Why does Eva and its fanbase have such a bad...[reputation?]
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- CyberXIII
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Why does Eva and its fanbase have such a bad...[reputation?]
reputation?
It seems that everywhere I go, someone's whining worse than the cast did about ANYTHING.
Either they're whining about how the series was so incomprehensible (evidently they only saw the ending), the cast was whiny, or other such crap.
How did this get started?
It seems that everywhere I go, someone's whining worse than the cast did about ANYTHING.
Either they're whining about how the series was so incomprehensible (evidently they only saw the ending), the cast was whiny, or other such crap.
How did this get started?
"Crapsack worlds and anti heroes have their place. Sometimes, they are very necessary. But an endless diet of dreary cyberpunk and dark fantasy won't do us any more favors than an endless feast of glurge. I'd argue that the cynical nature of these really hurt our ability to hope and work for better. It gets us to accept the hopelessness and jaded outlook of things as 'That's the way it is. I can't change it,' and stops us from fighting when we NEED to fight."
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I am ask-shinji-ikari on tumblr.com. Feel free to ask me questions!
- Killer Bee
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We're all lunatics, that's why.
Isn't every fanbase like that, though?
...and by fanbase, we're talking about the types of fans who post on Internet forums, right?
...and by fanbase, we're talking about the types of fans who post on Internet forums, right?
- Joseph the PRPD
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Re: Why does Eva and its fanbase have such a bad...
You'll find this anywhere on the net. It's no big deal.
They're people like that for every series, movie, fanbase, etc.
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- esselfortium
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I sometimes get the impression that there's actually some other Evangelion TV series that other people saw, in which Rei became a giant goddess of death sometime around episode 2 and the remaining episodes were spent with all the characters floating lifelessly in a black void contemplating the nature of existence, because I'm left wondering the same thing you are.
In lieu of the actual understanding that continues to elude me, I'm just going to blame EGF.
In lieu of the actual understanding that continues to elude me, I'm just going to blame EGF.
Last edited by esselfortium on Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As a show designed, on some level, to frustrate expectations...
That's my theory, at least. A lot of people (according to scientific studies) feel that the show "makes no sense". I don't know, but I watched the thing quite inebriated and managed to piece it all together, but then, apparently I watch things with a ravenous intensity.
Is that it then? Do all Eva fans watch things with a ravenous intensity?
Some people (surveys say) didn't like how whiny the dub could come across. I liked some characters better when I finally saw the show with subtitles.
Also, maybe some people have a thing against "gingers" and/or Germans, or half-Germans. Asuka does happen to represent the bloodlines of the two chief Axis powers, which might ruin the entire show for some. Gendo's gloves aren't that fashionable. He has a funny beard. Rei's hair is blue which is obviously impossible and offensive. I can only speculate until we bring these "haters" before a tribunal of truth and reconciliation.
EDIT: Oh, and that "V" guy. Blame him.
EDIT(2): At least, that's what I'm told. Somebody link me up.
That's my theory, at least. A lot of people (according to scientific studies) feel that the show "makes no sense". I don't know, but I watched the thing quite inebriated and managed to piece it all together, but then, apparently I watch things with a ravenous intensity.
Is that it then? Do all Eva fans watch things with a ravenous intensity?
Some people (surveys say) didn't like how whiny the dub could come across. I liked some characters better when I finally saw the show with subtitles.
Also, maybe some people have a thing against "gingers" and/or Germans, or half-Germans. Asuka does happen to represent the bloodlines of the two chief Axis powers, which might ruin the entire show for some. Gendo's gloves aren't that fashionable. He has a funny beard. Rei's hair is blue which is obviously impossible and offensive. I can only speculate until we bring these "haters" before a tribunal of truth and reconciliation.
EDIT: Oh, and that "V" guy. Blame him.
EDIT(2): At least, that's what I'm told. Somebody link me up.
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- CyberXIII
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If this was any other fanbase, I'd agree.
But Eva brings in about as much acidic bile as Twilight in some circles. It's one of the most polarizing franchises I've ever dealt with, and I was there when the Final Fantasy fanbase cracked itself apart.
And everyone hates the NGE fanbase. Evidently, the 22nd letter of the alphabet gets around a lot more than I thought. The general consensus is that the fanbase is a bunch of pretentious, whiny, psychologically disturbed douchebags that are obsessed with finding "symbolism" in every frame of animation.
But Eva brings in about as much acidic bile as Twilight in some circles. It's one of the most polarizing franchises I've ever dealt with, and I was there when the Final Fantasy fanbase cracked itself apart.
