Avatar: Legend of Korra

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Postby xanderkh » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:27 pm

Man, maintaining a relationship is a fickle thing in the Avatar universe. :tongue:
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:58 am

Little funny fanart, from the same guy that did the "double entendre Iroh" comics:
SPOILER: Show
Image

Metalbent homing bullets, the rest of the world is fucked!

Joke aside, that made me realize that if there will be an eventual continuation to the Avatar franchise, it'll be set in the future, for a simple reason: lasers.
Firearms (or even weapons functioning like firearms even if they don't looks like them) seems to be a big no-no for Nick, and while it was possible to circumvent that with bending, and non-benders with bladed weapons, bludgeons, electrical gauntlets and ultimately a mega spiritual plasma cannon thing as the local equivalent of the nuke, it reached its limit with Season 4 with the Earth Empire army where all the shots of their army fighting only had metalbenders, earthbenders and mecha-suits while the non-bender troops (they are those who don't have their face covered) don't even have weapons, since swords and lances would look retarded with their wehrmacht-themed uniforms.

But on the other hand, laser guns seems okay, so for me it's clear: if there's a new franchise, it'll be with flying cars, supersonic planes and lasers!
Last edited by ElMariachi on Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:49 am

^Well, I'd say Korra (or more likely Avatar state Korra) could have bent all the bullets back the way they came and then the Earth Empire would be fucked.

Even the big energy cannon got screwed over through Energybending.
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀

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Now I know that it's true
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And I'm nothing like you

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Postby xanderkh » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:59 am

^
If physics are just like our world as it is in the avatar world, THAT may be easier said than done.

Korra need to have AMAZING reflexes to "catch" bullets in midair before they reach her, especially if she was caught off guard by a lonely sniper.

It's like in Bioshock where when you had the "Telekinesis" plasmid. You could manipulate and catch objects with ease if they were thrown towards you, but you couldn't just "catch" bullets cause they moved simply too fast for your reflexes to handle.
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera

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Postby Ray » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:35 am

My idea for a third series would be set in a retro-futuristic 1960's sci-fi setting, sort've the natural extension of the Steampunk-1920's. Inspired by Osamu Tezuka and the first few James Bond Films.

Without Bryan and/or Mike at the helm. . . can we expect anything from Nick that's even halfway decent? I'd say the best case scenario we can hope for at this point is something like 'Teen Titan's Go' a Chibi comedy series that can milk some more money out of the series and characters without adding onto it, altering, or demeaning the ending of either series. Otherwise, without them or someone else who loves and understands the series and mythos at the helm, if there is another series. Be it a prequel or a sequel. It'd likely be terrible, and I mean terrible. I'm talking Alien Resurrection level terrible. I'm talking Shyamalan level terrible. Only this time it'd be canon!


. . . and there is the fact that at Nickelodeon, the Inmates are the ones running the asylum. Did you know that Nickelodeon cut the budget for the episode around the same time Bryan and Mike needed around the time Bryan condemned the movie in a Tumblr post talking about skintone in Legend Of Korra? Coincidence? I think NOT!

Nick invested a lot in that failure of a movie, and didn't have much to show for it. The whole reason they greenlit Korra was to capitalize on the publicity the movie would give it. . . which backfired horribly when the movie underperformed and was nuked by the critics. The executives in Viacom are very petty, and don't take to well to being called out on their failures, especially by the people in their employ. They're as much to blame for the film failing and Korra underperforming as Shyamhammer, but they'll never admit it.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Postby ElMariachi » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:29 am

^
Well, Mike and Bryan definitively had an insane talent, but they aren't the only talented people in the world, other people could take the torch so to speak, and even if they aren't directors because they are working on something else, they can be hired as consultants.
Although after seeing how much Nick screwed with them at every turn, frankly I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to have anything to do with them anymore.


View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:^Well, I'd say Korra (or more likely Avatar state Korra) could have bent all the bullets back the way they came and then the Earth Empire would be fucked.

Even the big energy cannon got screwed over through Energybending.

The avatar isn't the only force of the world (although the strongest yes), for the rest of the world that aren't named Toph firearms would be a real problem, and which military leader wouldn't research of a way to make their regular non-bender troops as deadly as their bender counterparts?
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby xanderkh » Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:46 pm

Guess who just won their LATEST edition of Death Battle of Gaara vs. Toph?

