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Trigger's Elysium
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Postby Trigger's Elysium » Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:59 am

MaggotMaster wrote:Sephiroth was a walking bag of cliches.

Pretty boy? check.
Oversized weapon? check.
Pseudo-tragic background? check.
Spends most of the game "acting cool"? check.


Also, notice how he doesn't say anything right when you're going to fight him, that makes him a really effective and complex antagonist doesn't it? oh wait it doesn't.

And yes, Kefka was a great villain, and so was Kuja (despite being a trap), FF9 did much better than FF7 when it came down to having a "complex" main antagonist.

By the way, Advent Children is completely horrible, at least FF7 was half-decent until the end of the first disc, AC on the other hand was just a bunch of pretty graphics thrown together to make a poor, ridiculous story.

By the way, Kefka had a great theme song, and that's not even counting Dancing Mad, but Nobuo Uematsu gets WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much credit.


I agree with pretty much everything you said there. But at least Sephiroth wasn't as bad as Ultimecia. I hope Sephiroth goes to hell and have Ultros ass rape him for all eternity. Speaking of Ultros, FFVI and FFX are my favorite FF games.
He was warrior and mystic, ogre and saint, the fox and the innocent, chivalrous, ruthless, less than a god, more than a man. There is no measuring Muad'Dib's motives by ordinary standards. In the moment of his triumph, he saw the death prepared for him, yet he accepted the treachery. Can you say he did this out of a sense of justice? Whose justice, then? Remember, we speak now of the Muad'Dib who ordered battle drums made from his enemies' skins, the Muad'Dib who denied the conventions of his ducal past with a wave of the hand, saying merely: "I am the Kwisatz Haderach. That is reason enough."

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Postby AuthenticM » Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:56 pm

Trigger's Elysium wrote:
MaggotMaster wrote:Sephiroth was a walking bag of cliches.

Pretty boy? check.
Oversized weapon? check.
Pseudo-tragic background? check.
Spends most of the game "acting cool"? check.


Also, notice how he doesn't say anything right when you're going to fight him, that makes him a really effective and complex antagonist doesn't it? oh wait it doesn't.

And yes, Kefka was a great villain, and so was Kuja (despite being a trap), FF9 did much better than FF7 when it came down to having a "complex" main antagonist.

By the way, Advent Children is completely horrible, at least FF7 was half-decent until the end of the first disc, AC on the other hand was just a bunch of pretty graphics thrown together to make a poor, ridiculous story.

By the way, Kefka had a great theme song, and that's not even counting Dancing Mad, but Nobuo Uematsu gets WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much credit.


I agree with pretty much everything you said there. But at least Sephiroth wasn't as bad as Ultimecia. I hope Sephiroth goes to hell and have Ultros ass rape him for all eternity. Speaking of Ultros, FFVI and FFX are my favorite FF games.

Ultimecia was not bad. She was a great villain. Even though she wasn't given a backstory, one could infer that the people of her time hunted down sorceresses in order to prevent what happened in the past. She could have lost her familly this way, then assumed the title of 'Ultemicia' and killed off everyone who had made her life a misery. If you ask me, the most awful villain of Final Fantasy (and of many RPGs to date) is Yu Yevon. This guy is fucking pathetic. He does not even say a goddamn word in the entire game. He was just thrown into the game because Square was short on ideas. Oh, him and Zeromus. Yeah that's right, the man on the moon.
Last edited by AuthenticM on Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Trigger's Elysium » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:27 pm

Shut up, Yu Yevon is awesome. I mean, I always dreamed of the day my final boss would be a spider.

...<_< They should have at least made him as badass as Ultros. Jeez, a spider that's also a pushover?
He was warrior and mystic, ogre and saint, the fox and the innocent, chivalrous, ruthless, less than a god, more than a man. There is no measuring Muad'Dib's motives by ordinary standards. In the moment of his triumph, he saw the death prepared for him, yet he accepted the treachery. Can you say he did this out of a sense of justice? Whose justice, then? Remember, we speak now of the Muad'Dib who ordered battle drums made from his enemies' skins, the Muad'Dib who denied the conventions of his ducal past with a wave of the hand, saying merely: "I am the Kwisatz Haderach. That is reason enough."

