Favorite crazy Evangelion theories

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:13 am

I don't even think that NTE states that Rei is a direct clone of Yui exactly, only that something similar looking came out of an attempt to extract Yui from Unit 01. This seems consistent across both cannons.

(....I think.)

Also, I do believe that Nerv IS backing up some form Rei's consciousness, but mainly for use in the dummy plug. (This is why Rei is seen in the tube so many times.) I'm sure they also become handy when they need a new Rei clone. I do agree that to say that they back up Rei's memories is a bit of a stretch, though, since Rei III doesn't remember things exactly like they way they happened to Rei II. Or, at least Rei III thinks differently from Rei II. (This also seems to happen in both of Anno's versions of Eva.)

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:21 am

View Original PostAngel wrote:Honestly? Two of the dumbest are:

#1: Rei is a clone of Yui. This conclusion is based entirely on the fact that they have similar haircuts and share a voice actress (who also does pen-pen). Never mind that they have totally different hair and eye colors and that there is absolutely nothing in canon to justify the idea that they're clones other than one hallucination by an Akagi.


And plenty of mother subtext for Rei, and Shinji connecting the dots rather explicitly, and the whole scene with Gendo, Rei, and Yui in EoE, and the Classified Information which tells us directly that Rei is a copy of Yui's flesh, and . . .

There's a mountain of evidence for this. It's confirmed by the creators of the show. Calling it a dumb conclusion ignores the show itself.

#2: Rei keeps dying and there is some kind of elaborate system for backing up her memories and retrieving the soul of Lilith and inserting it into her clone bodies so NERV can maintain the illusion that she never actually dies. There is absolutely no reason for NERV to do this, nor any evidence that they have the technological ability to do so. I agree with the idea that Rei was probably the test pilot of a contact experiment with Zerogouki that absorbed her soul, and NERV had to put Lilith's soul in her to keep her functioning. But that's about it.


Rei III would like a word with you. No matter how it was done it's undeniable that Rei has had three incarnations, and that each incarnation possessed the same soul (in whole or in part). Further, Rei III appears to have (eventually) acquired all of her predecessor's memories, and she definitely seems to remember what happened to Rei I (if her betrayal of Gendo is anything to go by). And beyond that we know that Seele (somehow) captured Adam's soul when Adam blew up during 2I, and that they (somehow) put it in the body of Kaworu (we also know Adam's soul somehow got transferred from the body of Kaworu to the GNR/Lilith/Adam entity in EoE, and that this happened before Rei's psychopomps went out and collected the souls of humanity).

I'm with you on the fact that fanwank tends to assume too much on this front, but denying the fact that souls were transferred is silly because that's spelled out in the show itself, as well as in various highly reliable supplementary materials. The how of it might be a matter of speculation, but the fact that Nerv somehow has the ability to do this is pretty much inarguable at this point since we have multiple instances on record of them doing exactly that.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby pwhodges » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:59 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I don't even think that NTE states that Rei is a direct clone of Yui exactly

Two translations of what Fuyutsuki says to Shinji (but I don't know if the Japanese specifies exactly what we mean by clone or not):

Various fansubs:
"... and only her data was left behind for the Ayanami series. The Ayanami Rei that you know is one of Yui-kun's clones."

Hong Kong release:
"...leaving only her data behind to become the Ayanami series. The Rei Ayanami you knew is one of the replicas of Yui."
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:08 pm

^ Ah, I see.

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:00 pm

Some of the dumbest conclusions drawn:

Misato shot Kaji.

Shinji is merely sobbing over Asuka in EoE (I initially thought this, bad auido and visuals, it was a bootleg copy)

Someone told me that they assumed that "Shinji's wish" at the end of EoE was to continually kill and resurrect Asuka over and over and over again into eternity...cuz that doesn't totally underscore large parts of what the story was trying to convey or anything....

Everyone went to Haven at the end of ep. 26 in NGE, what I thought happened when I first saw the series, but I was like 10 at the time, so yeah...

