Avatar: Legend of Korra

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Postby Bagheera » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:59 pm

Hey, it's not like I'm panning the show. It takes a lot to get me to marathon a 50+ ep series in a week's time, and LoK ultimately delivered in that regard. It just had problems, that's all.

But I did leave out the most important point in my review above: Korra is fucking awesome. I think my issues with the rest of the cast all stem from the fact that no one else can measure up to her level of cool. She's just a joy to watch, start to finish.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:03 pm

I’m waiting until after I read the graphic novel series before watching this show. Might as well finish the story with one set of characters before starting another.

I’ve heard very mixed things about LoK, and by the discussion being had, there’s probably good reason for it. But, hey. If I could gag through witnessing the result of Nadia’s troubled production woes, watching this show should be a walk in the park.

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Postby Ray » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:52 pm

And as for your opinion on the villains Bags. . . well. It probably wont change your opinion. But.

Image

Each main Legend of Korra villain represents a different political ideology. Even the more minor villains like Varrick (who is not always necessarily a villain) and the Earth Queen represent ideologies as well: Laissez Faire Capitalism and Absolute Monarchy, respectively

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:02 am

View Original PostRay wrote:And as for your opinion on the villains Bags. . . well. It probably wont change your opinion. But.


Yeah, that's what bugs me about them. Too simplistic, and not enough heavy lifting to justify their extremism. But my take on them isn't as harsh as I make it sound, since I actually like all of them a fair bit. I just found myself rolling my eyes a lot whenever they had any amount of time onscreen.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
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Postby Trajan » Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:26 pm

Amon was amazing (although a lot of that might just be Steve Blum) and he's one of the few PG show villains that exuded a genuine sense of menace. Plus, he had sympathetic motives even when taking into account his real backstory and he had style.

Unalaq was boring. Basically a glorified version of the Mouth of Sauron. Plus the whole dumbed down Taoism thing with turning Vaatu into some ancient evil archetype, just...no. Plus he was so obviously a villain that the series taking its time in introducing him as such was really tiresome.

Zaheer was excellent. Complex and I like my villains to have a philosophical outlook on things that isn't just "how much evil can I do today?" or "how much power can I grab today" makes them much more interesting.

Kuvira was basically Ozai except with an Earth-bending fascist twist. Pretty much something I've already seen before. She was executed well though which is more than can be said for Unalaq.

So two great villains, one decent one, and one boring and cliche one. Its a net win as far as villains are concerned.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:46 pm

I'd have to disagree there, Trajan.

Amon had style, but his motivation was bullshit. Yes, Korra wound up being a perfect example of what he was talking about, but for the most part we rarely see benders oppressing anyone and people in the setting seem to love the shit out of them. It was a manufactured conflict with no real teeth to it. Also, "Equalists" is a really stupid name.

Unalaq was the only villain who actually had a legit point, right before he went full-bore cartoon villain for no discernible reason. He would have been amazing if he'd just gone the "you're doing it wrong and the world is fucked up, and even though I've proven this is so you keep on doing it!" Follow that with a legit invasion with some totalitarian bits (because they're necessary since people won't do what actually needs to be done to fix things) and it would've worked great.

Zaheer oozed style and he gets points for actually caring about his people, but unfortunately his goals are caricature anarchism. If you take out all the leaders, how does shit get done? It's stupid, and it's why Communism never managed to work -- you start with overthrowing your leaders, great, and then you need to transfer control of everything to the people, and then profit! But that middle part is the tricky bit, both because the people in charge of the revolution don't want to relinquish power and because they legitimately don't know how to transfer that control in a way that will still ensure essential services are maintained.

Kuvira was actually the best of the lot IMO, since she came to her position in a very believable way and had very good reasons for doing what she did. But unfortunately she crossed the moral event horizon (again for no good reason, the common theme marring all of these villains) and started going after targets that could only make things terrible for her country and then started up with the doomsday weapons and the giant robots. Obviously, looking at a descent into fascism by a legit well-intentioned extremist would be a little heavy for a kids' show, but the unfulfilled potential is more keenly felt here than in any other case IMO.

That's my take, anyway.
Last edited by Bagheera on Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
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Postby Ray » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:12 pm

Personally, i wish they had kept Amon a non bender. The whole reason they didn't was because Bryan and Mike weren't sure if they were going to get one than more season so they needed a way to end Amon and the Equalist storyline, and they couldn't find a way to do it Aside from making him a big ol hypocrite.