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Postby The Bastard King » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:15 pm

Wait, Yu Yevon? The Yu Yevon in FFX? The Yu Yevon that I destroyed without him attacking me a single time when I was at what could be considered an average level for that part of the game?

That Yu Yevon? :(
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Postby ThroneofDravaris » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:21 pm

Yu Yevon was an antagonist, not a villain. Nothing he did was with malicious intent and it was even stated by Bahamut at one point that he was neither good nor evil. Seymour was the villain in FFX and that guy was pure class.

As for Ultimecia, inferences based on one line in the game != a backstory. There is no way of telling anything about the character for sure, and for that (plus the fact that she is first mentioned about halfway through Disk 3) she's a shitty villain.
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Postby AuthenticM » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:40 pm

ThroneofDravaris wrote:Yu Yevon was an antagonist, not a villain. Nothing he did was with malicious intent and it was even stated by Bahamut at one point that he was neither good nor evil. Seymour was the villain in FFX and that guy was pure class.

Seymour is not cool. Seriously, he's not. Gilgamesh was way better as a recurrent boss.
In my case, I refuse to go easy on the ignorant, regardless of degree. Hitler was ignorant. Joshua C. Whatshisface is ignorant. To me, they're in the same category of ignorant and stupid people who should have been left in some isolated corner of the world where they couldn't bother anyone. --The Eva Monkey

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Postby ThroneofDravaris » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:05 pm

Seymour was evil, had an interesting character design, well thought out nihilistic goals and a tragic backstory that wasn't 'in your face' all the time. For a penultimate-enemy, they put a hell of a lot of effort into him.

Gilgamesh was just a gag character. Sure, that worked for the game he was in, but not enough that he deserves to be in half the mainline FF titles. Cool character design though.
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Postby Mundane » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:28 pm

ThroneofDravaris wrote:
AuthenticM wrote:Sephiroth is downright one of the best villain in video game history

I never understood why people thought he was so awesome. Both Kefka and Kuja are much better villains. That’s not even to mention non-FF villains like Albedo from Xenosaga.

Also, I think FFVII is a great game.


O, Albedo would rape Sephiroth.

Right through the pants.
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Postby Kaysow » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:41 am

Ultimacea; By far the most unmotivated villain ever.

Waitaminnit some fucked-up shit is going down, what's up with that?
Oh, witches in the future. Let's rock.

It has soul and setting, but FFVIII IS a broken game. I hear it's because it and Xenogears were being produced simultaneously, so both ended up being a bit halfassed.

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Postby Trigger's Elysium » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:50 pm

They should have put more effort into Xenogears. Because Xenogears was incredible and FFVIII is trash.
He was warrior and mystic, ogre and saint, the fox and the innocent, chivalrous, ruthless, less than a god, more than a man. There is no measuring Muad'Dib's motives by ordinary standards. In the moment of his triumph, he saw the death prepared for him, yet he accepted the treachery. Can you say he did this out of a sense of justice? Whose justice, then? Remember, we speak now of the Muad'Dib who ordered battle drums made from his enemies' skins, the Muad'Dib who denied the conventions of his ducal past with a wave of the hand, saying merely: "I am the Kwisatz Haderach. That is reason enough."

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Postby MaggotMaster » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:58 pm

AuthenticM wrote:Ultimecia was not bad. She was a great villain.


Image you're just justifying sheer laziness and a complete lack of characterization and background, while you might "assume" what her background is, it doesn't change the fact the writers were too lazy to give her one.
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Postby Synkhro » Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:33 pm

MaggotMaster wrote:FF7 is a shit game.

Definetely agree with that. I don't have much sympath for the FF series, mostly after having to play the 3 cd's from FFVIII twice and at both times having my memory card burning after getting in the space. :cry: And I guess i'm the ocidental-rpgs kinda guy, I don't get much pleasure from playing those Japanese games, especially square's one, except for a few.

I don't really know why this series get so much attention, there are much much many more games with a better development. Although the background story of the games is kinda cool, the gameplay is just boring, like Trigger's Elysium said, games like Xenosaga and even some like Kingdom Hearts (:!:) have would have a better outcome if more explored.

