NGE2: Alternate Outcome Translations [3I, Etc.]

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only.

Moderator: Board Staff

Hyper Shinchan
God
God
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 4774
Joined: Aug 07, 2005
Location: Bunga Bunga Republic
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:36 pm

View Original PostSomeone wrote:Yeah, who here feels like translating the part where Kaworu DOES NOT get crushed. :kawaii:

Do you mean the long rhetoric confrontation between Shinji and Kaworu in Shinji's 2nd and 3rd scenario?
Anyway I wonder if there's a "Labyrinth of Heart" ending for him:

Image

Someone
Sandalphon
Sandalphon
User avatar
Age: 22
Posts: 512
Joined: Apr 29, 2011
Location: Survivor Colony Somewhere
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Someone » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:02 pm

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:Do you mean the long rhetoric confrontation between Shinji and Kaworu in Shinji's 2nd and 3rd scenario?


I guess...yknow the part in NGE where he gets squeezed to death. :(
I'd like to see scenario where that does not happen.
DISCLAIMER: The above statement might or might not be serious.

Hyper Shinchan
God
God
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 4774
Joined: Aug 07, 2005
Location: Bunga Bunga Republic
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:44 am

View Original PostSomeone wrote:I guess...yknow the part in NGE where he gets squeezed to death. :(
I'd like to see scenario where that does not happen.

I've searched a little on nicovideo and I've found the sequence:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7337445
I can't help with the translation but it should give you a general impression (I didn't understand before that you didn't play the game), they just keep retorting things to each other.
The video comes from the PS2 version but I can confirm that the two versions are basically identical except for the better audio/video of the PS2 version and for its different interface (there weren't A.T. indicators during Kaworu's battle in Another Cases, unless I'm terribly mistaken).

EDIT.: Reichu mentioned in her first posts the requirements for the "Labyrinth of Heart " endings and that she didn't know if they're present in the PSP version; I could try to check them by myself once I finish Shigeru's scenario (the last one that I'm still lacking).

Reichu
Space-Time Teratoma
Space-Time Teratoma
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 22492
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: 高地園、新槍ノ島
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:21 pm

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:Anyway I wonder if there's a "Labyrinth of Heart" ending for him:

I'll have to sniff around on the FAQs to see how many characters can get it.

BTW, for whoever doesn't have NicoVideo access, I've posted the Kaworu thing (my own recording of it) to my YouTube account.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK57XnOSQHQ

Sometime, because I'm absolutely insane, I'll compile all the possible dialogue options... which will probably end up being at least 20 minutes of Shinji and Kaworu babbling at each other. I should probably post the "lose to Kaworu" and "kill Kaworu" stuff first, though...
Avatar: Guu is uncertain...
Crying Man
(Or, How Dr. Katsuragi Found God): Read at AO3 & Discuss Here.
Status: First Draft. Chapter 10: Idle Hands released 5/24/2017.

"Fighting idiocy is like fighting a hydra. Cut off one head, two more grow back and need to tell you their uninformed opinion." - PeeJee, Something*Positive

Reichu
Space-Time Teratoma
Space-Time Teratoma
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 22492
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: 高地園、新槍ノ島
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:19 pm

The PS2 FAQ that I have lying around tentatively suggests that all characters can get the Labyrinth of Heart ending. I suppose I'll need to do some Googling for this one.

In preparation for possible subtitling, I'm trying to translate more shit (instead of doing much better things with my time).

Angel Ending (previously untranslated stuff)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oyb7ytwRN4

EDIT: I've since incorporated this into the original post.

SPOILER: Show
Misato: Eva-04, move to Area G-1!*
*[This is just crap that Misato shouts at you when you're playing as a pilot. You learn to ignore it quickly.]

Aoba: Target has breached the zero area! It’s heading for the Geofront!

Misato: Withdraw the Evas into the Geofront by linear rail! Prepare for an ambush attack!

***

Hyuga: Angel has invaded the Geofront. Currently on a direct trajectory for Headquarters!

Hyuga: Lifting up Evas!

Hyuga: Eva lift-up completed. Pilots are making ambush preparations!

Aoba: Nerv Headquarters has taken a hit!

***

(After the screen turns red and three captions display)

Kaworu: I'm being called... Ahh, I've been approved. [For HIP?]
I'm at the place to which I must return.

[Shinji and Asuka stuff is the same as in the Good Ending]

***

(After we see GNR sucking souls into her forehead)

Kaworu: This place is— I see. We’re here.

Asuka: What is this place…?


Japanese Stuff

SPOILER: Show
ミサト「四号機、G-1エリアに移動して!」

青葉「目標、ゼロエリアを突破!
ジオフロントに向かっています!」

ミサト「エヴァは、リニアレールからジオフロントまで撤退!
迎撃態勢を取って!」

日向「使徒、ジオフロントに侵入。
本部へ真っ直ぐ接近中!」

日向「エヴァ、リフトアップ!」

日向「エヴァ、リフトアップ完了。
パイロットは、迎撃準備を!」

青葉「ネルフ本部、167のダメージ!」(ネルフ本部、攻撃受けています!)

***

カヲル「呼んでいる…。ああ、僕は許されたんだ…。
帰るべき場所が、僕にはあったんだ…。」

***

カヲル「ここは…。…そうか、ここは。」
アスカ「ここ、どこなんだろう…。」


This next one doesn't quite fit into the original topic orientation of alt 3I/HIP things, but someone brought it up, and I guess alternate OUTCOMES to NGE events is a fair extension of this thread's scope...

Tabris Battle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK57XnOSQHQ

There's a LOT of back-and-forth between Shinji and Kaworu (with the former being an emotional wreck and the latter being all cool n' shit, and them mostly talking past each other), with many, many possible dialogue paths. Unfortunately, most of them will end with you crushing Kaworu, so I'm just going to translate one of the few possibilities in which that won't happen.

Please ignore the time stamps.

SPOILER: Show
(Black screen)

Kaworu:
00:01 Let’s go. Come with me, child of Adam and servant of Lilith…

**

(Cinematic starts)

Hyuga:
00:12 Eva Unit 02 has activated!

Fuyutsuki:
00:15 What?!

Ibuki:
00:16 Eva-02 is moving unmanned. There’s no entry plug inserted!

Misato:
00:23 No one’s in there? What’s going on?!

Hyuga:
00:26 We’ve detected an A.T. Field spreading in Central Dogma.

Misato:
00:31 Eva-02?

Hyuga:
00:33 Pattern Blue. It’s definitely an Angel.

Misato:
00:36 What the hell?!

Titles:
00:38 The 17th Angel
00:42 Tabris

Misato:
00:44 That boy… is an Angel?

Gendo:
00:46 Prevent the target from entering Terminal Dogma using any means necessary!

