Higher Education in Japan/ the US

[Holy Diver]

(Split from the "Only in Japan" thread)

Oh boy. Whole lot of people that needs to be purged/forcibly expelled for the upkeep of the honour/image of Japan. (And maybe a bit of nice tweakings in the education system.... I sigh)

Your education system? Come to America for a few months for a high-quality education.

[The Imperialist]

I hate to admit it, but the US education system (especially university-level) is much better.

[ran1]

I hate to admit it, but the US education system (especially university-level) is much better.

lolwut?

America pumps out uncultured, untrained bourgeois fools every June out of its secondary "education" system and then sends them off to university to be raped by difficult classes and professors with intellect every fall. The system is completely and utterly broken. There is a very notable problem of impoverished urban students who show great potential being shot down at public schools which teach next to nothing.

I've heard quite a bit about the competitiveness of Japanese schooling, and I am under the impression that one actually learns something during school hours, which is next to impossible in American schools unless they are wealthy and private.

[The Imperialist]

In Japan, they cram you with information that is only really useful in making 'elite' pen pushers.
In America (well, university wise) they actually push you, while in Japan, it is kind of "Even if you don't turn up to any classes, you will get out of university." The only courses with any substance is the scientifc ones.

[ran1]

Well, America's fine for university (Though I've heard excellent things about schools in Denmark, Belgium and France) but the secondary system prepares one in no way for the rigors of college. Me doing well in college will probably be more determined on my own independent studies over what my high school has provided me with. And I go to a pretty elite school on an uber-scholarship, so for what it's worth, that's just my perspective.

[planet news]

America's bigger universidads are falling under the corporate shadow by giving way too much of their money to outsourced research.

I read this "somewhere". c u next year.

[BrikHaus]

Well, America's fine for university (Though I've heard excellent things about schools in Denmark, Belgium and France) but the secondary system prepares one in no way for the rigors of college. Me doing well in college will probably be more determined on my own independent studies over what my high school has provided me with. And I go to a pretty elite school on an uber-scholarship, so for what it's worth, that's just my perspective.

The U.S. university system is generally considered to be one of the best in the world. Droves of foreigners come here to get a post-secondary education, and then return to their home countries.

Facing facts, college/university isn't all that difficult and isn't all that rigorous. It really comes down to motivation. If you are motivated to go to class and study on your own, then you do well in college. If not, then you fail. Motivation is something they can't teach in school.

[MugwumpHasNoLiver]

My gripe with the public school system (and I'm sure that this applies to private schools too, but what do I know?) is that they only teach students how to do well on standardized tests. Schools only teach you how to do better in school, train your mind to adapt to only one train of thought, in one environment, and that's how to do better where you are or where you're going, which for most is College. You see, that creates hordes of semi-lobotomized drones who can't think for themselves, and are only capable of succeeding in a classroom setting, not in the real world. Doing well in school only ensures that you how to find answers in textbooks, not how to solve problems of your own vocation. It's a vicious cycle where the intelligent (or maybe just hardworking, but only in relation to school-work)become desperate, timid, conformist suck-ups and all the others who can't function in that setting become apathetic, lazy, conformist morons who can only learn from their peers. This country cannot survive unless it somehow manages to overcome its raging standardized test fetish.

College is better, though, at least the one I was at. It's all practical technique and thought and blah, blah, blah.

[THE Hal E. Burton 9000]

Well, America's fine for university (Though I've heard excellent things about schools in Denmark, Belgium and France) but the secondary system prepares one in no way for the rigors of college. Me doing well in college will probably be more determined on my own independent studies over what my high school has provided me with. And I go to a pretty elite school on an uber-scholarship, so for what it's worth, that's just my perspective.

American education at the elementary and secondary puts (IMO) too great an emphasis on social conditioning and "self-esteem" as opposed to the three R's or general knowledge

America's bigger universidads are falling under the corporate shadow by giving way too much of their money to outsourced research.

this is a problem, but right now that's where all the money is

[Uriel Septim VII]

The U.S. university system is generally considered to be one of the best in the world. Droves of foreigners come here to get a post-secondary education, and then return to their home countries.

Look at virtually any listing of the best universities in the world. You'll usually find English, UC, and Ivy League universities filling the first twenty or so spots.

Facing facts, college/university isn't all that difficult and isn't all that rigorous. It really comes down to motivation. If you are motivated to go to class and study on your own, then you do well in college. If not, then you fail. Motivation is something they can't teach in school.

It's true that one's high school experience has little bearing on their excellence in higher education. I know more than one person who has gone to a continuation high school and is now a top grade student at a high end university. The whole curriculum has been shaped over the centuries to be most palatable to the highest percentage of people; otherwise most who enter would give up due to the confusion. What we have today is people who give up because they are unmotivated, blase, or pessimistic.

[skikes]

I hate to admit it, but the US education system (especially university-level) is much better.

LOL

...americans are so unself-aware.

[ran1]

After looking through the wikipedia page on Japanese Secondary Education, it seems like their cirriculums are much more competitive and more difficult that American ones. But whether or not they are actually learning anything from it is another story entirely.

Motivation is something they can't teach in school.

Err, it can be rewarded, though. It just isn't rewarded appropriately.

[Defectron]

Actually based off what I've read of the Japanese school system on the gaijinsmash website, I've got to say that as awful as our schoolsystem is imp may actually be right!

YOU ARE SHOCK!

I would find a link, but I'm too lazy right now since I'm tired from work, if your really curious do a google search for gaijinsmash, I think the site moved to a new domain though.

[Bomby von Bombsville]

American universities rock. Believe me. I go to a highly ranked public university (University of Wisconsin-Madison), and it's rocking my laziness in the face as we speak.

[backseatjesus]

If the American education system is great, how come it makes me want to kill myself sometimes? 90% of the people involved with the American education system only care about test scores. That it. They don't give a shit about teaching kids, they just want to flaunt on how "superior" the American race is to other countries. I'm seriously tired of this bullshit.

edit: And my opinion may be wrong, but my God, it sometimes just feels good to talk shit about the American education system.

[Themaninblack]

After looking through the wikipedia page on Japanese Secondary Education, it seems like their cirriculums are much more competitive and more difficult that American ones. But whether or not they are actually learning anything from it is another story entirely.



Err, it can be rewarded, though. It just isn't rewarded appropriately.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah, the idea of Japan having an excellant school system is pure fantasy. You do know that their is basically no way to punish/fail/do anything to a student there? While some do emerge from their schooling years as the stereotypical 'Genius Asian', most are insanely apathetic and unprepared for the real world. Way more than American highschool graduates.


EDIT: As for why it feels good to talk shit about the American school system, its quite simple. Just because its one of the best humanity has to offer DOES NOT MAKE it good. It still sucks balls. Its just as bad as many other countries.

[skikes]

the American education system only care about test scores. That it. They don't give a shit about teaching kids, they just want to flaunt on how "superior" the American race is to other countries.

Yes but your test scores suck... well not suck, but average.

And on the global playing field, the "We're No. 1" honors go to Finland, Japan and Korea - places where the football spurring deep passions is round, not oblong. Finland, Japan and Korea were the top finishers in an OECD (www.oecd.org) study that measured 265,000 15-year-olds' literacy in reading, mathematics and science (see charts accompanying this feature).

U.S. fans fed up with the BCS may find little comfort in the OECD rankings. The apropos U.S. refrain would run something like, "We're No. . . . Ah, 'Bout Average, Dude, . . . Whatever." U.S. students finished 15th in reading, 19th in math and 14th in science - and in a study that only ranked 31 nations...

"Unfortunately, we are average across the board compared to other industrialized nations," said U.S. Secretary of Education Rod Paige. "

sauce: [url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=afc_1268675792[/url]

[NemZ]

90% of the people involved with the American education system only care about test scores.

That would be a direct result of 'no child left behind' and the standards movement.

You do know that their is basically no way to punish/fail/do anything to a student there?

Funny, that sounds almost exactly like my teaching experiences.

[Themaninblack]

Funny, that sounds almost exactly like my teaching experiences.

You can't even give them dentition in Japan. They could sing in class, verbally berate students openly and aloud, ect.

So its WAY worse over there. Once again, not saying the American school system is good, just the lesser of two evils.

[NemZ]

You can't even give them dentition in Japan.

What makes you think I could? The school didn't have a detention program... or any other program, really. Oh I'd send kids to the principal all right but he didn't do anything but send them back a few minutes later unless it was something that could get the school sued. I tried lunch detentions on my own, got in trouble with the school board. I tried to assign extra homework, principal says I can't make it count as a grade so kids ignore it. Punish the whole class? nope, must treat all sections of the same class equally. Call the parents? All I got from that was either a sob story or blunt denial.

Oh no, it's never the student's fault; I had a parent tell me once that it was unfair to give her son's paper a 0% because I didn't specifically say on the rubric that word-for-word plagiarism from a wiki article wasn't allowed.