Oh man, I can just hear the butthurts now...... :heehee:
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera

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Postby Rosenakahara » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:05 pm

GREATEST EARTHBENDER THERE IS!
"She had better march back here and try again! I only send people off on my terms! ...Or in a casket."
I don't need a scabbard to sheathe my mind
What is going on is a concerted effort from anti-progressives to silence anyone who disagrees with them.-Bagheera 2016
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Postby ElMariachi » Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:49 pm

That was kind of a non-brainer, although canonically Toph has difficulties in bending sand.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby xanderkh » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:28 pm

^
And considering Gaara's main defense is COATING himself in SAND, it's pretty much a bet who's gonna come out alive!
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera

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Postby Bagheera » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:26 pm

So, marathoned this over the past week. Season one last Saturday, season two Sunday, seasons three and four over the course of last week. My thoughts:

  • Korrasami is bullshit. It's bullshit for the same reason "Dumbledore was gay" is bullshit: WoG is meaningless if the relationship isn't established in the show. I read a Salon.com article that said LoK was groundbreaking in this regard, and it actually had the gall to compare it favorably to Sailor Moon. Sailor Moon! You know, the show with actual dykes, including one who's a tomboy and a crossdresser, and who's in a relationship that is recognized by the rest of the cast and and which involves raising a child together. And yet that wasn't groundbreaking, while the kinda-sorta-not-really-yuri bullshit in LoK is. What. The fuck. Ever. LoK wasn't sanitized like SM was, so I guess the network gets minor props for that, but srsly people, this isn't the milestone you're making it out to be. It's a couple of girls going on a road trip and the creators saying "no really, that's meaningful!" But it's not. It's them throwing the LGBTQ community a bone and congratulating themselves for being "progressive" even though they don't have the stones to actually do it. I say again, what. The fuck. Ever. When you go the SM route you'll actually be progressive, but until then you're just manipulating a minority group that's so used to being ignored they'll snap up anything that even looks like recognition.

  • Lin Beifong is best character, and if you want to pair Korra with anyone it should be her.

    :lol:

    Okay, even I can't take that seriously. I mean, this is an industry that can't even manage gay relationships, so gay May/December (more like March/September, but whatevs) relationships are out of the question. But even so, Lin brings so much more to the table than . . . anyone, really. Physically she's the only one who even comes close to matching the Avatar, and she's the only one who got anything close to the same degree of character development over the course of the show. And her moments of awesome, holy hell! Between defending the family of the man who abandoned her, losing her bending and taking it in stride, her resignation and reinstatement, her development in Season 4 . . . only Korra got the attention she did throughout the show, and even that wasn't nearly as nuanced. Say what you will about the show's writing, but Lin Beifong knocked it out of the park just by showing up. And, even better, she wasn't defined by her attachments. She was never in a relationship with anybody, which means we always had to take her on her own merits. And damned if she didn't measure up, every single time. Go Lin!

  • Somewhat related to the previous point: this show gets major props from me for its treatment of adults. I don't mean 20/30-somethings there, and nor do I mean "revered elders"; both of these are stock adult characters for shows on both sides of the pond, and both highlight a significant absence in modern storytelling: actual, established adults. I'm talking 40/50-somethings, people who are masters of their craft and yet not quite revered elders, people who aren't sexy or cool but are nonetheless the foundation of society. They are the masters and commanders, the bosses and the savants, and they are habitually ignored in modern media. But not so here! Between Tenzin, Lin, Suzin, Bumi, Kya, and Tonraq LoK represents this group beautifully. I've already noted Lin's accomplishments, but in addition to that Tenzin has kicked ass on a number of occasions (his performance during the siege of Air Temple Island during Season three is particularly noteworthy), and Kya held her own against one of the most powerful benders in existence. Meanwhile Tonraq went toe to toe against the villain of the season on more than one occasion, and this while being a concerned yet not overbearing parent to Korra! It is exceedingly rare to see mature adults handled with this amount of nuance and given their due, but LoK regularly succeeds brilliantly in this regard. I give it far more credit for that than anything else.

  • The above said: my gods man, the writing. How could a show with such nuanced adult characters have such terrible villains? How could it have such a bland supporting cast? Mako? Boring. Asami? Boring. Bolin? Annoying and boring. Varrick? Nails on chalkboard and boring. Kill me now! And those villains . . . holy fuck, man. Every one of them is painful because in each and every case they could have been developed as well-intentioned extremists, and yet they unilaterally went the cartoonish villainy route because . . . reasons! This is most painful with Kuvira, who came closest to the mark and yet still fell short.

    On another writing issue: was I the only one who felt like the characters were often telling the GM what they were gonna do? I mean, yes, communication is important (it's critical, in fact), but the whole "I'm gonna do this" and "I'm gonna do that" thing is just clumsy as fuck. It was the very essence of lame exposition, and it was exceedingly painful to watch.

  • Zhu Li, or "Why the fuck is this show so fucking schizophrenic?": Zhu Li's an interesting case. On the one hand she's stuck on Varrick (no accounting for taste, amirite?). On the other she abandons an abusive relationship, embraces another, rebels, gets rescued, goes back to her former paramour, and demands equal treatment. The show ends on a good note for her (I guess . . . ), but it just highlights the insanity that surrounds her: why is the rest of the cast so boring? How did she snag the good writers while the villains scored the cheap heat? Between her and Lin the unevenness of the writing is simply baffling.

  • I am happy enough that Bolin wound up with Opal, but I am sad that Eska (and Desna, I suppose) didn't get more screentime. Because, let's be honest, they were magnificent. It would have been cool to see Eska explored as a real character rather than as a caricature, but ah well. Such is life.

So, yeah. Those are my thoughts. Hopefully they are useful to someone, but if not just toss them in lava and be done with it.
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Postby Rosenakahara » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:12 pm

You are entitled to your opinion, but the opinion that asami and bolin are boring is bullshit and varrick is amazing, this is also my opinion.

The only villain that went cartoonish was unavaatu, kuvira was one of the weaker ones in terms of what we were shown as to how she got there but overall still a pretty decent villain.

And bags........about korrasami? sorry but no that relationship was one of the most realistically built i have seen in a show in a loooooooong fucking time, there wasn't any massive explosion of confession like in most romance stories or hell even the shitty season 1 Makorra thing, instead it built a strong foundation of friendship and worked its way up from there, there are little touches all over the places that are not very hard to spot this was not a last minute change it was coming for a while, this has been analysed over and over so i wont bother continuing and if you want a better explanation i will link to you some of the posts on this.
And i don't think you understand the massive differences between a Japanese childrens network and an american one.

It takes alex hirsch forever to talk with the upper management just because a few of his jokes may be considered slightly non kid-friendly, american networks are all about dat censorship so even getting this through is a lot, of course that varies because then you have steven universe throwing lesbians at you and they dont have as much upper management backlash.
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Postby Bagheera » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:54 pm

View Original PostRosenakahara wrote:You are entitled to your opinion, but the opinion that asami and bolin are boring is bullshit and varrick is amazing, this is also my opinion.


The only characters under the age of fifty in LoK who are worth a damn are Korra and Jinora. Tarrlok gets an honorable mention on account of his exit, but that's about it.

The only villain that went cartoonish was unavaatu, kuvira was one of the weaker ones in terms of what we were shown as to how she got there but overall still a pretty decent villain.


Oh, c'mon. Amon even went the full mask route. And Kuvira and Unalaq were the only ones who had a rationale for being where they were, with Kuvira being the only one with any semblance of a sensible motivation. The others clearly saw that moral event horizon and leapt across it with gusto, with no discernible motivation for doing so.

This was particularly annoying with season three's villains, who were fairly nuanced otherwise. "We'll portray you as real people, but cast you as villains because REASONS!" Argh.

And bags........about korrasami? sorry but no that relationship was one of the most realistically built i have seen in a show in a loooooooong fucking time,


It wasn't built. Hence my complaint.

And i don't think you understand the massive differences between a Japanese childrens network and an american one.


I understand the differences. I just think the latter sucks, and that LoK doesn't amount to progress in the latter case. I'd be delighted if I was wrong, but I don't think that's true.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Ray » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:27 am

Hey enough with this sour angry mood!

Here is something to make you happy!

SPOILER: Show

Image
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Postby Rosenakahara » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:26 am

welp time to go through my tumblr i need to bring up all those analysing posts again, which is fine bags if you don't want to read them but don't claim it wasn't built, that just makes it look like you didn't pay attention:
well here is a strictly korrasami look

a look at seasons 1-4

clarification on the seasons 3-4 part

asami snapping at korra

mind you i don't agree with every line here but for the most part i think its on point.
"She had better march back here and try again! I only send people off on my terms! ...Or in a casket."
I don't need a scabbard to sheathe my mind
What is going on is a concerted effort from anti-progressives to silence anyone who disagrees with them.-Bagheera 2016
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Postby Gus Hanson » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:06 pm

Reading all this makes me glad that I am not the only one who was disappointed at the Korrasami finale. It just was never properly developed enough for me to believe in it. Adding to this the fact that I SO wanted Mako and Korra to get back together by series' end just didn't do right by me.