And everyone hates the NGE fanbase. Evidently, the 22nd letter of the alphabet gets around a lot more than I thought. The general consensus is that the fanbase is a bunch of pretentious, whiny, psychologically disturbed douchebags that are obsessed with finding "symbolism" in every frame of animation.
"Crapsack worlds and anti heroes have their place. Sometimes, they are very necessary. But an endless diet of dreary cyberpunk and dark fantasy won't do us any more favors than an endless feast of glurge. I'd argue that the cynical nature of these really hurt our ability to hope and work for better. It gets us to accept the hopelessness and jaded outlook of things as 'That's the way it is. I can't change it,' and stops us from fighting when we NEED to fight."
I am ask-shinji-ikari on tumblr.com. Feel free to ask me questions!
I am ask-shinji-ikari on tumblr.com. Feel free to ask me questions!
Evangelion is popular and complex. Popular things get flack for being popular, and complex things get flack for being incomprehensible and/or pretentious. Since NGE is both, it kinda gets shmurmamered by haters. But seeing as how its popularity is still growing and still pretty strong, I don't think their voices have much effect.
Also, I think it's partially fighting a shift in perspective. As times have changed, fans have grown used to grimdark srs bidniss animus like Ergo Proxy and the like, so NGE--with all of the acclaim it gets for being grimdark srs bidniss--probably gets flack for not presenting itself as such initially. And once it DOES get to that point, it vamps up the intensity and demands a certain amount of attention from its viewers that stuff like Ergo Proxy (etc) don't really demand. And then there's the unparalleled mindfuck that is EoE, which is guaranteed to polarize viewers.
EDIT
Also, I think it's partially fighting a shift in perspective. As times have changed, fans have grown used to grimdark srs bidniss animus like Ergo Proxy and the like, so NGE--with all of the acclaim it gets for being grimdark srs bidniss--probably gets flack for not presenting itself as such initially. And once it DOES get to that point, it vamps up the intensity and demands a certain amount of attention from its viewers that stuff like Ergo Proxy (etc) don't really demand. And then there's the unparalleled mindfuck that is EoE, which is guaranteed to polarize viewers.
EDIT
CyberXIII wrote:The general consensus is that the fanbase is a bunch of pretentious, whiny, psychologically disturbed douchebags that are obsessed with finding "symbolism" in every frame of animation.
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CyberXIII wrote:The general consensus is that the fanbase is a bunch of pretentious, whiny, psychologically disturbed douchebags that are obsessed with finding "symbolism" in every frame of animation.
In academia, we call those film theorists.
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You left out the fact that it's extremely provocative. Provocative art provokes polar reactions. I always reference the fact that Stravinsky's Rite of Spring caused a riot at its premieres with shouts of "genius!" from the progressives and "trash!" from the conservatives. NGE is pretty similar, but in a different context.
Or if you change a few words around ("frame of animation" with "word in every sentence) you could apply it to lit theorists, deconstructionists, etc. The same applies across all the arts.
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^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
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Its because Evangelion has a tendency of causing people to become over zealous and announce that NGE is a "Fukken masterpeece", and denounce any other anime that is compared to NGE.
Between us, I DO think NGE makes all the other anime I've seen so far look like a joke, but its still retarded to force your opinions on people, especially when a lot of fans don't back up their reasons besides saying its SOOOO DEEP
Between us, I DO think NGE makes all the other anime I've seen so far look like a joke, but its still retarded to force your opinions on people, especially when a lot of fans don't back up their reasons besides saying its SOOOO DEEP
- the_seventh_child
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It is a popular mainstream show. Thus huge fandom. Thus, probability of whiny/idiotic/baw/rage people being a part of it. Thus..fandom sucks most of the time. Hello society.
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- People who aren't psychologically damaged and/or intensely introverted won't get much from it. To them the overall message is a big steaming pile of DUH.
- It tricks fans of action/comedy/harem series into watching, then does a bait-and-switch on them halfway through. They didn't sign up to watch all this psychobabble, so to their perspective the show has betrayed them.
- As a popular show there is an element of perceiving that EVERYONE says it's awesome, which leads to people passionately discounting it for the same reason some folks stop liking a band as soon as it gets a wider audience. Overzealous fans who want to "revolutionize" the fandom or "raise the discussion to a scholarly level" don't help this at all.
- Compared to most things in the market it really is rather incomprehensible and pretentious. The sort of show you can only understand if you pay attention while it's on and remember to watch the episodes in order. People fear and hate what they don't understand.
