Fanservice in Evangelion: Good or Bad?

This is a forum for casual discussion of Evangelion. Topics like "Asuka is hot!" or "Which Eva kicks the most ass?" belong here.

Moderator: Board Staff

FreakyFilmFan4ever
(In)Sufficient Director
(In)Sufficient Director
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 7742
Joined: Jun 09, 2009
Location: Playing amongst the stars
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:32 am

Heh. I like how we keep going to Rebuild to discuss fanservice. Especially 2.22. I haven't even seen it, but just from what's being tossed in a non Rebuild thread, and from what I actually have seen in 1.11, there seems to be much better examples of well executed fanservice out there than
New Theatrical Edition  SPOILER: Show
a lingering low-angle shot of Rei's bare behind in 1.11 or whatever they're doing with Asuka in 2.22.


My stance on fanservice has always been the same as my stance with everything else. If it's not doing something important, or if it's distracting from anything important, it should probably be removed.

What is important to a film you ask? It changes by the scene, so it's hard to pin-point. But since we all "love" this man's work so much, let us turn to Michael Bay for some obvious examples of pointlessness within storytelling.
(I know that's a low blow considering we're discussing Evangelion, a work that is clearly superior. But just hang with me for a moment.)

Michael Bay blows stuff up. It doesn't matter if the story called for something to be blown to bits, or if breaking Guinness World Records on pyrotechnics would help the plot any, or even if actually blowing up Pennsylvania Avenue would put the president in harm's way, he's gonna blow stuff up. We've seen one of the few scripts he made from scratch, Transformers 2, and it wreaked of tiresome explosions, robotic panty fetishes, and bestiality throughout. All this with a very weak plot. (If one can even argue it had a plot.)

Let's look at the first Transformers film. (since we already know the second film sucked.) Michael Bay's push for more and more needless action left absolutely no room for plot exposition. As a result, the audience in focus groups and test screenings didn't know what was going on. With the actors gone, Bay was forced to digitally create an entirely new scene where the Autobots rambled on about where Bumblebee was, the importance of the war, and something about a cube being stuck into Optimus. This way, the audience would know that the film did actually have a plot in it somewhere.

Even the exposition scene felt only remotely important. If anything, I felt like I was being spoon-fed information about the plot, and therefore, it made me feel as if my intelligence was being underestimated. This become even more apparent when you realize that any one of the previous action scenes could have easily introduced some of this exposition without even needing to sacrifice any of the action for it. But Bay's "Ooh, look! Explosion!" camera kept any of that from actually happening.

What does any of this have to do with fanservice? Well to be honest, I feel like explosions are a different kind of fanservice. True, it's not sexualized, and therefore not quite as stereotypical of a fanservice as a panty shot or boobs in the face, but it services fans nonetheless. And yet there's a point where we call "foul" on Michael Bay's overindulgence in the flame-fest.

Likewise, something like a panty shot or boobs in the face can distract greatly from something important a film is trying to do. And especially with film, time is money. If 40+ labor intensive frames of panty animation doesn't get a point across other than "She wear white cotton", then the shot is pointless to the rest of the story, and might even hinder from any exposition from being relayed to the viewer until the filmmaker if forced to create something like Bay's "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scene with his boring babbling robots. (<---Heh, that sounds like a circus act.)

And it's not all that hard to come up with meaningful sexualized fanservice. Even Superman's line "Pink" in the 1978 movie could be considered meaningful fanservice. It relays important information (what Superman can and cannot see through) between the film's two main characters, as well as gives us a chance to let us giggle at Superman looking at pink panties.

Does the sexualized fanservice in 2.22 accomplish any of this? I don't know, I haven't seen it yet. But from what I have seen of 1.11, there does seem to be better examples of fanservice out there than the fanservice found in the New Theatrical Editions. Now I'm not gonna form an opinion of 2.22, because I haven't seen it yet. After I see that, I'll have more on it.
And Please Use A  SPOILER: Show
Please? ;_;


Is it wrong to have meaningless fanservice? That's up to the viewer. But like NemZ said earlier, it sure doesn't help. (Again, this is not my judgment on 2.22. That would be ridiculous, I haven't seen it yet.) As for myself, when making a short film I don't spend time or money of a shot that could be rendered meaningless to the story. Fanservice or no.

MiltyWay
Embryo
User avatar
Posts: 13
Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Location: NJ
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby MiltyWay » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:08 am

Fanservice can be great, or it can just be ridiculously too much to handle or care about.

