Fanservice in Evangelion: Good or Bad?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:09 am

I agree with just about everything you said, Thanatos. Although I find some of the more pointless fanservice bothersome. Not really offensive, but just bothersome. I can't keep from equating pointless fanservice to dangling a shiny object in front of a cat. Sure, the object may not be of great value. But look! It's shiny! Ooh!

Whereas the better executed "fanservice" that actually relates to the story, like those found within the original Evangelion, Kill Bill, and the like, I almost don't even consider it "fanservice" because there's more to those elements than just "servicing fans". A lot of times, when executed that well, it becomes more of a plot device (maybe becoming one with the plot is a better way of looking at it?) than a "shiny object" that's used to merely service fans.

I think a lot of it also has to do with target audience. Females generally don't find nudity as much of a service as males do. (A lot of them just find it "dirty".) Whereas for most teenage girls, just a life-size cardboard cut out of a Twilight character is enough for a lot of them. And because of that, it's a lot harder for us guys to pin-point the female-targeted fanservice. Although I found most of Twilight completely pointless anyway, so I guess it could all be considered female-targeted fanservice.

I remember making a short film about abortion and underage sex (depending on what state you lived in, I guess), and trying to tell the story from the point of view of the girl. I ran through a lot of re-writes and even called upon the assistance of a female co-writer to make sure it felt as feminine as possible. Part of that was making sure there were no "creepy guy shots", as we called them. If there was any male-targeted fanservice within the film, it would have severely countered the desired reaction from the female audiences the film was trying to reach.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:57 am

View Original PostThanatos wrote:when the obligatory sex scene appears its' acceptable.
You have help crystallize something that I've been thinking on the topic--

Fanservice is acceptable when it doesn't interrupt the proceedings.

Yeah, I don't think of sex scenes as fanservice, just a "where's the fast forward to get past this annoying padding"; at least the usual anime panty-shot is just a ~1s shift of camera angle away from the narrative and Strike Witches did things right by requiring zero interruption.
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Postby Halicat » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:38 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:This is more or less a throwback to the original series with the similar scene.

SPOILER: Show

Perhaps, but they're barely synonymous, considering Shinji was looking at her in the original, whereas this time, its just obtrusive pandering to the viewer.

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Postby oOoOoOo » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:55 pm

As Hali-chan says, I think "good" fanservice is where the camera is directed by a character's gaze, while "bad" fanservice is when the camera's gazing all on its own, presumably for the benefit of straight boys who are not superfly. You could argue that the "good" sort is actually not fanservice at all. Like Tines-san says, sexy times often have relevance to the characters and their magical journey through fiction.

There seems to be a concensus that 2.XX is more fanservicesque than the TV series, but I should point out that any servicing in 2.XX is eclipsed by just about anything else out there. I was watching trailers for random shows on one of my boxsets, and I was constantly amazed by the unnecessary T&A.

So while I might jokingly liken the second Rebuild film to Code Geass, it's really not so bad. ^^;
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:56 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:I don't think of sex scenes as fanservice,

That's more like watching a dialogue-less scene of the main characters eating. You're watching a good thing without getting any of the benefit from it. So the scene just becomes clumsy and in the way of the story.

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Postby Halicat » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:46 pm

View Original PostoOoOoOo wrote:There seems to be a concensus that 2.XX is more fanservicesque than the TV series, but I should point out that any servicing in 2.XX is eclipsed by just about anything else out there. I was watching trailers for random shows on one of my boxsets, and I was constantly amazed by the unnecessary T&A.


I agree with all you've said, O. Despite my lacking of love for some of the fanservice in Rebuild, it's much worse elsewhere [Strike Witches, as Tines pointed out.] It IS much tamer than pretty much anything you get in anime sometimes, it just irks me a little because...well...it didn't seem very EVA to me if that makes sense since Anno usually subverted the service or made it say something in the series, which was my main beef with it [I do generally take a dislike to fanservice generally as I've said, but shows like Tenchi Muyo and Dragonball are still amongst my favourites, and still hilarious all things considered.]

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Postby oOoOoOo » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:02 pm

Yes, Hali-chan, I know what you mean by the comparison to the TV series. I find that when it comes to comparing Rebuild to the series (whether we're talking fanservice or other aspects) that I always start getting into a bad mood. I start building up this holy grail of unapproachable awesometasticality.

See, if I were to have seen the Rebuild movies in a world where the TV show didn't exist, I'd think I was watching a clever, moody action piece that was miles above the rest of its peers. The panty shots would have hardly bleeped on my modern feminist woman radar. It is only when I start thinking about TV Eva that I start going into GRRRRR mode.

Subversion, though... could Anno-san be preparing us for something? I think back to the light-hearted episodes in the TV series, and how utterly ridiculous something like the dance sync episode seemed, yet after reaching the angst of the final arc, all of that happy-go-lucky silliness gave me a sense of bitter-sweet nostalgia. Like, so much of the Asuka/Shinji "romance" in the TV series was building towards Shinji coming on her chest and choking her. We were misled with Rei/Shinji as well, to some degree. Rei spends a lot of time naked and undressing, but her apocalyptic final form is a far cry from the titilation one might have felt when Shinji got his boob-grab earlier in the series. What does Rebuild have in store?

I could be thinking wishfully, though.
~ O-chan is soooo 2D right now.

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Postby Halicat » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:24 pm

View Original PostoOoOoOo wrote:I could be thinking wishfully, though.