Gendo "murdered" Yui

The Angels are literal (as in the Bible as in actual real life Christianity/Judaism)

The Angels have pilots
FROM EVANGELION:
"Acts of Man are greater than acts of God!"

"I'm saying that I love you."

NOT FROM EVANGELION:
"You are excrement. You can change yourself into gold."

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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:40 pm

View Original PostSawItAtAge10 wrote:it was a bootleg copy
The Manga DVDs were already bad enough that "Shinji's staring at his hand again" didn't register as any more than that.
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Re: The dumbest conclusions

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Postby Angel » Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:40 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:And plenty of mother subtext for Rei, and Shinji connecting the dots rather explicitly, and the whole scene with Gendo, Rei, and Yui in EoE, and the Classified Information which tells us directly that Rei is a copy of Yui's flesh, and . . .

There's a mountain of evidence for this. It's confirmed by the creators of the show. Calling it a dumb conclusion ignores the show itself.



Rei III would like a word with you. No matter how it was done it's undeniable that Rei has had three incarnations, and that each incarnation possessed the same soul (in whole or in part). Further, Rei III appears to have (eventually) acquired all of her predecessor's memories, and she definitely seems to remember what happened to Rei I (if her betrayal of Gendo is anything to go by). And beyond that we know that Seele (somehow) captured Adam's soul when Adam blew up during 2I, and that they (somehow) put it in the body of Kaworu (we also know Adam's soul somehow got transferred from the body of Kaworu to the GNR/Lilith/Adam entity in EoE, and that this happened before Rei's psychopomps went out and collected the souls of humanity).

I'm with you on the fact that fanwank tends to assume too much on this front, but denying the fact that souls were transferred is silly because that's spelled out in the show itself, as well as in various highly reliable supplementary materials. The how of it might be a matter of speculation, but the fact that Nerv somehow has the ability to do this is pretty much inarguable at this point since we have multiple instances on record of them doing exactly that.


I'm not really interested in debating the matter, but to claim that either one of these things is "explicit" or "undeniable" is demonstrably false, and supplemental materials are Word of Dante, not Word of God.

Except, of course, for Rebuild.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:54 pm

View Original PostAngel wrote:I'm not really interested in debating the matter, but to claim that either one of these things is "explicit" or "undeniable" is demonstrably false, and supplemental materials are Word of Dante, not Word of God.


Well, no, that's not true, for the reasons I gave above. And the supplemental materials in question were penned by Anno, so they actually are Word of God as much as anything is.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Shamsiel-kun » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:56 pm

View Original PostIronEvangelion wrote:I once read a review that said Shinji and Unit 01 became the Devil when the eva awakened and rose out of the earth in EoE. Years later I watched EoE and wondered what the person who wrote the review was smoking.


Reminds me of the person who wrote that the "Alien 9" manga was an accurate depiction of what one may go through in their mind if they are repeatedly raped and sexually abused :rolleyes: , and who wiped away any suggestion that they were projecting their own very vocal and repeated history of being a rape-victim onto the manga by basically pulling the abuse equivalent of a Godwin. :facepalm: :cringe:


As for stupid theories, anything regarding the relationship between Christianity, the cross-shaped explosions, and 3I being the Apocalypse.

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Postby Sachi » Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:58 pm

View Original PostAngel wrote:I'm not really interested in debating the matter, but to claim that either one of these things is "explicit" or "undeniable" is demonstrably false, and supplemental materials are Word of Dante, not Word of God.

I really like the "I'm not gonna support my case at all, but I'm obviously right" position that you're taking here. In what ways are these conclusions demonstrably false? I don't mind if you don't accept them to be true, but given the huge amount of evidence simply within the show alone, I would love to see such a demonstration that proves these conclusions wrong.
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Postby Gob Hobblin » Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:56 pm

^

Yeah, there's...that all has been confirmed. It's not conclusions, Angel, it's more or less outright, stated fact.