I like the service in Evangelion, they do tend to cater to the fans a bit though, but what I like about some of their fanservice is it /is/ a art. Some of the shots just HAPPEN to be like that.
SPOILER: Show
like when Shinji and Asuka are in the same bed in a part of 2.22
it just looks more realistic to show body language, and since the main character has such a hard time connecting with anyone, and not really having physical contact, in my opinion, it's supposed to let the viewers connect with the main character
SPOILER: Show
the subtle movements and the awkward words while their on the bed disccusing why the pilot the eva
.

I dunno maybe I just read and find an excuse to make anything artsy, but you have to remember that some of the service serves as reflection of what a teenager wants to see too. The main gear for audience are teenagers, the main population being male.[/spoiler]
I know we can't forget the past, you can't forget love and pride, because of that it's killing me inside...

Taekmkm
Shamshel
Shamshel
Posts: 286
Joined: May 22, 2009

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Taekmkm » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:40 am

If art was profitable, it wouldn't be art.
We watched 'The Lion King' in my math class once. After it was over, the teacher passed out worksheets that said: "If the circle of life had a diamter of 46 inches..."

MiltyWay
Embryo
User avatar
Posts: 13
Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Location: NJ
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby MiltyWay » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:42 am

View Original PostTaekmkm wrote:If art was profitable, it wouldn't be art.


You have a point there, but if art isn't profitable how do artist make a living? I'm not arguing back and sorry for straying off subject matter, I'm just morbidly curious to know your stance on it.
I know we can't forget the past, you can't forget love and pride, because of that it's killing me inside...

Taekmkm
Shamshel
Shamshel
Posts: 286
Joined: May 22, 2009

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Taekmkm » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:54 am

Day jobs, second jobs. Same as most most actors/actresses and any media worker. There are exceptions, extreme exceptions as there are for everything else.

Begging is also profitable. Very profitable.
We watched 'The Lion King' in my math class once. After it was over, the teacher passed out worksheets that said: "If the circle of life had a diamter of 46 inches..."

Oz
Finland Miracle
Finland Miracle
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 4840
Joined: Aug 02, 2009
Location: Finland
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Oz » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:58 am

View Original PostTaekmkm wrote:If art was profitable, it wouldn't be art.

Then how do you explain Avatar? Don't simply throw random ideas like this around on these forums - especially when it has nothing to do with the topic.
"I'd really like to have as much money as you have, Oz" - robersora
"No you wouldn't. Oz's secret is he goes without food to buy that stuff. He hasn't eaten in years." - Brikhaus

"Often I get the feeling that deep down, your little girl is struggling with your embrace of filmfaggotry and your loldeep fixations, and the conflict that arises from such a contradiction is embodied pretty well in Kureha's character. But obviously it's not any sort of internal conflict that makes the analogy work. It's the pigtails." - Merridian
"Oh, Oz, I fear I'm losing my filmfag to the depths of Japanese pop. If only there were more films with Japanese girls in glow-in-the-dark costumes you'd be the David Bordwell of that genre." - Jimbo
"Oz, I think we need to stage an intervention and force you to watch some movies that aren't made in Japan." - Trajan

Taekmkm
Shamshel
Shamshel
Posts: 286
Joined: May 22, 2009

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Taekmkm » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:11 am

You're calling Avatar art?
We watched 'The Lion King' in my math class once. After it was over, the teacher passed out worksheets that said: "If the circle of life had a diamter of 46 inches..."

Halicat
Bardiel
Bardiel
Posts: 768
Joined: Feb 04, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Halicat » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:20 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:...I concede that in both examples it could be an attempt to symbolize her emotional walls coming down, but if so I must say that the choice of symbol is poor because the media competes with the message.


THIS. You just summed up exactly why I hate those services so much :asuka_geh:

Oz
Finland Miracle
Finland Miracle
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 4840
Joined: Aug 02, 2009
Location: Finland
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Oz » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:21 am

View Original PostTaekmkm wrote:You're calling Avatar art?

No matter what you think about the film (I've avoided watching it) it is still art because all films are art by definition (an artistic medium).

It's getting awfully tangential here ...
"I'd really like to have as much money as you have, Oz" - robersora
"No you wouldn't. Oz's secret is he goes without food to buy that stuff. He hasn't eaten in years." - Brikhaus

"Often I get the feeling that deep down, your little girl is struggling with your embrace of filmfaggotry and your loldeep fixations, and the conflict that arises from such a contradiction is embodied pretty well in Kureha's character. But obviously it's not any sort of internal conflict that makes the analogy work. It's the pigtails." - Merridian
"Oh, Oz, I fear I'm losing my filmfag to the depths of Japanese pop. If only there were more films with Japanese girls in glow-in-the-dark costumes you'd be the David Bordwell of that genre." - Jimbo
"Oz, I think we need to stage an intervention and force you to watch some movies that aren't made in Japan." - Trajan

oOoOoOo
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Posts: 1677
Joined: Apr 20, 2009
Location: Canada

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby oOoOoOo » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:23 am

I agree with Monk Ed that something like a panty shot can be a tone-setter. Although I personally would have "shot" the scene differently, it did create some intimacy in my mind.