Fuyutsuki:
00:54 Who’d have guessed that Seele would send it directly to us.

Gendo:
00:58 So, the old men intend to advance their scenario one step with our own hands.

***

(Switches to battle mode with Evas and Angel represented as little icons over endlessly scrolling cross-section of main shaft)

Aoba:
1:12 Target is currently descending Central Dogma.
1:14 It's heading for Terminal Dogma!

Misato:
1:18 Shinji-kun, hurry! Stop him!

(Fight with Eva-02 starts)

1:26 Punch
1:34 Defense Successful
1:38 Cut with Prog Knife
1:54 Talk to Tabris

(Switches to dialogue selection screen)

1:57 O - You betrayed me!

Shinji:
1:59 You betrayed me…
2:00 You betrayed my feelings!!

Kaworu:
2:05 Shinji-kun,
2:07 like you, I am a child who is part of the plan.
2:09 We both exist for that reason.
2:12 You reached this point in accordance with its guidelines.

Shinji:
2:16 I don’t care about that!
2:19 I really thought that I’d be able to trust you more, and we’d get to know each other better.

Kaworu:
2:26 And therefore, you were betrayed?
2:29 What did you expect from me?

2:33 O – You didn’t care about how I felt

Shinji:
2:35 You didn’t care about how I felt…!
2:38 Even though I trusted you…
2:41 But, did you approach me planning this from the start?

Kaworu:
2:48 I merely happen to be in the flow called Destiny.
2:52 Like you and all the Lilin of this world.

Shinji:
2:57 I still want to believe in you, Kaworu-kun…

Kaworu:
3:04 However, you are confused.
3:07 For I am the enemy of you Lilin.

3:13 X - People’s feelings don’t matter to me

Shinji:
3:15 People’s feelings don’t matter to me.

Kaworu:
3:19 Do my feelings matter?
3:22 To you Lilin?

Shinji:
3:24 So we shouldn’t be fighting.
3:27 If we can do that, we can even be together.
[“People’s feelings don’t matter to me, so we shouldn’t be fighting”? Non sequitur, much? ]

Kaworu:
3:31 That isn’t possible.
3:33 Because it is our will.
[“Our” is ambiguous. Shinji and Kaworu? Kaworu and the other Angels…?]

3:37 X – Don’t dodge the issue!

Shinji:
3:39 Don’t dodge the issue!
3:41 Don’t brush off my feelings like that!!
[symbv provides an alternate translation of, “Don't deceive me. Don't deceive my feelings like that!!!” I’m using a different sense ofごまかす , at least for now.]

Kaworu:
3:46 It’s because Lilin and Despair cannot look each other in the face.

Shinji:
3:51 Don’t close off your heart like that!

Kaworu:
3:55 …………….
3:58 Shinji-kun, you just don’t understand.

(Switches back to battle screen)

4:05 Talk to Tabris

(Back to dialogue selection screen)

4:09 X - It’s all a lie

Shinji:
4:11 It’s a lie. Kaworu-kun being an Angel can’t be true…

Kaworu:
4:18 I was given worth as an Angel.
4:21 That is now my reason for being.

4:28 O – Weren’t we friends?

Shinji:
4:30 I thought we were friends.
4:35 I thought that we could keep being friends, instead of things coming to this.

Kaworu:
4:40 That is the fear to which you cling. And it is your hope, as well.
4:45 Walking alongside you Lilin is something I cannot do.

4:51 O – That has nothing to do with this

Shinji:
4:54 That has nothing to do with this.
4:57 Hey, Kaworu-kun, how do you feel about me?

Kaworu:
5:02 I like you, Shinji-kun.

5:12 X – I was happy to meet you

Shinji:
5:14 Meeting you made me happy.
5:19 I think you were what I’d been looking for, and that made me happy.

Kaworu:
5:24 I was glad to have met you, as well.
5:29 And at the same time, it made me sad.

Shinji:
5:32 …………

Kaworu:
5:36 But I won’t be able to forget you, no matter how great the sorrow.

Kaworu:
5:44 ………Shinji-kun.

:shinji_boohoo:

(Battle screen)

5:52 Punch
6:02 Defense Failed
6:09 Cut with Prog Knife
6:25 Talk to Tabris

(Dialogue screen)

6:29 X – It’s all a lie
6:42 O – Weren’t we friends?

6:52 X - So then, why?

Shinji:
6:54 Why did you speak to me?
6:57 Why did you approach me?

Kaworu:
7:02 I was intrigued.
7:04 Knowing that you were pure of heart… I wanted to love you.

Shinji:
7:10 We don’t need to be up against each other like this.

Kaworu:
7:14 That’s true.
7:16 But even so, I must go. [That sounds weird…]
7:20 To death, or so that I can keep living.

7:27 O – Are you glad to be alive?

Shinji:
7:29 Kaworu-kun, do you enjoy being alive?

Kaworu:
7:34 …………

(Battle screen)

7:39 Punch

(Kaworu’s icon takes off)

Shinji:
7:47 Kaworu-kun!

(Kaworu looks over his shoulder forlornly)

Kaworu:
7:50 …………

Shinji:
7:51 Wait for me, Kaworu-kun!

(Lilith on the cross)

Kaworu:
8:03 This……. is Adam…
8:07 No… It’s Lilith?!

(Kaworu is suddenly in Eva-01’s hand, and we’re back at the dialogue menu.)

8:15 □ - Why?

Shinji:
8:17 Why?
8:18 Why are you an Angel, Kaworu-kun?

Kaworu:
8:23 As I told you [??], I’m one of the children who is part of the design.

8:29 X - I don’t want to fight you

Shinji:
8:31 Kaworu-kun, I don’t want to fight you.

Kaworu:
8:37 Why is that?
8:39 So, why not try to stop me?

8:43 O – I don’t want to hurt you

Shinji:
8:45 Because I don’t want to hurt you.

Kaworu:
8:50 What if YOU get hurt?

Shinji:
8:53 Yeah, that’s right. It’s okay if I die!
[Why is he responding with 「ああ、そうだよ。」? It sounds rather weird to me.]

Kaworu:
8:57 I don’t believe that.
8:59 Surely you are afraid of dying.

9:06 X – Tell me that you won’t go!!

Shinji:
9:08 Tell me that you won’t go!! Please!
9:11 At this rate, I’ll be forced to fight you.

Kaworu:
9:16 If that’s the case, then perhaps it can be avoided. [??]
9:19 Fighting you doesn’t feel right to me, either, but…

Kaworu:
9:25 There is something within people that makes them feel that they need others. [??]
9:32 That is the only reason. [??]
9:35 However, as far as those things are concerned, all people are breathtakingly pure. [??]
9:43 To the point of desolation.