Part of me still holds out hope for a continuation of the show perhaps on some other network where issues like censorship won't control decisions made. Netflix maybe...
And so Javert, you see it's true. This man bears no more guilt than you! Who am I? TWO-FOUR-SIX-OH-OOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!! - Jean Valjean (Les Miserables)

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:38 pm

I wasn't personally the biggest fan of Korrasmi either. It felt really underdeveloped & despite what the writers have said otherwise it comes across as something they tossed in at the last minute. It was a romance forged less by writers having a solid idea of where the characters are going or even through natural discovery but comes across more as a late game "Wouldn't it be fun if..." scenario. I personally feel 90% of the logistics of how Korrasami came to be has been created on nerd Tumblr accounts.

Still, as an open bisexual I'm proud they did go that route, that they didn't play by the usual conventions & didn't just introduce a "Strong New Male Protagonist" for Korra to hook up with in the final season. I honestly feel the right way for the story to end would be Korra confident in herself as an individual & not need a partner to give her agency BUT if they had to end it with her getting involved with someone I'm happy they went the route they did. I also do appreciate the insinuation that if Korra is gay or bi it was something she came to learn about herself through action & reaction. She didn't just wake up & go "I'm gay" but rather through experience learned what she didn't like & what she secretly wanted.

I just personally wish that if Korrasami had always been their endgame that the writers had made it a thing much earlier. Korra & Asami didn't need to be shown going down on each other - that's apparently what Tumblr & DeviantArt is for it seems - but maybe half way through the final season they could have just had them become an official couple & be done with it. Good writing can circumvent almost all ridiculous standards & limitations a network could have. The way it is now Korrasami does feel like something the writers yell right as they walk out the door.

So I love what Korrasmi represents & I'm glad it's a thing BUT in regards to the narrative that is told over the course of four season it's underdeveloped & comes across mostly as an afterthought in the writing process.

Of course in concern to American cartoons & queer relationships Steven Universe has already made Korra irrelevant in my eyes. That show is open & proud.

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Postby Rosenakahara » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:46 pm

I would argue against the sudden tide of "it was actually done really terribly".......but even if i provided all the evidence in the world as to how that isn't true that wouldn't change a damn thing, this happens a short time after pretty much every show has ended so i find a lack of caring.

Plus i have already laid out some evidence in my previous post, korra is awesome, korrasami is amazing and basically: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgzGwKwLmgM[/url]
"She had better march back here and try again! I only send people off on my terms! ...Or in a casket."
I don't need a scabbard to sheathe my mind
What is going on is a concerted effort from anti-progressives to silence anyone who disagrees with them.-Bagheera 2016
The Twelve Kingdoms discussion thread

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Postby Bagheera » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:56 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:So I love what Korrasmi represents & I'm glad it's a thing BUT in regards to the narrative that is told over the course of four season it's underdeveloped & comes across mostly as an afterthought in the writing process.


My position in a nutshell, yes.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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Ray
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Postby Ray » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:44 pm

Korra is a bit all over the place in tone I'll admit that.

But you need to realize Bags. Korra had a very VERY troubled production. It's a miracle the series lasted as long as it did and actually got an ending that had some actual closure to it instead of being shut down at the height of it's popularity like other kids shows in the same vein (Gargoyles, WITCH, Young Justice).

There's a lot more to it than I can summarize here. But basically, the head of Nickelodeon Animation who greenlit Korra's first season (her name escapes me right now) EDIT: Judy McGrath wanted to make the series the company's flagship show, even optioning an animated movie if the series was a success. However, Nick's parent companies Paramount and Viacom (particularly a CEO named Rob Moore) didn't like the direction she wanted to take the network, so they fired her and replaced her with someone who was more in line with the companies interests. They wanted to outright cancel the series because it was out of place with the more kid friendly 'Spongebob demographic' direction they wanted to take the network, but before she left, probably as an FU to the company, she arranged the greenlighting of three more seasons renegotiating Bryan and Mikes contract allowing them four seasons.

So Nick still produced Korra. But they snubbed them by refusing to advertise it, and when the numbers came in below average because noone knew the show was on, they slashed their budget and made the show an internet exclusive.

A lot more crap went on behind the scenes, there was a lot of drama surrounding the future of the franchise following the failure of The Live Action film which they planned to make into a franchise, there was also the Racebending controversy about the cast for the film, Bryan made a controversial tumblr post condemning the movie (which may or may not have resulting in them losing the budget for an episode).

Really, it's a miracle we got something as good as we got despite the Network mishandling and abuse.
Last edited by Ray on Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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