Where did get the assumption that they weren't?
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Postby PurpleandRed » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:18 pm

People somehow think that these kids are adults and forget that they're only 13 and 14 and not yet considered so. And it's probably because of their tall bodies and mature looks.
Asuka, you're not going to have any children.

You don't care about Hikari anymore, Asuka?

I want somebody to kick Asuka's butt! She is stupid, vain, and cries like a spoiled brat! Is there a game where you can kick her butt?

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Postby Bagheera » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:25 pm

They are all less than five feet in height, so they are not tall. They are drawn as miniature adults rather than as actual children, though.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:30 pm

They don't exactly look mature, either: they're rail skinny, wear children's clothing (school uniforms and such), and their poses and behaviors don't mark them as adults.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Postby PurpleandRed » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:31 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:They are all less than five feet in height, so they are not tall. They are drawn as miniature adults rather than as actual children, though.


Asuka is over 5 feet. I don't know about the others, though. When I look at those pictures of them, they look pretty tall and have full body types.

They don't exactly look mature, either: they're rail skinny, wear children's clothing (school uniforms and such), and their poses and behaviors don't mark them as adults.


I mean in the face, not the bodies and behaviors.
Asuka, you're not going to have any children.

You don't care about Hikari anymore, Asuka?

I want somebody to kick Asuka's butt! She is stupid, vain, and cries like a spoiled brat! Is there a game where you can kick her butt?

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:34 pm

^

We have a thread discussing this here.

The estimate there is that Asuka MIGHT be 4'10". Based on observations and estimates, though, saying she is over five feet tall is kind of a stretch...no pun intended.

Consider that we KNOW Misato is 5'4" (her ID says so), and she is noticeably taller than Asuka.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
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Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

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Postby PurpleandRed » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:42 pm

View Original PostGob Hobblin wrote:^

We have a thread discussing this here.

The estimate there is that Asuka MIGHT be 4'10". Based on observations and estimates, though, saying she is over five feet tall is kind of a stretch...no pun intended.

Consider that we KNOW Misato is 5'4" (her ID says so), and she is noticeably taller than Asuka.


Wouldn't she be considered small at 4'10"? She's not old enough for her body look full enough to make her look taller. I saw at Crunchyroll she was 5'8" and 5'1" on MAL. Her height doesn't seem to be determined.
Asuka, you're not going to have any children.

You don't care about Hikari anymore, Asuka?

I want somebody to kick Asuka's butt! She is stupid, vain, and cries like a spoiled brat! Is there a game where you can kick her butt?

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:51 pm

Not in Japan: the average female height of a twenty year old in Japan is 5'2". Misato is therefore taller than the national average. So, Asuka is roughly the average height of a younger teen before her growth spurt. You can see they tried to give her a little bit of height over the other two kids (probably to emphasize that she is a foreigner), but she would most likely have more than two inches. That, of course, would depend upon what genes are most dominant from which parent.

Either way, just based upon what we know of Misato's height, versus Asuka's stature next to her, we know that the range is within the four foot and up scale, but not enough to go into the five foot scale.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

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Postby Sachi » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:56 pm

View Original PostPurpleandRed wrote:Wouldn't she be considered small at 4'10"? She's not old enough for her body look full enough to make her look taller. I saw at Crunchyroll she was 5'8" and 5'1" on MAL. Her height doesn't seem to be determined.

For her age and race, 4'10" is not short; I believe the average height of adult women with her ethnic background is 5'2"-5'6", so 4'10" is acceptable for a girl on the cusp of puberty.

5'8" is just demonstrably wrong, given that we know Misato's height of 5'4", and not to mention that 5'8" is tall!
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Postby PurpleandRed » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:03 pm

So, why are you guys not seeing that Asuka may be 5'1"? It has not said anywhere from what I seen that she was 4 feet. And I'm sure we shouldn't be judging peoples' height. uhh:
Asuka, you're not going to have any children.

You don't care about Hikari anymore, Asuka?

I want somebody to kick Asuka's butt! She is stupid, vain, and cries like a spoiled brat! Is there a game where you can kick her butt?


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