Shinji:
9:48 Does that mean we are going to fight after all…?
[How are they going to fight now that Kaworu is helpless in Eva-01’s fist? :3]

X – It’s all a lie
[blah blah blah, navigated this dialogue already]

X – I don’t understand
[skipped through this by accident, but I’ll try translating it anyway]

Shinji:
I don’t understand.
Things like you becoming an Angel, even though you have a will of your own. [??]

Kaworu:
But my being an Angel is a matter of fact. And so is my friendship with you.
I am left with no recourse but to go against the flow. [Is this right?]

O – Let’s start it over, together

Shinji:
You and I will start over. We’ll live differently. Both of us.
Let’s start things over together, Kaworu-kun…

Kaworu:
……….

(His AT reaches 100.)

Kaworu:
……….
I want to see the future, too.
I want to see your future, Shinji-kun. With all of you, with people…
……
Shinji-kun, I’m going to live, too. Live and fight, by your side... *
[*Rearranged a bit, but hopefully gets the point across.]

***

Main (?) Battle Damage Report

Eva Unit 01: heavily damaged
Pilot of same, Shinji Ikari: heavily wounded

In light of the above, Shinji Ikari has been hospitalized.



Japanese:
SPOILER: Show
カヲル「さあ、行くよ。おいで、アダムの分身、そしてリリスのしもべ…。」

日向「エヴァ弐号機、起動!」
冬月「何だと…!?」
伊吹「弐号機にはエントリープラグが挿入されていません。無人で動いています!」
ミサト「誰もいない?どういう事!!」
日向「セントラルドグマに、A.T. フィールドの発生を確認!」
ミサト「弐号機?」
日向「パターン青。間違いありません。使徒です。」
ミサト「何ですって?」

第拾七使徒
タブリス

ミサト「使徒?あの少年が?」
ゲンドウ「いかなる方法を以ってしても、目標のターミナルドグマへの進入を阻止しろ!」
冬月「まさか、セーレが直接送んでくるとはな。」
ゲンドウ「やはり老人は予定を一つ繰り上げるつもりだ。我々の手で。」

青葉「目標、セントラルドグマを降下中!
ターミナルドグマに向かっています!」
ミサト「シンジ君。
早く、彼を止めて!」

パンチ攻撃

防衛成功

プログナイフで切る

タブリスと対話する

○裏切ったな!

シンジ「裏切ったな…。僕の気持ちを裏切ったな!!」
カヲル「…シンジ君。
君と同じ仕組まれた子供なんだ。
そのために僕も君もいる。
君は着てくれた。
筋書き通りに。」
シンジ「そんな事どうでもいいよ!
信じてたんだ、もっと君とは信じて知り合う事が出来るって。」
カヲル「だから裏切ったと…?
僕に何を期待していたんだい。」

○僕の気持ちを踏みにじったんだ

シンジ「僕の気持ちを踏みにじった…!
君を信じてたのに…。
でも、カヲル君は最初からこうするつもりで僕に近づいたの?」
カヲル「僕はただ、さだめ、という流れにいるだけさ。
君や、この世界すべてのリリンのように。」
シンジ「僕は今でも…、信じたいんだ。カヲル君を…。」
カヲル「でも、君は迷っている。僕が君たちリリンの敵だから。」

X人の気持ちなんてどうでもいいんだ

シンジ「人の気持ちなんてどうでもいいんだ。」
カヲル「僕の気持ちはどうでもいいのかい?
君たちリリンは。」
シンジ「だから、戦わないで…。
一緒にいる事だって出来る。」
カヲル「それは出来ない。
これが僕らの意志だから。」

Xごまかさないで

シンジ「ごまかさないで、そうやって僕の気持ちをごまかさないでよ!!」
カヲル「リリンは、絶望と向き合う事が出来ないからね。」
シンジ「そうやって、心を閉ざさないでよ!」
カヲル「……………。」

カヲル「…シンジにはわからないよ。」

タブリスと対話する

Xこんなの嘘だよね

シンジ「嘘だよね。カヲル君が使徒だったなんて、嘘だよね…。」
カヲル「僕は使徒としての価値を与えられた。
それが今、僕の存在している理由なんだ。」

○友達じゃなかったの?

シンジ「僕は、君の事を友達だと思ってた。
こんな事にならずにずっと友達でいられると思ってた。」
カヲル「それは、君の抱いた恐れ。そして、希望。
僕は、君達リリンとは歩いてはいけないんだ。」

○そんなの関係ないよ

シンジ「…関係ないよ。ねえ、カヲル君は僕の事どう思ってるの…。」
カヲル「…好きだよ、シンジ君。君の事が。」

X君に出会って嬉しかったんだよ

シンジ「僕は、君に出会えた事が嬉しかったんだ。
僕が探していたのは君だったんだって、嬉しかったんだ。」
カヲル「僕も君に出会えて嬉しかったよ。同時に、悲しみもあった。」
シンジ「…………。」
カヲル「でも、どんなに悲しくても君の事を忘れる事なんて出来ない。」

カヲル「………シンジ君。」

パンチ攻撃
防御失敗
プログナイフを切る
タブリスと対話する

Xこんなの嘘だよね
○友達じゃなかったの?

Xなのに、何故

シンジ「なぜ僕に声をかけたの?
なぜ僕に近づいたの?」
カヲル「興味があったんだよ。純粋な思いで君を知って、…好きになりたかった。」
シンジ「僕たちが争う必要はないよ。」
カヲル「そうだね。ただ、僕は行けなきゃいけないんだ。
死に、そして生き続けるために。」

○生きていてうれしいの

シンジ「カヲル君は、生きる事が楽しいの?」
カヲル「……………。」

パンチ攻撃

シンジ「カヲル君!」
カヲル「………………。」
シンジ「待って、カヲル君!」

カヲル「これが………アダム………。
…いや、…これは、リリス!?」

□どうして?

シンジ「どうして?カヲル君が使徒なの?」
カヲル「言っただろ、僕が仕組まれた子供ということを。」

X君とは戦いたくない

シンジ「カヲル君、君とは戦いたくないよ。」
カヲル「なぜ?じゃあなぜ僕を止めようとするの?」

○君を傷つけたくない

シンジ「君を、傷つけたくないからだよ。」
カヲル「君が傷ついても?」
シンジ「ああ、そうだよ。僕は死んだっていい!」
カヲル「嘘だね。君は、死ぬのが怖いはずだ。」

X行かないって、言って!!