Although I went on a big rampage about male-oriented vs. female-oriented fanservice, I'd still like to see a bit more naked Shinji. I'll clarify in this Rebuild spoiler (not that it gives away any of the plot):
SPOILER: Show
We see Asuka from a rather "yay vagina!" camera angle, but with the blueish, moody lighting it instantly reminded me of a hot night where I'm tossing my covers off and sleeping in a state of undress. But I wish they'd show similar things for Shinji. Both Shinji and Asuka are pretty vulnerable and uneasy (in their own way) when they're lying beside each other, back-to-back, but with the way they filmed her panties, it feels too much like the film is assuming the audience is 100% straight male and doesn't want to see anything but lady-panties. Like Monk-kun was hinting at, we get a feeling for Asuka's vulnerability and need by showing her rather exposed. It isn't the badass nakedness of her kicking scene, but a more curled-up nakedness. She's making her body smaller, not taking an aggressive stance. So showing her in a state of undress can drive that home. But what about Shinji? How does he react to her showing up? Does he get an erection? I imagine for a boy his age, the complete lack of control he has over his erections must be a source of embarrassment and shame, if not confusion. A bulge shot would be nice, as aside from fanserving those who want to see that, it would put Shinji in an equally vulnerable place. They're both in the same boat, really.
I'd rather the camera be "neutral". By all means, show me panties and naked flesh, but be even-handed about it. Boys and girls alike see their own private parts on a daily basis when they get dressed, but the dressing scenes (even in the TV show) often seem to focus on the girls. Like Rei's underwear falling around her feet. Shinji's definitely not ultra-confident about his own body, and I think it'd drive that point home if there was more "fanservice" of him. They do the jokey toothpick scene, but they don't do it so often in serious scenes.

Granted, straight males want to see naked females more than straight females want to see naked males, so there's obviously going to be more focus on the female body, but... the camera should not be tied to the male or female gaze unless it is serving the purpose of another character.

Here's a Kaji example from Rebuild:
SPOILER: Show
Misato and Kaji are drinking, and Misato's hammered and whining and they're hinting at how they'd like to fuck but maybe they shouldn't, and how tough it is on the kids. She's leaning across her chair and the camera's really lingering on the curves of her body. But we see Kaji's eyes looking, looking away, looking back, and I think that is the perfect way to do a "sexy" shot.


View Original PostTaekmkm wrote:If art was profitable, it wouldn't be art.

Many of the greatest artists in European history just did commissions for popes and kings. The greatest masterpieces of all time were often not done for the sheer love of art, but literally done for "the man".
~ O-chan is soooo 2D right now.

Taekmkm
Shamshel
Shamshel
Posts: 286
Joined: May 22, 2009

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Taekmkm » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:25 am

Oh, so you're playing the semantic card. K. Tell Ebert that too, he seems to have trouble with that at times.
We watched 'The Lion King' in my math class once. After it was over, the teacher passed out worksheets that said: "If the circle of life had a diamter of 46 inches..."

Oz
Finland Miracle
Finland Miracle
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 4840
Joined: Aug 02, 2009
Location: Finland
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Oz » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:31 am

Umm. Essentially you were exploring what is art and what is not. You started it, man. That's a nice way to dodge my response and completely detract the attention from what we were discussing by namedropping Ebert (who barely has any relevance).

Let's try to get back on topic. Even though there was an excessive amount of SAAVICU SAAVICU in Rebuild it never really bothered me. Asuka's new plugsuit could/should have been different, but I'm not that bothered by it. The film was still rather effective so it is not as if the fanservice decreased the film's impact on me.
"I'd really like to have as much money as you have, Oz" - robersora
"No you wouldn't. Oz's secret is he goes without food to buy that stuff. He hasn't eaten in years." - Brikhaus

"Often I get the feeling that deep down, your little girl is struggling with your embrace of filmfaggotry and your loldeep fixations, and the conflict that arises from such a contradiction is embodied pretty well in Kureha's character. But obviously it's not any sort of internal conflict that makes the analogy work. It's the pigtails." - Merridian
"Oh, Oz, I fear I'm losing my filmfag to the depths of Japanese pop. If only there were more films with Japanese girls in glow-in-the-dark costumes you'd be the David Bordwell of that genre." - Jimbo
"Oz, I think we need to stage an intervention and force you to watch some movies that aren't made in Japan." - Trajan