I loved the character of Amon. He was mysterious, he was interesting, he was tragic, he was fighting for a righteous cause even if he was going to violent extremes to see it through. I had such high hopes for Amon! I was watching the first ten episodes saying, “Brilliant! Finally, a villain that believes he is doing what is right! A villain who thinks he is the Good guy! Finally a Non bender that actually poses a threat to benders!”

And then I found out he was a waterbender. No spirit powers, he chi blocks through blood bending. No burns, he wears makeup. He doesn’t believe in equality, he just want’s to sway the people to his cause so he can be just like his mobster daddy.

Kind've like the Mandarin in Iron Man 3, I felt cheated. But it was understandable, given they didn't want the series to end with a lack of Closure.

I would have made so Amon was still Tarloks brother,but make it so that Amon was actually a non-bender who got his powers from an encounter in the spirit world following him almost being killed by one of Yakone's old rivals, which would have tied into Book 2's plot involving the spirit world.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
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Postby Trajan » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:59 pm

The whole Fire Nation Invasion plus Amon's father being the Avatar equivalent of a Triad boss is enough for me to say there's a fair bit of benders oppressing ordinary citizens going on there. Amon may be a hypocrite but he's also filled with self-loathing and hated his father which is what started his quest in the first place (at least from my interpretation) so that doesn't bother me so much. Again, I'm willing to forgive a lot if there's style and one thing can't be denied: Amon had style.

Equalists is a pretty stupid name though, the writers probably couldn't think of anything better so they just stuck with calling them Taiping Rebels by another name.

As for Zaheer's anarchism not making sense, well, it's a kid's show they're not going to delve into some political thesis on the failings on anarchism as a philosophy. You've got to consider the fact that the culture Zaheer admires, the Air Nomads, are basically anarchist in that there is almost no central authority. Anarchism may be a stupid philosophy but there are plenty of people out there who subscribe to it especially if you're dealing with oppressive governments like what the Earth Kingdom turned into.

Anyways, I'd love to debate this further but I've got work and stuff to do. Another time maybe.
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Postby Bagheera » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:20 pm

View Original PostTrajan wrote:The whole Fire Nation Invasion plus Amon's father being the Avatar equivalent of a Triad boss is enough for me to say there's a fair bit of benders oppressing ordinary citizens going on there. Amon may be a hypocrite but he's also filled with self-loathing and hated his father which is what started his quest in the first place (at least from my interpretation) so that doesn't bother me so much. Again, I'm willing to forgive a lot if there's style and one thing can't be denied: Amon had style.


I don't think the Fire Nation's on point there, as they were invited to help quell a military insurrection. Coming to an ally's aid isn't exactly oppression. But I'm with you on Amon's dad, it's just . . . his turn to evil was so arbitrary. I mean, his dad wanted his brother to use bloodbending on him, his brother refused, and Amon defended him against his dad. And then, after this, he leaves, never to return, and goes hardcore evil. What the hell? Why? If his father had retained his bending and abused the fuck out of his non-bending sons I could see it working, but he only abused them after he'd lost his bending, and when his sons had their bending! If anything his father and his upbringing are the perfect example of why his stated goals are bullshit, and yet they're supposed to be motivation. It doesn't make a lick of sense.

Also, don't forget that the president, theoretically the most powerful man in the setting, is a non-bender. That kinda says something IMO.

As for Zaheer's anarchism not making sense, well, it's a kid's show they're not going to delve into some political thesis on the failings on anarchism as a philosophy. You've got to consider the fact that the culture Zaheer admires, the Air Nomads, are basically anarchist in that there is almost no central authority. Anarchism may be a stupid philosophy but there are plenty of people out there who subscribe to it especially if you're dealing with oppressive governments like what the Earth Kingdom turned into.


As I said I don't exactly expect a political treatise out of a kids' show, but OTOH it wouldn't be that hard to have Zaheer limit himself to corrupt leaders. It might have been interesting to have him escape at the end of Season Three, for example, and work against Kuvira in Season Four -- he'd always have to stay one step ahead of both Kuvira and Korra, but he'd be fighting the good fight all the while. He'd just be the Punisher to Korra's Batman.