シンジ「行かないって言ってよ!!お願いだよ!
このままじゃ、君と戦う事になる。」
カヲル「だったら、しょうがないんじゃないかな。
僕も、君と戦うのはいい気分じゃないけれど…。」

カヲル「ヒトが…、互いを必要と思うのは
ヒトの中にある何かのためなんだ。
ただそれだけのためなんだ。
…でも、その何かに対して、ヒトはみな、息を呑むほどに純粋だ。
とても、哀しいほどに…。」
シンジ「やっぱり、戦うしかないの…?」

Xこんなの嘘だよね
Xわからないよ

シンジ「わからないよ。君の意志じゃないのに使徒になったなんて。」
カヲル「でも、僕が使徒なのは事実さ。君の友達という事も。
どうする事も出来ないんだ、流れには逆らえない。」

○一緒にやり直せばいい

シンジ「僕とやり直せるよ。違う生き方があるよ、僕も、君も。
一緒にやり直そうよ、カヲル君…。」
カヲル「………。」

カヲル「………。
僕も未来が見たい。
君達、人と…、シンジ君の未来を見てみたいと思う。
………。
シンジ君…、僕も君と生きよう。僕も一緒に戦うよ…。」

本戦闘の被害報告

エヴァ初号機、大破

同パイロット
碇シンジ、重傷

碇シンジ、
上記1名入院
Last edited by Reichu on Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

symbv
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Age: 49
Posts: 6513
Joined: Jul 27, 2010
Location: used to be TOKYO
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby symbv » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:51 am

Some comments from me. Some very minor and reflect more different translation preference...



Angel Ending (previously untranslated stuff)


Misato: Withdraw the Evas into the Geofront by linear rail! Prepare for an ambush attack!
ミサト「エヴァは、リニアレールからジオフロントまで撤退!
迎撃態勢を取って!」

- While 迎撃 can mean ambush, it can also mean interception or interdiction. I think interception is more appropriate here. EVA-01 is meeting Tabris head-on and does not look like it is attempting an ambush.


Aoba: Nerv Headquarters has taken a hit!
青葉「ネルフ本部、167のダメージ!」(ネルフ本部、攻撃受けています!)

- I see 167のダメージ was not translated. Perhaps it was left out because it is some game term?


Kaworu: I'm being called... Ahh, I've been approved. [For HIP?]
I'm at the place to which I must return.
カヲル「呼んでいる…。ああ、僕は許されたんだ…。
帰るべき場所が、僕にはあったんだ…。」

- I think the translation should be like:
It is calling for me... Ahh, I have been given permission....
I have found the place to which I should return...





Tabris Battle


Ibuki:
00:16 Eva-02 is unmanned. There’s no entry plug inserted!
伊吹「弐号機にはエントリープラグが挿入されていません。無人で動いています!」

- No issue here at all. Just want to tell everyone the literal translation is
"Eva-02 is not inserted with entry plug. It is moving unmanned!"


Gendo:
00:58 So, the old men hope to advance one of their plans by using us.
ゲンドウ「やはり老人は予定を一つ繰り上げるつもりだ。我々の手で。」

- If it is one of the plans, it would be written as 一つの予定.
My translation would be
So the old men want to move the plan up one step, using our hands.


Aoba:
1:12 Target is currently descending Central Dogma.
1:14 Its goal is Terminal Dogma!
青葉「目標、セントラルドグマを降下中!
ターミナルドグマに向かっています!」

- Very minor. Earlier 向かっています was translated as "heading for". I think we can keep that as the translation here. 向かっています means approaching but does not indicate where the goal is (although we all know that Tabris has Terminal Dogma as his goal)


Kaworu:
2:07 we are both children of preordained fate.
2:09 We exist for that reason.
2:12 You reached this point in accordance with overarching guidelines.
君と同じ仕組まれた子供なんだ。
そのために僕も君もいる。
君は着てくれた。
筋書き通りに。

- 仕組まれた is like being set up (for certain purpose) so is a bit different from preordained fate
also I would prefer to keep Kaworu's emphasis of 君 (you) which he mentioned three times here.
Also 着て is different from 来て. Unless it was a typo, we have to interpret it as 着て instead of 来て (which means "come" or "reach").
着る usually means "wear" but can also mean "bear (guilt/gratefulness/blame/indebtedness etc)"
My translation
Like you I am a child set up for that
Both you and I exist for that
You have borne it
just like the scenario has it



Shinji:
2:16 I don’t care about that!
2:19 I trusted you… And the more I trusted you, the more I could get to know you. [???]
シンジ「そんな事どうでもいいよ!
信じてたんだ、もっと君とは信じて知り合う事が出来るって。」

- って is linked back to 信じてた
My translation
I don’t care about that!
I have come to believe...that I could get to trust you and know each other more.



Shinji:
2:41 But did you approach me planning this from the start? [??]
でも、カヲル君は最初からこうするつもりで僕に近づいたの?

- Correct


Kaworu:
2:48 I am merely following the flow of what you call destiny.
僕はただ、さだめ、という流れにいるだけさ。

- という just means "something called" but not necessarily mean "what you call" (usually not)
My translation
I merely happen to be in the flow called "destiny"


Kaworu:
3:04 You, however, have lost your way.
3:07 For I am the enemy of you Lilin.
カヲル「でも、君は迷っている。僕が君たちリリンの敵だから。」

- 迷っている is more like "confused".
My translation
However, you are confused. For I am the enemy of you Lilin.


Shinji:
3:15 People’s feelings don’t matter at all. [??]
Kaworu:
3:19 Do my feelings not make a difference,
3:22 where you Lilin are concerned? [??]
シンジ「人の気持ちなんてどうでもいいんだ。」
カヲル「僕の気持ちはどうでもいいのかい?
君たちリリンは。」

- I think it is fine. Alternatively I can translate as "I don't care a bit about people's feelings" "And don't care about my feelings? You all Lilin."


Kaworu:
3:31 That isn’t possible.
3:33 What you see before you is your volition, and mine.
カヲル「それは出来ない。
これが僕らの意志だから。」

- 僕ら is "we" but no sure if he means we as "you and me" or "we the angels" (or "we the branch of Tabris"). Better not to double-guess here.
My translation
That isn't possible.
Because it is our will.



Shinji:
3:39 Don’t dodge the issue!
3:41 Don’t brush off my feelings!*
[*Negative makes me unsure of how to handle そうやって…]
シンジ「ごまかさないで、そうやって僕の気持ちをごまかさないでよ!!」

- ごまかす means deceive or cheat, not dodge, so the translation is not correct.
My translation
Don't deceive me. Don't deceive my feelings like that!!!


Shinji:
3:51 So, don’t close off your heart!*
[そうやって again.]
シンジ「そうやって、心を閉ざさないでよ!」

- My translation
Don't close off your heart like that!


Shinji:
I thought that, instead of all this, we could stay friends. [??]
こんな事にならずにずっと友達でいられると思ってた。

- My translation
I thought we could stay being friends all along without things becoming like these.



Shinji:
That has nothing to do with this.
Hey, Kaworu-kun, how do you feel about me?
Kaworu:
I like you, Shinji-kun.
シンジ「…関係ないよ。ねえ、カヲル君は僕の事どう思ってるの…。」
カヲル「…好きだよ、シンジ君。君の事が。」

- The strong BL implication should not be downplayed I think.
Shinji:
...This has nothing to do with this. Well, Kaworu-kun, what do you think of me?
Kaworu:
I love you, Shinji-kun.
I never thought I would come back to Evangelion after EoE,
But I discovered Re-Take (or it found me?) and
now here I am.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asuka FAN FOREVER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sailor Star Dust
Kept you waiting, huh?
Kept you waiting, huh?
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 22551
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Location: Living in Houston, TX
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:46 am

Heh, during the battle, there is more talk of them love/liking each other, so what you have for the translations (with the BL aspect) work so far, symbv.

For instance, I'm pretty sure starting around the 07:00 minute (07:03 mark) in the video, Kaworu is flat-out saying he fell in love with Shinji. :sweatdrop: What's also interesting is in either PSP/PSP versions of the game, Shinji has probably the highest default relationship values with Kaworu compared to the other children (I think the same is true for Kaworu towards Shinji), which makes it easier to have Kaworu and Shinji be closer faster during in-game free turns. Such as being able to use the "hug/hold hands/kiss/ask the character their feelings of you" options.

I'd help with the translation myself, but I don't have a transcript of the Japanese handy and your translations (Reichu, symbv) are higher quality than mine anyway.
~Take care of yourself, I need you~

Reichu
Space-Time Teratoma
Space-Time Teratoma
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 22492
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: 高地園、新槍ノ島
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:31 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:For instance, I'm pretty sure starting around the 07:00 minute (07:03 mark) in the video, Kaworu is flat-out saying he fell in love with Shinji. :sweatdrop:

For that part, I have:

シンジ「なぜ僕に声をかけたの?
なぜ僕に近づいたの?」
カヲル「興味があったんだよ。純粋な思いで君を知って、…好きになりたかった。」

Shinji:
Why did you speak to me?
Why did you approach me?
[This doesn't sound terribly natural, but...]

Kaworu:
I was intrigued.
[s]I knew that you were pure of heart …and wanted to be loved. [/s]
Knowing that you were pure of heart… I wanted to love you.

I'll, uh, post the whole thing when I reach the end. (BTW, symbv, do you want me to share our PM correspondence with the forum?)

I'd help with the translation myself, but I don't have a transcript of the Japanese handy and your translations (Reichu, symbv) are higher quality than mine anyway.

If you don't have a transcript, you make one, なんでしょねぇ~。:wink: Even if it isn't perfect... That's what your 先輩 are for!

I do have the rest of the video's dialogue typed up, but save your strength... I'm currently compiling all the possible dialogue paths into one big, horrible movie. Such an enormous, festering wound of S/K melodrama and BL tension would surely make Synapsid and LiLi very, very happy.
Last edited by Reichu on Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Avatar: Guu is uncertain...
Crying Man
(Or, How Dr. Katsuragi Found God): Read at AO3 & Discuss Here.
Status: First Draft. Chapter 10: Idle Hands released 5/24/2017.

"Fighting idiocy is like fighting a hydra. Cut off one head, two more grow back and need to tell you their uninformed opinion." - PeeJee, Something*Positive

NemZ
Token Misanthrope
Token Misanthrope
User avatar
Posts: 15804
Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Location: St. Louis
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby NemZ » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:42 pm

Actually that souls more like Kaworu saying "because you're easy"
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

Sailor Star Dust
Kept you waiting, huh?
Kept you waiting, huh?
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 22551
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Location: Living in Houston, TX
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:01 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:シンジ「なぜ僕に声をかけたの?
なぜ僕に近づいたの?」
カヲル「興味があったんだよ。純粋な思いで君を知って、…好きになりたかった。」


Let me take a whack at these lines. Thanks for the reply btw. (Being a Japanese-speaker, symbv will probably put us to shame if he replies to this thread, though. :lol: )

Shinji: Why did you call out to me? Why did you approach me?

Kaworu: I became interested in you. I know your pure emotions... I wanted to fall in love with you.

Such an enormous, festering wound of S/K melodrama and BL tension would surely make Synapsid and LiLi very, very happy.


:lol: Even I find myself enjoying the melodramatics. Although because it's a "good end", it's got nothing on Shinji's frantic shouting then SoTD when Kaworu kicks the bucket in the PSP Scenario 01 - Angel Attack. Kaworu's head splashes down. Shinji in Eva-01: "Kaworu-kun, Kaworu-kun, Kaworu-kun! Is this our fate? UWAAAAAAAAAAA!"
_____

Kaworu at 2:48 wrote: I am merely following the flow of what you call destiny.


Although there's no basis for this (except in Eva2 game), I was under the impression that both Rei and Kaworu have some sort of "pull" to Lilith and/or Adam. I mean, even in one of the bad ends when the Angels reach Lilith, Rei just pops up out of nowhere (whether or not she's battling or somewhere else) and rejoins Lilith.

The Angels seem to have that "pull" to a lesser extent with wanting to join Lilith or Adam depending on each one's goal, so no reason to think that Rei and Kaworu wouldn't fall into this category too when it came to their own bodies. But I wonder if this would fall in line with Lilith wanting the Fruit of Life/S2 Engine in Rei's Scenario so any "pull" on Kaworu's end is intentional; Lilith WANTS Kaworu or an Angel to reach her...? (Lilith: Mine at last! AHAHAHA! Kaworu: D: )

Not that I subscribe to the idea of the SoLs or Angels or Evas being "evil fuckers", but it's some food for thought at least. Hmm.
~Take care of yourself, I need you~

Azathoth
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Posts: 3495
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
Location: somewhere under noctis labyrinthus

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Azathoth » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:44 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Actually that souls more like Kaworu saying "because you're easy"


yyyyyeah...Shinji is about as pure of heart as Kaworu himself
Nothing is so valuable that it need not be started afresh, nothing is so rich that it need not be enriched constantly.

symbv
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Age: 49
Posts: 6513
Joined: Jul 27, 2010
Location: used to be TOKYO
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby symbv » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:54 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:(BTW, symbv, do you want me to share our PM correspondence with the forum?)


I believe so, there are quite a few people in the forum who have knowledge of Japanese and are interested in translation of Eva material, so I guess this would be great if the discussions about Eva translation are shared in the forum.
I never thought I would come back to Evangelion after EoE,
But I discovered Re-Take (or it found me?) and
now here I am.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asuka FAN FOREVER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reichu
Space-Time Teratoma
Space-Time Teratoma
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 22492
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: 高地園、新槍ノ島
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:57 pm

I've updated this with the remainder of my very preliminary Kaworu Battle translation (open the spoilers and scroll down past the Shinji emoticon), so feel free to offer comments and criticisms. I'm gonna need 'em! (I'll be editing the rest to incorporate symbv's suggestions forthwith.)