Halicat
Bardiel
Bardiel
Posts: 768
Joined: Feb 04, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Halicat » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:04 pm

View Original PostoOoOoOo wrote:Here's a Kaji example from Rebuild:
SPOILER: Show
Misato and Kaji are drinking, and Misato's hammered and whining and they're hinting at how they'd like to fuck but maybe they shouldn't, and how tough it is on the kids. She's leaning across her chair and the camera's really lingering on the curves of her body. But we see Kaji's eyes looking, looking away, looking back, and I think that is the perfect way to do a "sexy" shot.


When I seen that, I was like this:
SPOILER: Show
"Oh look, he's being the gentleman and not looki-oh there he goes, wait he's not anymore, wait, there he goes again! Gentleman fail."


Couldn't help but find it hilarious and a GOOD example of how fanservice can contribute. I disagree with the need for the

SPOILER: Show
butt shot before Asuka goes into Shinji's room; I felt it was obtrusive and placed more importance on her as an object to stare at than as a person with feelings by sticking it in during a moment she was feeling awkward and opening up. Same with the stupid shots of her breasts as she was talking. They already got her vulnerability across with her see through top and butt shot you see when the camera pans to her feet, the rest was overkill.


Fanservice makes me feminist-rage sometimes, and I certainly don't think combating it with more male fanservice is good either.

Killer Bee
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 1428
Joined: May 16, 2010
Location: United States
Gender: Male

Re: Oy vey!

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Killer Bee » Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:06 pm

View Original PostFlyvapnet wrote:"How old is the girl in that painting?" "Huh? It's a painting. It's not a real girl." "That doesn't matter - anymore. You can't make depictions of underage girls." "Underage? What age is that?" "Um, we really don't know. It's an abstraction." "But here's another painting, depicting me shooting someone. Of course it never actually happened...." "Oh, that's perfectly all right. Depictions of murder are acceptable."


Just wanted to chime in and say I agree with you. I won't repeat what I'm sure hundreds of posters have mentioned about America's tolerance of violence and intolerance of sexuality; but the American media is entering a stage right now where it fears anything that can possibly be misconstrued as pedophilia. I guess it's just another form of political correctness gone mad.

It's like going to Great Britain and acknowledging every black person you meet as an "African-American." Everyone's too afraid of offending everyone else, and if enough people complain about naked depictions of underage anime characters, then the politicians will step up and stamp it out, artistic freedom be damned.

Eva Yojimbo
Redbeard
Redbeard
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 8005
Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbo
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Eva Yojimbo » Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:10 pm

View Original PostTaekmkm wrote:If art was profitable, it wouldn't be art... Day jobs, second jobs.
Hogwash. I guess you don't consider Mozart and Bach artful? How about Shakespeare? Hitchcock?
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

Thanatos
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 28
Joined: Jun 26, 2007
Location: Earth
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Thanatos » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:54 pm

View Original PostEva Yojimbo wrote:Hogwash. I guess you don't consider Mozart and Bach artful? How about Shakespeare? Hitchcock?


While I won't get into it here, as it strays off topic, it is interesting to consider the compromise an artist makes when they choose to take a commercial path, and how it will alter their ability to be a "true artist" to some degree.
See Campbell's functions of the artist from Myths to Live by, or his ideas in Mask of God: Vol.IV Creative Mythology



Anyway, I thought this would be a great opportunity to give my thoughts on a topic I was too lazy to search for. Though after reading most of Yojimbo's thoughts, anything I say would merely be repeating his words.

I do however understand the OPs feelings here concerning the fanservice and how it may act as a barrier of sorts to those less acquainted with anime.(Though personally I think giant synthetic robots fighting each other would scare them away first.) And while I can sympathize in your willingness to have others experience this work, I can't; however, rationalize altering it in any way, even if that change would result in it reaching a much larger audience.
Of course this relates back to some of the points of the commercial artist, particularly in our time, since their corporate masters essentially do what you are suggesting to works across all mediums; which is too limit creativity and expression in order to increase marketability.
"The one who lacks courage to be a hammer, comes off in the role of the anvil." -Oswald Spengler

FreakyFilmFan4ever
(In)Sufficient Director
(In)Sufficient Director
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 7742
Joined: Jun 09, 2009
Location: Playing amongst the stars
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:12 pm

View Original PostThanatos wrote:I do however understand the OPs feelings here concerning the fanservice and how it may act as a barrier of sorts to those less acquainted with anime.