You, I, and many others, perhaps. But I CERTAINLY hope not. If he does screw up I won't be sending any death threats though, HOWEVER, last time he had a reason, this time? NO WAY. :asuka_geh:

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Postby NemZ » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:29 pm

View Original PostoOoOoOo wrote:It is only when I start thinking about TV Eva that I start going into GRRRRR mode.


Yes, exactly right... but the comparison is practically unavoidable.

I could be thinking wishfully, though.


I too hope that Anno pulls some epic turnaround stunt to justify all this pandering, but 2.22 has not given me a whole lot of hope.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:50 pm

O7: We get Shinji fapping (in a disturbing manner yeah, yeah) and him sitting around naked in the LCL Sea in EoE, what more fanservice could you ask for? :lol: That said, maybe Q or Final will have more fanservice-y shots of him. Who knows.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:14 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:what more fanservice could you ask for?
Well, Rebuild has so far gotten rid of Shinji's one bit of canon crossdressing; and onnagata characters seem to be fashionable at the moment...
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Postby Lucretius » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:28 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:I too hope that Anno pulls some epic turnaround stunt to justify all this pandering, but 2.22 has not given me a whole lot of hope.


My personal hope is that 3.0 will reveal that Shinji was the false protagonist of Rebuild all along, and that we should all feel ashamed for rooting for him. The real hero turns out to be Hikari or some other random townsperson whose family was vaporized when Unit 01 destroyed Tokyo.

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

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Postby Halicat » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:35 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:...and onnagata characters seem to be fashionable at the moment...


Maybe they'll up the ante with this? I mean, crossdressing isn't unusual for Shinji by any means and aside from that

SPOILER: Show
Kaji/Shinji thing in 2.0 all we've gotten from the males so far is Kaworu's butt.


Personally, I want Aoba service, especially of the kind where he manic-air guitars in Central Dogma, preferably with Gendo and Fuyu in classic pose as the backdrop.

Lucretius wrote:My personal hope is that 3.0 will reveal that Shinji was the false protagonist of Rebuild all along, and that we should all feel ashamed for rooting for him. The real hero turns out to be Hikari or some other random townsperson whose family was vaporized when Unit 01 destroyed Tokyo.


If it were Kensuke, I think I would love this so much.

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Postby oOoOoOo » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:21 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:O7: We get Shinji fapping (in a disturbing manner yeah, yeah) and him sitting around naked in the LCL Sea in EoE, what more fanservice could you ask for?

God, you really make me look like a greedy perv, you know that? I have a reputation of immaculate purity to uphold! Curse you, SSD-san! ;_;

~ahem~

But to balance things out, I need to see Shinji's bulge. Something shifting around. We've have exquisite detail lavished on an array of breasts and bums, and I feel like Shinji's a canvas waiting for the right stroke.

<_<

You know what, I hear-by summon the powers of geekery. I want shot-by-shot analysis here. I want images comparing all of the lewd fanservicey moments. I want to see how well the boys stack up against the girls. And I want someone else to do all the work for me.
~ O-chan is soooo 2D right now.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:26 pm

View Original PostoOoOoOo wrote:<_<

You know what, I hear-by summon the powers of geekery. I want shot-by-shot analysis here. I want images comparing all of the lewd fanservicey moments. I want to see how well the boys stack up against the girls. And I want someone else to do all the work for me.

YES!!! Excluding Rebuild, I think I could contribute a lot to this! But we need to be clear as to what kind of fanservicey elements you're looking for. As we've discussed before, there are non-nudey sexualized fanservice elements out there that may not be so easily caught be certain viewers. (Myself in particular.)

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Postby oOoOoOo » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:47 pm

Oh, we want sexualized fanservice, Freaky-kun. Sexuaaliiiized. I also call for Rebuild evidence, but that can be placed in spoiler tags. Maybe we've over-exaggerating how much the ladies come under the lecherous gaze of the camera. We need evidence.

I want to stress that I am requesting visual evidence of sexual fanservice for both men and women. I want to further stress that I want others to do this for me.

I want to stress, even further than I've stressed previously, that this will bring me much mirth.

There will be prizes.*

* Whether or not you enjoy my prize is your own problem. I will enjoy it. Stop being so selfish.
~ O-chan is soooo 2D right now.

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Postby THE Hal E. Burton 9000 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:58 pm

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:02 pm

Would Lilith's exposed chest count?

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Postby Monk Ed » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:11 pm

View Original PostoOoOoOo wrote:I want to further stress that I want others to do this for me.

I want to stress, even further than I've stressed previously, that this will bring me much mirth.

There will be prizes.*

* Whether or not you enjoy my prize is your own problem. I will enjoy it. Stop being so selfish.

:fuyu_facepalm: Only you... could get away with this.
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Postby oOoOoOo » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:41 am

I suppose the freaky "giant naked Rei" apocalyptic nakedness isn't "fanservice", at least not for the average person. I'm sure there is more scary female imagery than male imagery, though. Can you imagine a giant naked Kaworu? Full frontal? The fabric of society is less rattled by female imagery, perhaps. Although I imagine we could uncover all sorts of "phallic" moments in the show, it'd probably be more abstract, like not literal penises.

And yes, I am ridiculous. But it would be illuminating to compile a fanservice archive of evidence from the source. Which character suffers the animators' whimsical pencils the most in this regard? In what way? Just how many fanservicings occur in the show? Can we link this back to that delightfully translated feminist article from Holy Japan itself? (Let's not link it back to that.)

All this talk of fanservice makes me want to rewatch 2.22, where the real fanservice would be the endless battle sequences, lovingly crafted. With all that going on, I think I quickly forget the saucy fanservice even happened.
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