- To most of the new wave of egocentric twitter/youtube/facebook kids, anything made before they discovered anime has zero relevance. Why would they watch something OLD?
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Fixed.
But anyway, NGE itself is somewhat difficult to understand - hell, a lot of newer members of this forum that don't quite have the understanding of NGE that the older ones do get confused and misinterpret a lot of the series (and then go into pointless arguments regarding who's the hottest character, which characters should date, without any sort of knowledge of why most scenarios they bring up would be doomed).
Truth be told, we're a lot like other anime fanbases - the difference is that we have a head twice as big, the extra space being made up of 15% brain matter, 40% hot air, and 45% ego.
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first, EVA is massively popular, and has been done in SO many ways (*sings* the gainax cash cow goes "moo"...), for SO many audiences, that it makes sense that the fandom will be big, chaotic and filled with purists.
second, EVA is a deep, complex show that invites its audience to dig deeper. it's also very ambiguous, and the creators themselves have kept it that way even years after the story was supposedly over. as such, it's only expected that there will be a LOT of disagreement over what something means/what it should mean, which combined with the previous point makes for LOUD arguments.
third, it's also very deep, so it doesn't attract just any random over-excited tween-- you have people that really put a lot of thought into their interpretation of every little detail in the series, people who make long and detailed essays, who go through the video frame by frame. it's the kind of show where people might agree completely on the general, but disagree on the particular-- and the particular spins whole new debates in and on itself. so you end up with a fandom filled with a bunch of elitists (i say that will all the love in the world, you guys) that live to overanalyze every single detail, and who disagree even within the aspects they technically have in common.
it's no wonder it looks bad from the outside.
that said, i've seen worse. at least the days of sending death threats to anno seem to be over, and most of the people don't go "OMFG THEY'VE RUINED THE ENTIRE SERIES AND MY ENTIRE LIFE I'LL HATE THEIR EFFING GUTS FOREVER LET'S BOYCOTT THE MOVIE!" just because they changed Shinji's eye color from the anime to the spin-off manga (although there was the sohryu/shikinami thing...). i think it's probably because the fandom is older on average... younger fandoms are way more impulsive and prone to explosive arguments.
second, EVA is a deep, complex show that invites its audience to dig deeper. it's also very ambiguous, and the creators themselves have kept it that way even years after the story was supposedly over. as such, it's only expected that there will be a LOT of disagreement over what something means/what it should mean, which combined with the previous point makes for LOUD arguments.
third, it's also very deep, so it doesn't attract just any random over-excited tween-- you have people that really put a lot of thought into their interpretation of every little detail in the series, people who make long and detailed essays, who go through the video frame by frame. it's the kind of show where people might agree completely on the general, but disagree on the particular-- and the particular spins whole new debates in and on itself. so you end up with a fandom filled with a bunch of elitists (i say that will all the love in the world, you guys) that live to overanalyze every single detail, and who disagree even within the aspects they technically have in common.
it's no wonder it looks bad from the outside.
that said, i've seen worse. at least the days of sending death threats to anno seem to be over, and most of the people don't go "OMFG THEY'VE RUINED THE ENTIRE SERIES AND MY ENTIRE LIFE I'LL HATE THEIR EFFING GUTS FOREVER LET'S BOYCOTT THE MOVIE!" just because they changed Shinji's eye color from the anime to the spin-off manga (although there was the sohryu/shikinami thing...). i think it's probably because the fandom is older on average... younger fandoms are way more impulsive and prone to explosive arguments.
bittersweet ending: episode 24. the angels are gone and mankind is safe... but tokyo-3 has been ruined; Kaji is dead; toji is a cripple; kensuke, hikari, and their families have moved away, taking pen-pen with them; Asuka is catatonic; ritsuko is in prison; Misato is a nervous wreck; Rei is "the third one"; and Shinji is utterly broken psychologically after having to kill the only person who has offered him unconditional love in the course of the whole series. come the movie? don't worry! it gets worse! ~from the source of all wisdom in the world.
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Hehe, though I don't think the OP "planned" for me to reply...
Anyone care to translate the moonspeak?
It's called a backlash and, yeah, it happens to everything that's popular.
I don't think most casual fans are even aware of the fandom on this level. They may catch some glimpses of this kind of thought but I don't think they think of it much differently than the fans that treat Star Wars and LotR like a scholarly subject or religion. There's very little difference. Plus, as I've said before, most of what we do around here is basically the same thing that goes on with any scholarly subject minus the bloated essays and references. It's basically scholarly analysis in the form of discussion.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
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