On an unrelated note, crack ship for LoK: Korra and Kuvira. There's some powerful chemistry there, and I say Korra and a reformed Kuvira would rock on toast. Madness, I know, but I regret nothing!
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Ray » Fri May 22, 2015 3:00 pm

Sad news folks, Bryan and Mike have parted ways to work on separate projects following the end of Korra.

http://www.hypable.com/the-legend-of-korra-co-creators-split/

The news is bittersweet for fans, who fondly gave Konietzko and DiMartino the portmanteau “Bryke” years ago. The creative team has been together for more than ten years, inventing and bringing to life the rich world of bending, elemental nations, and the Avatar.

But though DiMartino and Konietzko are no longer working together, the co-creators continue to support each others’ creative work. And both halves of “Bryke” confirm that they are open to renewing their partnership in the future.

If that happens however, the subject of their work will not be set in the Avatar universe. When The Legend of Korra concluded in December, Konietzko and DiMartino confirmed that their work in the world they created has come to an end.

“We’re all tired and burnt out,” the co-creators admitted. “We need to move on and take that next step.”


Edit:

Five Years after the fact, and M Night Shyamalan is still stuck up his own backside about how people just 'didn't get' his Last Airbender movie

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/05/22/m-night-shyamalan-defends-his-avatar-the-last-airbender-adaptation?utm_campaign=ign+main+twitter&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
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Postby Rosenakahara » Fri May 22, 2015 3:18 pm

Shyamalan..........just dont.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat May 23, 2015 1:08 am

With how entertainment works nowadays I don't believe a popular universe is ever done. Star Wars, Batman, Marvel & dozens of other series have never really gone. Anything can be rebooted. If Bryan Konietzko or Mike DiMartino ever hit hard times - which they will, no one gets through this industry without a down point - it'll be pretty hard not to avoid the juicy financial carrot that is a new Avatar series. But, if the creators feel it's over then I'm okay with that.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat May 23, 2015 8:49 am

I think it's better that they know when to fold 'em rather than risking contracting sequelitis.

View Original PostRay wrote:Edit:

Five Years after the fact, and M Night Shyamalan is still stuck up his own backside about how people just 'didn't get' his Last Airbender movie

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/05/22/m-night-shyamalan-defends-his-avatar-the-last-airbender-adaptation?utm_campaign=ign+main+twitter&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social


The most ridiculous part is that he tries to create false dichotomy between a children's movie and an adult, sexualised version which attracts adult and child audiences by virtue of sex appeal (with unnecessary references to Transformers and Megan Fox for some reason) which completely goes against the TV show's ability to portray mature and complex themes like philosophy, war and political intrigue without dumbing it down. I also find it hilarious that he tries to claim he was presenting 'Eastern mysticism in a ten year old's vernacular' when the film itself has a very very white cast and very very little actual spiritualism or references to Eastern culture in it.

I'm sure this has been said before, but I'm pretty sure M Night never actually watched Avatar himself before directing the film and still hasn't seen it 5 years later.
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Postby Chuckman » Sat May 23, 2015 12:52 pm

He could have cast porn stars to use very slow moving superpowers and awkwardly blurt out bad dialogue and the movie would still have bombed.

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Postby Ray » Sun May 24, 2015 10:20 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote: If Bryan Konietzko or Mike DiMartino ever hit hard times - which they will, no one gets through this industry without a down point - it'll be pretty hard not to avoid the juicy financial carrot that is a new Avatar series.


Paramount at this point wants nothing to do with the franchise. They don't know how to market it on their network alongside the likes of Spongebob and Sanjay and Craig. They don't want another film because of the backlash they faced because of both M. Night and The Racebending controversy. They can't market an Airbender/Korra film to White America with Asian/Native American actors, they can't get good publicity for the film if they cast white actors. Then there's the whole Chinese Market, which would not support a Last Airbender movie if it followed the show more closely.

Then there's the whole problem with corruption and intra-company politics that Paramount is dealing with right now. Long story short, the Airbender/Korrra Franchise was just an innocent pawn sacrificed to get an edge in the battle that is Paramount's Game Of Corporate Thrones.