That makes sense, but I'm not sure if non-anime works are completely free of fanservice elements. Burn Notice comes to mind as a live-action show with rather pointless fanservice in it. And there are, of course, other works where the fanservice elements do help to tell the story, like Sin City or even classics like Hitchcock's Psycho.

I guess because anime is, well, animation, people have a tendency to relate that to children's entertainment. So fanservice elements just might seem to stick out more to people in anime than in live-action works.

I mean, we're talking about fanservice, and we haven't once mentioned anything non anime related. (Mainly it's been about 2.22.) I guess that shows us how much we actually don't notice fanservice in shows our culture is more used to as a whole.

Sachi
Oh Daddy!
Oh Daddy!
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 10008
Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Location: Hollywoo
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sachi » Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:36 pm

View Original PostHalicat wrote:
SPOILER: Show
Same with the stupid shots of her breasts as she was talking.

This is more or less a throwback to the original series with the similar scene.
- Sachi

I host the unofficial EGF discord server. Join us! https://discord.gg/WqS7wRW
I also host another more general discord server for film and anime fans: https://discord.gg/wWYPwjb

Eva Yojimbo
Redbeard
Redbeard
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 8005
Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbo
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Eva Yojimbo » Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:12 pm

View Original PostThanatos wrote:While I won't get into it here, as it strays off topic, it is interesting to consider the compromise an artist makes when they choose to take a commercial path, and how it will alter their ability to be a "true artist" to some degree.
This assumes they can't be artful inside of a limiting confine, which isn't always the case. Classic Hollywood directors had to work inside the confines of a Hollywood Studio system that gave infinitely more power to producers than directors, yet people like Hitchcock and Ford mastered the system and created outstanding art because of it more than in spite of it. The real trick has always been for artists to find a way to appeal to the "groundlings" (as Shakespeare called them) as much as the learned elite and "judicious". The best have usually found ways to do this. Sometimes limitations aid rather than prohibit creativity, like composers who had to work inside of forms.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

Thanatos
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 28
Joined: Jun 26, 2007
Location: Earth
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Thanatos » Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:02 am

View Original PostEva Yojimbo wrote:This assumes they can't be artful inside of a limiting confine, which isn't always the case. Classic Hollywood directors had to work inside the confines of a Hollywood Studio system that gave infinitely more power to producers than directors, yet people like Hitchcock and Ford mastered the system and created outstanding art because of it more than in spite of it. The real trick has always been for artists to find a way to appeal to the "groundlings" (as Shakespeare called them) as much as the learned elite and "judicious". The best have usually found ways to do this. Sometimes limitations aid rather than prohibit creativity, like composers who had to work inside of forms.


Agreed sir. Though I suppose I was a little vague, Campbell was speaking mostly in terms of artists in the traditional sense; painters, sculptors, poets, playwrights, etc. I think it still applies to modern artists across all mediums though.
In our time, one way to overcome this is to accept it and work within those confines as you said. And an actual advantage to this today would be if you are very successful, then you can reach a point where you can do what you like; i.e, finance your own film, start your own label and so on. Where as in say Kurosawa's day, under the studio system, he saw very little profit from his works, and several times his films almost bankrupted the studio.

And you raise a good point about those limitations or negative aspects being adopted and actually strengthening the work. I mean look at Eva, a lot of the greatness of that series comes from Anno's dissatisfaction with the anime industry, the fans, and himself.


@ FreakyFilmFan4ever - When I think of fanservice in animation it usually doesn't bother me, but it rarely adds to the experience. Which is funny because when I think of fanservice in terms of live-action American films, I only think of positive examples. Which is ridiculous, since there is more garbage floating around in American cinema than Japan can ever hope to achieve.
But look at Tarantino's Kill Bill, that is fanservice to the extreme, yet at the same time it is relevant to the narrative. Or how about the best example, Leone's Once Upon a Time in the West. In either film, if the viewer is a diehard fan of the genre, or in Tarantino's case genres, than it is an absolute joy to watch.
I feel obliged now to offer some examples of fanservice in anime that enhances the viewing experience; Sayonara Zetsubuo Sensai, Lucky Star, Genshiken.

In the end, it boils down to what you said with Westerns basically equating all anime into cartoons for children. With that mindset they encounter a panty shot of a 16 year old girl and are disgusted, but when they flip on MTV and get aroused watching a 16 year old scantily clad girl dancing its' okay, or when the obligatory sex scene appears its' acceptable.
"The one who lacks courage to be a hammer, comes off in the role of the anvil." -Oswald Spengler


Return to “Evangelion Chit-Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest