Story and Character Improvements

[ehh123]

If anyone thinks Rebuild has done some improvements in story and characters in comparison to NGE so far, what are they? Is it that they made Shinji a little more sociable or is it that Kaworu is actually going to be more than a 15 minute plot devise to send Shinji off the deep end?

[AuraTwilight]

Yea, pretty much exactly that, in addition to the expansion of Rei's character development and insight.

[Rodeo]

I don't think there have been any improvements.
If there's one aspect of 2.0 that I didn't particularly fancy, it's the new Rei. She did not strike me as very mysterious and alien at all.

[SaltyJoe]

Well, i don't think about changes as definite improvements until i see how they unfold in the end.

And i honestly have to ask: do people really feel that we got more insight into Rei than we did in the series by this point? I mean sure, seeing her get all mushy over Shinji must have been nice for some people, but we didn't get anything like the monolouge from Episdoe 14. Quite frankly, asdie from Shinji and maybe Gendo, Rebuild has yet to spend any substantial time in other characters heads.

Oh yeah, and before someone else has the chance: "WAAAH, THEY CUT BACK ON MY Misato!" (anyone who thinks otherwise needs to watch the series again) "WAAAH, THEY NULLED MY RITSUKO!" (seriously. She is not a character anymore) and of course "WAAAH, THEY CHANGED MY Asuka!" (i'm trying to be as objective as possible, but i would be lying if i were to say that there aren't any changes i feel bitter about. Or at least changes i would have loved to see done differently).

[Sailor Star Dust]

Rei's more sociable (to the point of wanting Shinji and Gendo to get along), Shinji's not as depressed as in the series (he doesn't mope about nearly as much, though he if something seriously bad happens. Otherwise he IMO, has more of a "Keeping to myself" kind of mentality instead of his depression preventing him from acknowledging other people.), Asuka's something of a true tsundere and more open about her feelings to Shinji (well, at least to Rei and sort of Misato. But of course, not Shinji himself).

ALTHOUGH it is true that what SaltyJoe said: Despite changes to the characters, we aren't at the point in Rebuild where we're able to seriously get inside their heads (and there's also the fact characters like Misato and Ritsuko are seriously axed). We probably won't be able to until the film-series ends...

TL/DR: It's hard to say if the characters are improved for better or worse. At the very least, they are made to be more accessible and not as mentally fucked-up as their NGE counterparts. I personally feel the Rebuild characters are still the NGE characters, but they're taken in different directions from the series. As such, they're going to react differently to situations as a result.

[Lucretius]

The only decent, reasonably well executed idea Rebuild had was fleshing out Rei's relationship with Shinji. To be honest, they didn't even do much of that, compared to the corresponding episodes of the series. Did we learn anything aout Rei we couldn't have inferred from the original? Eh, not really. And everything else is worse.

[SaltyJoe]

Did we learn anything aout Rei we couldn't have inferred from the original?

Though it could be argued (and it was argued, several times, by myself amongst others) that Rebuild is for the old time fans, officially, it is a reboot/reimagining. So, though the thread's question is whether or not we see improvments over the series in Webuild, dissing it for not expanding on previous knowledgs is kinda unfair.

Also, i think that 2.0 could have done lots of things much better in terms of character development, but i have to say that i find Gendo's handling to be better than in the series. He wasn't overexposed, but he did get a good showing, we got a glimpse into his philosophies, they managed to avoid lifting pages from the manga for his characterization, and most importantly, we had a whiff of his motivations (the "Why?"-s are the department in which Rebuild is pretty short, as of yet). So yeah, Rebuild!Gendo is the single character whose handling i'm completely pleased with.

[Grimmjow]

One thing where I think they improved on Shinji's character was the battle with Eva unit 03. In the original, many of us were not that sympathetic with ole Shinji. After all he didn't know who was in unit 03. Could have been anyone.

In 2.0, he is clearly aware that it is Asuka who is piloting Eva 03 so it gives much more emotional impact than in the original and it makes Shinji appear a whee bit less whiny.

Keep in mind that the original series spent a great deal of time with the characters expressing self loathing. This new movie wants to put that aside.

Developing every single character the same way the series did is frankly impossible. The series had several episodes that were just devoted to one character. It's far more difficult to do that in an hour and 48 minutes movie.

[Reichu]

After all he didn't know who was in unit 03. Could have been anyone.

Just because you think Shinji should be okay with taking out an Angel-possessed, anonymously "piloted" Eva, that doesn't mean Shinji is gonna be okay with it. Shinji is Shinji. Shinji is not you.

[Azathoth]

In the original, many of us were not that sympathetic with ole Shinji. After all he didn't know who was in unit 03. Could have been anyone.

? That makes me feel more sympathy for Shinji, not less. He can't kill anyone, not even someone that for all he knows he's never met before. Everything Shinji does in Rebuild feels actively selfish, acting in his own interests, as opposed to NGE Shinji, who was more passively selfish - refusing to act for anyone else's interests.

Keep in mind that the original series spent a great deal of time with the characters expressing self loathing. This new movie wants to put that aside.

True, but fuck me if I know why.

Developing every single character the same way the series did is frankly impossible. The series had several episodes that were just devoted to one character. It's far more difficult to do that in an hour and 48 minutes movie.

I don't ask that every single character be developed to the extent they were in the show. Expanding Ritsuko's character a la NGE in a movie series is virtually impossible. All I ask is that the character development they do undertake makes a degree of sense.

[KaaVI]

I love the fact that Kaworu is getting a bigger and longer role, also we might see more interaction between him and Shinji "I will make you happy!"

Im loving the improvements to the eva designs, making them slightly more human like, giving them slightly better proportions.

Some of the angels designs are also greatly improved, such as Ramiel's design, with the form changes and the screams. And the more sinister and intimidating changes to Zeurel.

I like the Beast mode additions to unit 02 and the inclusion of Asuka as the test pilot for unit 04, i didn't like Touji much.

I would like to see the re-introduction of Israfel and have a better choreographed dance piece.

[Grimmjow]

? That makes me feel more sympathy for Shinji, not less. He can't kill anyone, not even someone that for all he knows he's never met before. Everything Shinji does in Rebuild feels actively selfish, acting in his own interests, as opposed to NGE Shinji, who was more passively selfish - refusing to act for anyone else's interests.

Because refusing to kill one of your friends is completely and utterly selfish, he should have listened to daddy.

I don't ask that every single character be developed to the extent they were in the show. Expanding Ritsuko's character a la NGE in a movie series is virtually impossible. All I ask is that the character development they do undertake makes a degree of sense.

I fail to see what you mean. Rei's new personality makes sense. The only major difference between her personality in NGE and in Rebuild is that she has less of a Thanatos complex and she's more assertive. Same thing with Shinji, he's more assertive and willing to stand up for himself. He still has the same issue of, "Why do I pilot this thing?" Rei's attempts to bridge the gap between Shinji and Gendo is also significant. However her attempts are futile in the end because Gendo is still the same jerk as always.

Asuka hasn't had the time to develop yet. Atm, it appears she's gone through far less trauma than during the original.

[SaltyJoe]

Developing every single character the same way the series did is frankly impossible. The series had several episodes that were just devoted to one character. It's far more difficult to do that in an hour and 48 minutes movie.

True, but i have to dig up my main gripe with this movie: it's just so damn wasteful. A lot, and i mean a LOT of time is spent with stuff that adds nothing to anything: the aquarium scene could have been half it's length, the Asuka/Pen-Pen encounter could have been cut all together, and i still hold by my previous statement that the screentime Touji and Kensuke got is just ungodly.

Because refusing to kill one of your friends is completely and utterly selfish, he should have listened to daddy.

I'm being semantic here, but that's something that Shinji doesn't do . But yeah, Shinji does have his fair share of selfish moments.

Which is fine by me. He is a confused, emotionally needy adolescent being used as a pawn in a game that's well out of the depth of even the main players. If he were to suddenly become Hero McGoodygood, i would utterly lose my interest in him.

Rei & Shinji

I agree that their development makes sense in the context of these movies. Whether that's an imrpovement over the series is a matter of taste. Though Rei's own thoughts could have been given more focus.

Asuka

I have one serious problem with her development: her transition from "I RULE!" to "I DON'T RULE!" is kinda forced. To put it bluntly, her nose just wasn't bloodied enough.

I would like to see the re-introduction of Israfel and have a better choreographed dance piece.

I can tell you right here and now that that ain't going to happen.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Asuka might still be able to pilot, yes, but I wouldn't say injuries and possible mindrape from Bardiel (note the word being sung by the chorus when Bardi attacks Eva-01) are less trauma than Arael mind-rape and a low-synch rate. Equal trauma, I'd say.

Though she does seem to bounce back (Eyepatch Asuka goes ) according to the Q preview...which could be another mock-up preview. >_>

SaltyJoe: If Anno's smart, at least some of the newly added 3 minutes to 2.22 will be spent on Asuka.

[SaltyJoe]

Equal trauma, I'd say.

I think he meant that there are no signs of the "Kyoko/doll/hanging" childhood trauma. But there are signs of some trauma. She does state that she spent most of her life alone, that being with other people is difficult for her, and that she doesn't want to pretend being happy when she isn't. So my guess is that she still has a traumatic childhood, just somewhat different from the original version.

[ran1]

After seeing 2.0, I've come to the following conclusion:

I feel as if with NGE I'm looking at Shakespeare's Macbeth: One of my favorite, most intellectually stimulating, most influential pieces of creative work that has even been printed. With Rebuild, I more or less see an interpretation of the series in a much different light, like Akira Kurosawa's Throne of Blood, or Polanski's interpretation of Macbeth. Rebuild, like the cinematic versions of Macbeth, is a much more visual experience, for, arguably, a new generation of anime fans who respond to this kind of presentation. And I think on some levels, our director Anno-san is not the same person as well. With different characters but still, in a structural sense, the same kind of "journey" on the part of Shinji, I think Rebuild is destined for a much more different future in the realm of discussion and study. And this difference weakens it on a certain level, of which I'm not entirely sure of yet.

If that wasn't at all coherent, I apologize, I'll probably have a much more refined review of it after I finish with some work on the Wiki.

[Grimmjow]

True, but i have to dig up my main gripe with this movie: it's just so damn wasteful. A lot, and i mean a LOT of time is spent with stuff that adds nothing to anything: the aquarium scene could have been half it's length, the Asuka/Pen-Pen encounter could have been cut all together, and i still hold by my previous statement that the screentime Touji and Kensuke got is just ungodly.

Idk, I enjoyed the aquarium scene. It's main feature was to provide a different alternative to episode 8. It's true that the movie did waste time at certain points but I believe it was aiming for the comic relief that was injected into episodes 8-19 in the series. I found the movie to be reasonably paced. Touji and Kensuke were completely useless of course. I agree their screentime should have cut down considerably.

I'm being semantic here, but that's something that Shinji doesn't do . But yeah, Shinji does have his fair share of selfish moments.

Which is fine by me. He is a confused, emotionally needy adolescent being used as a pawn in a game that's well out of the depth of even the main players. If he were to suddenly become Hero McGoodygood, i would utterly lose my interest in him.

It's fine by me as well. It's hard to be selfless after all when you hate yourself.

I agree that their development makes sense in the context of these movies. Whether that's an imrpovement over the series is a matter of taste. Though Rei's own thoughts could have been given more focus.

Actions speak louder than words. Rei's actions reveal more of her character than viewing her confusing thoughts ever would. In addition, the movie already tells us that Rei views herself as replaceable. She says as much during Shinji's GAR moment.

I have one serious problem with her development: her transition from "I RULE!" to "I DON'T RULE!" is kinda forced. To put it bluntly, her nose just wasn't bloodied enough.


I can tell you right here and now that that ain't going to happen.

Well she's far less angry and full of herself than she was in the series. In essence, she goes in with less of an attitude than before, then she realizes, "Well I guess you guys aren't as bad as I thought." In the original series, her behavior was a direct result from her trauma as a child. With her last name changed, her background also must be different. There's also the fact that Asuka doesn't hate dolls anymore. The movie shows us that doll that she carries with her.

Everyone is more emotionally stable in Rebuild. Although that could all change... which is precisely the problem with 2.0. It's far too early to say what's going to happen at all. We don't even know what Shinji's experience inside Eva unit 01 will be like. It could be mindrape, Shinji's faptastic adventure into Rei booby land or something in between.

[Reichu]

I think I'm going to wait until New Movie Edition is finished before I even contemplate the notion of whether the story or characters have been "improved". Whatever "improved" means. (I get the feeling it's just a euphemism for "I happen to like it this way better".)

Considering how much 2.XX threw people in for a loop, futile discussion is futile. But we're still going to get people strongly in support of or against this and that about the movies, based on what they've seen so far and whatever they want to believe about where they might go, even though they might turn out to be totally wrong. Ambivalence is easier -- but I guess not as "fun"?

I haven't even been paying attention to the characterization factor so far. I just can't bring myself to care. My apathy reminds me a little of how I feel about the manga. "So what if they look the same... These aren't the people I originally came to care about. I can't be bothered to give a shit." I'm totally open to revisiting the films later, when things are a bit more convenient, and perhaps getting a bit more engaged. But right now, the most I can manage to be interested in are various plot machinations, eye/ear candy, and the like.

[Azathoth]

Because refusing to kill one of your friends is completely and utterly selfish, he should have listened to daddy.

When he knows perfectly well the fate of the entire world is at stake, damn straight it's selfish. It was selfish of him in the original series, too, although less so.

Shinji does not in any way object to violence as long as he's in charge of it; witness his vicious attack on Zeruel the very next day after the Bardiel incident. But when he'd have to hurt himself, sully himself, by taking the life of another human being - oh, no, suddenly he becomes the model of pacifism. Even though he knows that people have been collateral damage in his battles previously, even though he knows that he is fighting to save all of humanity - nope, he'd rather die than kill someone else, not because he cares about other people (I mean, he didn't even know who was in 03) but because he doesn't want to take responsibility for his actions.

Shinji even realizes that he objects to killing for the wrong reasons. In EoE, during his motivational chat with Misato, he says outright that he can't kill people because he "doesn't have the right" to. And whether killing people is ever right in real life is a discussion I am absolutely uninterested into getting into right now, but honestly, is there any way you can say that Gendou made the wrong choice in activating the dummy plug? You could argue that maybe Unit 01 would have gone berserk on its own, but honestly, depending on the whims of Yui "GROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAR" Ikari in a combat situation is about as reasonable as...well, killing the entire human race so that you can hang out with your wife inside the body of a clone of God.

tl;dr Shinji wants to avoid fighting Unit 03 not because he cares about Asuka (I mean for fuck's sake, in Rebuild he met her like two weeks before this happened and all she's done so far is insult him, trip him, then hop into bed with him and pretty much confess her undying (and in Rebuild even more nonsensical than in NGE) love for him) but because he doesn't want to have to face up to his own actions later.

[Gamer_2k4]

I liked how Asuka's character was the same overall, but portrayed more realistically. I think the new Asuka is less generic and more representative of what Anno was going for in the first place.