Bryan and Mike themselves have said that 'there is a lot of stuff the happened behind the scenes we can't talk about.' but that it would make 'great subject matter for a documentary".
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Postby Defectron » Sun May 24, 2015 10:45 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:Sad news folks, Bryan and Mike have parted ways to work on separate projects following the end of Korra.

http://www.hypable.com/the-legend-of-korra-co-creators-split/



Edit:

Five Years after the fact, and M Night Shyamalan is still stuck up his own backside about how people just 'didn't get' his Last Airbender movie

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/05/22/m-night-shyamalan-defends-his-avatar-the-last-airbender-adaptation?utm_campaign=ign+main+twitter&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social


So shyamalan is essentially saying the movie failed because he tried to make it not like transformers? Just because the transformers franchise is mostly terrible, doesn't mean you can't make something just as bad that isn't like transformers, that's not how things work. :fuyu_facepalm:
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Mon May 25, 2015 12:06 am

^Well, Transformers references aside, he's basically saying the film failed because he didn't put tits in it to attract teenagers and the older audience. Which is ridiculous because there's almost zero fanservice in the actual series aside from some implied innuendo.

View Original PostRay wrote:Paramount at this point wants nothing to do with the franchise. They don't know how to market it on their network alongside the likes of Spongebob and Sanjay and Craig. They don't want another film because of the backlash they faced because of both M. Night and The Racebending controversy. They can't market an Airbender/Korra film to White America with Asian/Native American actors, they can't get good publicity for the film if they cast white actors. Then there's the whole Chinese Market, which would not support a Last Airbender movie if it followed the show more closely.

Then there's the whole problem with corruption and intra-company politics that Paramount is dealing with right now. Long story short, the Airbender/Korrra Franchise was just an innocent pawn sacrificed to get an edge in the battle that is Paramount's Game Of Corporate Thrones.

Bryan and Mike themselves have said that 'there is a lot of stuff the happened behind the scenes we can't talk about.' but that it would make 'great subject matter for a documentary".


Well, frankly I am glad that the TV series will remain an untouched masterwork for now rather than letting some other grubby-handed wretch walk all over it.
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Postby Ray » Tue May 26, 2015 2:54 pm

Grey Delisle, the voice of Azula and Ming-Hua is doing a Reddit AMA!

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3789vc/i_am_voice_actress_grey_delislegriffin_you_might/

EDIT:Augusto Barranco A Concept Artist Who worked on The Last Airbender movie. Published some photos of props that never got any screentime. For Better or worse.

He says he wishes they could've had another shot to do the film right. But again, doubtful Paramount will anytime soon.

I don't blame Augusto for the film, an artist needs clients to pay the bills. Some clients are better for your Resume than others.

SPOILER: Show

Image

Image
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
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Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
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Postby Rosenakahara » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:32 am

So Bryan was on a panel recently and he had this to say:
SPOILER: Show
"It’s funny there are people who are so attached to the original series and it’s funny because when they confront us and they write us critical things like they’ll write us a little fan letter like… Mike and I remember during Avatar how people would be like ‘I don’t like this, and kind of whining about every little thing in the show, and really mad about how a season finale would end, and ‘I can’t believe you’d put the characters through that,’ and now that years have been removed from that, the feedback we get now about Avatar is like, ‘It’s perfect, there is nothing wrong with it, and every moment of it is perfect,’ and I don’t think every moment is perfect, I have tons of problems throughout the series, but I love it and I’m proud of it. And then with Korra they’re nitpicking every little thing and there’s a lot of comparing of Korra to, not just the shows, but comparing the character of Korra to Aang like ‘Aang was such a sweet, gentle soul, and Korra is just, she’s awful!’ …I always think back at New York Comic Con, it was at a point early in Book 2 where Korra was kind of going off the rails, and I remember Mike and the writers really wanted this civil war, she’s gonna take it very personally and it’s gonna cloud her judgement, and she’s not making good decisions. And people really didn’t like it, and I remember being interviewed in New York and they were like, ‘People hate Korra… so why did you do it?’ And I was like wow, and like, Aang was like going on a rampage in the middle of the desert beating people up because someone took his bison.
— BRYAN KONIETZKO TELLING IT LIKE IT IS, on the Nerdist Writers Panel Podcast (via bigspoonkorra)
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The Twelve Kingdoms discussion thread

Ray
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Postby Ray » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:18 pm

Mah Night Shyamalan still wants to make Last Airbender 2.

http://www.craveonline.com/culture/894749-m-night-shyamalan-will-return-last-airbender-2

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