Also updated the translation for the Angel Ending utilizing symbv's suggestions, incorporating it directly into the original Angel Ending post this time. A couple of comments/questions @ symbv:

- For 「呼んでいる…。ああ、僕は許されたんだ…。帰るべき場所が、僕にはあったんだ…。」 you suggested, "It is calling for me... Ahh, I have been given permission.... I have found the place to which I should return..." I probably used the passive, "I am being called", since it leaves it vague who is doing the calling. In your translation, what would "it" be?

A smaller thing, I stuck with "to which I must return". "Must" seems to be a valid rendering of べき, and I guess it sounds a little better to me.

- I haven't incorporated the fix for the line 全ての生命は、ここへ過ぎてはやって来る… yet. You suggested, "All lives pass through here and come into being...". How is the "(verb)ては" construction being used here (I'm not too familiar with it)? I also find やって来る confusing, I guess because やる isn't the kind of verb I'd expect to see a 来る after (at least, not in a vague context like this) and my brain just doesn't know what to do. :sweatdrop:

As you wished, here's the stuff we discussed over PM. (The Seele video isn't quite pertinent to this thread, but whatever... I'm not sure where else I'd post that translation anyway.)

SPOILER: Show
Reichu wrote:The first scene is a meeting between the committee and Gendo. It's not very interesting, but I figured that, since I bothered with it, I might as well get it right. You can view it here.

Keel Lorenz:
As we had feared, the appearance of the Angels has finally become reality.

Committeeman A:
One could say that they’ve thrown the world into the chaos we expected.

Committeeman B:
Hmph. It’s no different than fifteen years ago, is it not?

Committeeman C:
With regard to the events we could not anticipate — excepting the panic at the time — it was because we humans lacked the means. [???]

Committeeman D:
The Gestalt will collapse. It’s a matter of course.

Keel Lorenz:
Nor shall we allow hands to lie idle. [???]

Committeeman A:
Indeed. Now even the Evas' existence has become common knowledge.
The organization Nerv had been kept secret up to this point, but now we have no choice but to disclose its activity to the public… to an extent.

Gendo:
The nature of the Angels, the reason for their attacks.
There are many things that must be announced.

Committeeman B:
Hahhahhah. Their true nature is yet another thing we know little about, no?

Gendo:
Naturally, the truth is being reticent.
But all conceivable dummy scenarios and simulations are already being prepared by Nerv.

Committeeman C:
Their reappearance is inconceivable.

Committeeman A:
How ironic, then, that we invested so much toward the time that they would.

Committeeman D:
Indeed. There was no way they could simply NOT show up.

Committeeman B:
Nerv and the Evas have not been for naught.

Keel Lorenz:
We don’t know that. If they aren't useful, then they’re a waste all the same.
In any event: Second Impact. That tragedy cannot be allowed to recur.

Committeeman A:
Agreed. But what should be done about the time, manpower, and money required for those ends?

Committeeman D:
It's quite the headache.

Keel Lorenz:
Now then, your efforts have been appreciated.
It’s committee business from this point forward.
You've been given incredible authority with Nerv.
We will be expecting further progress.

Gendo:
Understood.

Original Japanese:

[spoiler]キール・ロレンズ「かねてより危惧されていた使徒出現が、ついに真実のこととなった。」
委員会A「まぁ、予想通り、世界は大混乱というやつだな。」
委員会B「フン。15年前と同じか。」
委員会C「予測しえない出来事に対しては、昔からパニック以外の手段を持たないのが我々人間ですからね。」
委員会D「ゲシュタルト崩壊かね。当然の事だよ。」
キール・ロレンズ「かといって、何もしないわけにはいかん。」
委員会A「そうですな。今やエヴァの存在までも周知の事実となってしまった。
「今日まで隠蔽していたネルフの組織活動もある程度は、公開せざるを得ない。」
ゲンドウ「使徒の正体、襲来の理由。発表しなければならない事は山ほどあります。」
委員会B「ハハハ。相手の正体もわからずにかね?」
ゲンドウ「もちろん真相は控えます。
「が、ネルフでは、考え得る限りのダミーのシナリオ、及びシミュレーションが既に用意してあります。」
委員会C「まさか、再び現れるとはな。」
委員会A「だが、皮肉な事に我々は、この時のために巨額の先行投資をしている。」
委員会D「左様。現れませんでした、ではすまされませんぞ。」
委員会B「ネルフとエヴァ、無駄にはなりませんでしたな。」
キール・ロレンズ「そいつはわからんよ。役に立たなければ、同じ事だ。
「いずれにせよ、セカンドインパクト。
「あの悲劇を繰り返すわけにはいかん。」
委員会A「賛成だな。だがそのための時間と人と金をどうするか。」
委員会D「頭の痛い問題だな。」
キール・ロレンズ「では、ご苦労だったな。あとは委員会の仕事だ。
「君たちネルフには絶大な権限が委譲されている。
「今後の進展に期待してるぞ。」
ゲンドウ「わかっています。」


There's some more stuff over here. Still working on the Shinji/Kaworu stuff, though the translation is a bit of a mess so far and can probably use all the help it can get.


symbv wrote:Committeeman C:
With regard to the events we could not anticipate — excepting the panic at the time — it was because we humans lacked the means. [???]
委員会C「予測しえない出来事に対しては、昔からパニック以外の手段を持たないのが我々人間ですからね。」

- Because facing events that could not be predicted and having no measure besides panicking has been we humans since the past.


Keel Lorenz:
Nor shall we allow hands to lie idle. [???]
キール・ロレンズ「かといって、何もしないわけにはいかん。」

- Even so, we cannot just do nothing.


Committeeman D:
Indeed. There was no way they could simply NOT show up.
委員会D「左様。現れませんでした、ではすまされませんぞ。」

I wonder how best to translate it -- he wanted to say that he would not let it rest if they did not show up. Perhaps your translation got the tone right if not the exact translation of the words spoken.

There's some more stuff over here. Still working on the Shinji/Kaworu stuff, though the translation is a bit of a mess so far and can probably use all the help it can get.

I was reading that too. If I found anything I want to add, I will post it on the forum.


Gonna be lazy with the formatting on this next one...

Reichu wrote:Thanks for replying! I'm going to respond to the thread stuffs via PM since I'm not sure other forum users will find it too interesting.

Quote:
- I see 167のダメージ was not translated. Perhaps it was left out because it is some game term?

Ah -- the reason for that is because Aoba says one thing (ネルフ本部、攻撃受けています!), and the on-screen text says another (「ネルフ本部、___のダメージ!」). Could theoretically combine the two, I suppose.

Quote:
帰るべき場所が、僕にはあったんだ…。
I have found the place to which I should return...

Oh, I see... I was mixing up いる and ある. (I do dumb things like this when I'm confused about what someone's saying.) ある can take on the sense of something being "found", as opposed to simply existing?

Quote:
"Eva-02 is not inserted with entry plug. It is moving unmanned!"

I think I just rearranged it because I was having trouble making it flow in the original order. :sweatdrop: Can always be fixed later.

Quote:
So the old men want to move the plan up one step, using our hands.

I guess I shouldn't have second-guessed myself there -- that's actually the first translation I went with, but I was confused because it was just 一つ... I expected to see a counter or something.

Quote:
仕組まれた is like being set up (for certain purpose) so is a bit different from preordained fate
Also 着て is different from 来て. Unless it was a typo

Indeed, it was a typo.

With regard to 仕組まれた, I have trouble thinking of a translation that doesn't sound stilted in English. There's "set up", "fixed", "staged"... but none of those sound right if applied to this situation. I was hoping that "preordained fate" at least captured the spirit of 仕組まれた -- if the children have been 'set up', then, in a sense, their destinies have been determined for them.

Quote:
迷っている is more like "confused".

Heh. That's what I put at first, but then I thought, "Oh, maybe he's saying that Shinji strayed from the flow of destiny, or something!" Yeah, I guess not. Nyao~

Quote:
カヲル「僕の気持ちはどうでもいいのかい?
君たちリリンは。」

Here, how does 君たちリリンは refer back to the previous sentence? (I get confused when there are two はs to deal with...)

By the way, exactly what does そうやって mean? I can't get a good sense just by looking at it, and the contextual examples I found didn't help me here, either.

Quote:
ごまかす means deceive or cheat, not dodge, so the translation is not correct.

I got the meaning of "dodge (the issue)" from Tangorin, though I will fully admit that I haven't encountered this verb enough to know which sense of the word is most appropriate here.

Quote:
The strong BL implication should not be downplayed I think.

Oh, dear. I was afraid of that... :3

I don't do character dialogue often enough, so this is good practice. More from me soon -- I'm going to get through this! >D


symbv wrote:
Reichu wrote:symbv:

Thanks for replying! I'm going to respond to the thread stuffs via PM since I'm not sure other forum users will find it too interesting.


Actually I think it should be alright to discuss in the forum. I think there are more than you and me who have some knowledge of Japanese and they may be interested in discussion about the translation.....

Reichu wrote:
帰るべき場所が、僕にはあったんだ…。
I have found the place to which I should return...

Oh, I see... I was mixing up いる and ある. (I do dumb things like this when I'm confused about what someone's saying.) ある can take on the sense of something being "found", as opposed to simply existing?


This one is a tricky one and it cannot be directly translated. It is not just the difference between いる and ある, and ある does not usually mean "found". The literal translation is "The place I should return to, is now inside me..." . The past tense あった indicates a state of completion but it would be tricky to translate as "has been inside me". So I took the meaning and put it in another way -- hence the translation.

Reichu wrote:
"Eva-02 is not inserted with entry plug. It is moving unmanned!"

I think I just rearranged it because I was having trouble making it flow in the original order. :sweatdrop: Can always be fixed later.


You don't need to change anything. I just think that if anybody is trying to practice his/her Japanese my translation may be helpful (you see, I do believe discussion in the open serves some purpose in EGF -- it is much more meaningful than the many pointless discussions there!)

Reichu wrote:
So the old men want to move the plan up one step, using our hands.

I guess I shouldn't have second-guessed myself there -- that's actually the first translation I went with, but I was confused because it was just 一つ... I expected to see a counter or something.


The original text is not straightforward and I can see how it can become confusing (as you said, there was just 一つ there)

Reichu wrote:
仕組まれた is like being set up (for certain purpose) so is a bit different from preordained fate
Also 着て is different from 来て. Unless it was a typo

Indeed, it was a typo.

Ha!! That got me quite puzzled for a long while~~~~

Reichu wrote:With regard to 仕組まれた, I have trouble thinking of a translation that doesn't sound stilted in English. There's "set up", "fixed", "staged"... but none of those sound right if applied to this situation. I was hoping that "preordained fate" at least captured the spirit of 仕組まれた -- if the children have been 'set up', then, in a sense, their destinies have been determined for them.


My understanding is that they were put in their positions and roles so that the plan plays out as it did. I also do not have a perfect translation - but I wonder if there are some words that can convey the sense of their initial role and subsequent experience being pre-arranged, not just their ultimate fate.

Reichu wrote:
カヲル「僕の気持ちはどうでもいいのかい?
君たちリリンは。」

Here, how does 君たちリリンは refer back to the previous sentence? (I get confused when there are two はs to deal with...)


Yes, Kaworu seems to like to say a sentence in a flipped way, like Yoda you know :lol:

Reichu wrote:By the way, exactly what does そうやって mean? I can't get a good sense just by looking at it, and the contextual examples I found didn't help me here, either.


"Like that"


ごまかす means deceive or cheat, not dodge, so the translation is not correct.

I got the meaning of "dodge (the issue)" from Tangorin, though I will fully admit that I haven't encountered this verb enough to know which sense of the word is most appropriate here. :tongue:


Hmm... there is no reason to use the 2nd meaning instead of the 1st...

I have never seen Tangorin. Is it good?[/quote][/spoiler]

I'll use the thread to reply to your most recent PM in a little bit.
Last edited by Reichu on Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Avatar: Guu is uncertain...
Crying Man
(Or, How Dr. Katsuragi Found God): Read at AO3 & Discuss Here.
Status: First Draft. Chapter 10: Idle Hands released 5/24/2017.

"Fighting idiocy is like fighting a hydra. Cut off one head, two more grow back and need to tell you their uninformed opinion." - PeeJee, Something*Positive

symbv
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Age: 49
Posts: 6513
Joined: Jul 27, 2010
Location: used to be TOKYO
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby symbv » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:28 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:- For 「呼んでいる…。ああ、僕は許されたんだ…。帰るべき場所が、僕にはあったんだ…。」 you suggested, "It is calling for me... Ahh, I have been given permission.... I have found the place to which I should return..." I probably used the passive, "I am being called", since it leaves it vague who is doing the calling. In your translation, what would "it" be?


"It" would be whatever calling for and granting permission for his return.

View Original PostReichu wrote:A smaller thing, I stuck with "to which I must return". "Must" seems to be a valid rendering of べき, and I guess it sounds a little better to me.


べき is more usually a "should" thing. But I won't argue if you want to use "must" here.

View Original PostReichu wrote:- I haven't incorporated the fix for the line 全ての生命は、ここへ過ぎてはやって来る… yet. You suggested, "All lives pass through here and come into being...". How is the "(verb)ては" construction being used here (I'm not too familiar with it)? I also find やって来る confusing, I guess because やる isn't the kind of verb I'd expect to see a 来る after (at least, not in a vague context like this) and my brain just doesn't know what to do. :sweatdrop:


No, やって来る cannot be split. It is one whole phrase and is very common in ordinary Japanese speech. It means "come [here]".

View Original PostReichu wrote:I've updated this with the remainder of my very preliminary Kaworu Battle translation (scroll down past the Shinji emoticon), so feel free to offer comments and criticisms. I'm gonna need 'em! (I'll be editing the rest to incorporate your suggestions forthwith.)


Will take a look...


Thanks for including our PM, and do you mind replying to my question below?
I have never seen Tangorin. Is it good?
I never thought I would come back to Evangelion after EoE,
But I discovered Re-Take (or it found me?) and
now here I am.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asuka FAN FOREVER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reichu
Space-Time Teratoma
Space-Time Teratoma
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 22492
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: 高地園、新槍ノ島
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:09 am

View Original Postsymbv wrote:べき is more usually a "should" thing.

Fair enough.

No, やって来る cannot be split. It is one whole phrase and is very common in ordinary Japanese speech. It means "come [here]".

How does the nuance differ from 来る on its own, out of curiosity? Also, in that sentence, how is the "(verb)+ては" construction being used? I'm not too familiar with it.

With regard to Tangorin, I don't know how useful you'd find it :wink: , but for a novice like me it's been an invaluable source. When I'm attempting to translate, I usually have Tangorin open in one tab and Eijiro open in another.
Avatar: Guu is uncertain...
Crying Man
(Or, How Dr. Katsuragi Found God): Read at AO3 & Discuss Here.
Status: First Draft. Chapter 10: Idle Hands released 5/24/2017.

"Fighting idiocy is like fighting a hydra. Cut off one head, two more grow back and need to tell you their uninformed opinion." - PeeJee, Something*Positive

Someone
Sandalphon
Sandalphon
User avatar
Age: 22
Posts: 512
Joined: Apr 29, 2011
Location: Survivor Colony Somewhere
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Someone » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:46 am

Thanks Reichu!
DISCLAIMER: The above statement might or might not be serious.

symbv
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Age: 49
Posts: 6513
Joined: Jul 27, 2010
Location: used to be TOKYO
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby symbv » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:12 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:How does the nuance differ from 来る on its own, out of curiosity? Also, in that sentence, how is the "(verb)+ては" construction being used? I'm not too familiar with it.


やって来る has the nuance of coming along, arriving here (for some event or purpose). For example in the news when it was reported the pandas are coming to Japan, they say パンダがやって来る not パンダが来る. Or when the Beatles came to Japan, the Japanese is ビートルズがやって来た not ビートルズが来た. It is an established usage and always in this て form. It is something very useful to learn because Japanese use it so often.

With regard to Tangorin, I don't know how useful you'd find it :wink: , but for a novice like me it's been an invaluable source. When I'm attempting to translate, I usually have Tangorin open in one tab and Eijiro open in another.


I also use online resource like weblio from time to time. I just wonder how this one (Tangorin) is compared to other online dictionaries...
I never thought I would come back to Evangelion after EoE,
But I discovered Re-Take (or it found me?) and
now here I am.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asuka FAN FOREVER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reichu
Space-Time Teratoma
Space-Time Teratoma
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 22492
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: 高地園、新槍ノ島
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:02 pm

symbv: Well, I'm an idiot... やって来る was in my dictionary the whole time and I apparently forgot. The ては had been the part of the sentence that was actually confusing me from the start. I finally bothered to really look it up, and apparently it indicates repetition of an action. So

全ての生命は、ここへ過ぎてはやって来る…
...would literally be "All life keeps passing through here and arriving", or something? I don't get it -- passing through a place and arriving at it, at the same time?

I also use online resource like weblio from time to time. I just wonder how this one (Tangorin) is compared to other online dictionaries...

You're in a better position to determine Tangorin's quality than I am. I'll check out biblio, too.

If you can take a look at the rest of the Kaworu stuff when you have opportunity, I'd be most appreciative! Here's another question I have about the Angel ending, as well.

レイ「ここは、S2機関の中、巡り巡る力の生まれるところ。
かつて、あなただったものが他のものと交差するところ。
Rei: We are within the S² Engine, where the power that spins forever is born. Where what had once been you intersects with others.

I'm not sure about the rendition of 巡り巡る力の生まれるところ. "Intersects" also doesn't sound like the best way of translating that part.
Avatar: Guu is uncertain...
Crying Man
(Or, How Dr. Katsuragi Found God): Read at AO3 & Discuss Here.
Status: First Draft. Chapter 10: Idle Hands released 5/24/2017.

"Fighting idiocy is like fighting a hydra. Cut off one head, two more grow back and need to tell you their uninformed opinion." - PeeJee, Something*Positive

JoeD80
Gaghiel
Gaghiel
Posts: 395
Joined: Jan 08, 2010
Location: Los Angeles

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby JoeD80 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:12 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:全ての生命は、ここへ過ぎてはやって来る…
...would literally be "All life keeps passing through here and arriving", or something? I don't get it -- passing through a place and arriving at it, at the same time?

Basically, all life passes (away) and starts here. 過ぎる is the sense of going beyond something or surpassing it, so in the context of all life this would refer to passing beyond/away.
Last edited by JoeD80 on Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

symbv
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Age: 49
Posts: 6513
Joined: Jul 27, 2010
Location: used to be TOKYO
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby symbv » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:13 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:全ての生命は、ここへ過ぎてはやって来る…
...would literally be "All life keeps passing through here and arriving", or something? I don't get it -- passing through a place and arriving at it, at the same time?


So you were talking about that ては (in 過ぎては)...
Well my interpretation is just "and then" so it is like
"All lives pass through here and then come [back] here"

View Original PostReichu wrote:You're in a better position to determine Tangorin's quality than I am. I'll check out biblio, too.


Well, I guess if you have used it for a long time you may be able to tell how often it contains the word you want to check and if the meanings or examples look sufficient and clear...

View Original PostReichu wrote:If you can take a look at the rest of the Kaworu stuff when you have opportunity, I'd be most appreciative!


I will...

View Original PostReichu wrote:Here's another question I have about the Angel ending, as well.

レイ「ここは、S2機関の中、巡り巡る力の生まれるところ。
かつて、あなただったものが他のものと交差するところ。
Rei: We are within the S² Engine, where the power that spins forever is born. Where what had once been you intersects with others.

I'm not sure about the rendition of 巡り巡る力の生まれるところ. "Intersects" also doesn't sound like the best way of translating that part.


My translation would be
"The place where the force that goes round and round is born."
I never thought I would come back to Evangelion after EoE,
But I discovered Re-Take (or it found me?) and
now here I am.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asuka FAN FOREVER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Return to “Evangelion Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Sachi and 1 guest