But I have to admit, FF XII (or XIII, no idea...The one which came out recently!) seems awesomely orgasmic, except for the male main character that everyones says is da worst, after squall. But that Ashe, in my opinion is one of the best characters created in the FF universe, among with the rest of the game itself. Just wish I had the freaking console to play it. :cry:

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Postby Kaysow » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:54 am

XII was pretty nice, but with a story so unentertaining I've been putting off the finishing move for weeks now. Thought I'd take some time to sidequest before that and just lost interest. I just don't care how it ends.

You can't really diss a whole series like that, at least not in most cases. FF had some highpoints, as did Suikoden and every other. But with different people involved, and years inbetween releases, each game really stands on it's own.

Not even DMC is all horseshit. As much as I hate Dante, DMC3 was kinda sorta good.

What you just touched there Synkhro, I'll go even further and say; Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2 were better games than FF10 and FF12.

No opinion available on XI, cuz I don't play MMOs.
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Postby The Bastard King » Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:20 pm

Kingdom Hearts takes the best of the Final Fantasy formula, mixes it a bit with a Zelda/Mario 64 engine, and does something no other RPG (besides Mario RPG, of course) manages to do: give it a massive sense of nostalgia that anyone can feel. Don't tell me that fighting Captain Hook with Peter Pan, Donald Duck, and the steryotypical RPG-styled hair didn't give you goosebumps.

And yes, I purposely left Goofy's name out of that. Frick'n retard...
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Postby Hunter21 » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:02 pm

I couldn't stand KH. All it was to me was a glorified Hack n' Slash video game. Not even that challenging of a RPG really. As for FF7, I liked the game but I don't think it is the greatest RPG ever. Personally I liked Dragon Quest 8 and Chrono Trigger/Cross much better.
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Postby Ornette » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:28 pm

The Bastard King wrote:Kingdom Hearts takes the best of the Final Fantasy formula, mixes it a bit with a Zelda/Mario 64 engine, and does something no other RPG (besides Mario RPG, of course) manages to do: give it a massive sense of nostalgia that anyone can feel. Don't tell me that fighting Captain Hook with Peter Pan, Donald Duck, and the steryotypical RPG-styled hair didn't give you goosebumps.

And yes, I purposely left Goofy's name out of that. Frick'n retard...

I thought KH was one of the most entertaining games in Square Enix's history. When I first popped the game in, I think I played for 2 days straight (yes, 48 hours or so), I just couldn't stop. I can see how most FF fans aren't into it, it's not really the same type of game. I personally never got into any of the FF series, everytime I tried to play it, I'd either fall asleep or be comepletely lost because I'd skip all the cut scenes and dialog. I honestly didn't give enough of a shit about the characters to be bothered with reading the tons of dialog. Simply not my type of game.

I don't even think FF is much of an RPG. Sure it keeps stats on you and your team, you can choose to do whatever you want, but the RPG elements are just a minor add on to a story driven game that you mostly click "Next" on to get to the next part of the story. When I think of RPG, I think of angband or omega, or even Everquest and any ofther MMORPGs.

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Postby AuthenticM » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:07 am

If you guys want to play a JRPG for the gameplay, you ought to try Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga. Not only is the gameplay awesome, but the story is pure genius and very beautiful (and controversed).
In my case, I refuse to go easy on the ignorant, regardless of degree. Hitler was ignorant. Joshua C. Whatshisface is ignorant. To me, they're in the same category of ignorant and stupid people who should have been left in some isolated corner of the world where they couldn't bother anyone. --The Eva Monkey

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Postby Trigger's Elysium » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:41 pm

AuthenticM wrote:If you guys want to play a JRPG for the gameplay, you ought to try Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga. Not only is the gameplay awesome, but the story is pure genius and very beautiful (and controversed).


QFFT. DDS is a great series. Nocturne is awesome too.
He was warrior and mystic, ogre and saint, the fox and the innocent, chivalrous, ruthless, less than a god, more than a man. There is no measuring Muad'Dib's motives by ordinary standards. In the moment of his triumph, he saw the death prepared for him, yet he accepted the treachery. Can you say he did this out of a sense of justice? Whose justice, then? Remember, we speak now of the Muad'Dib who ordered battle drums made from his enemies' skins, the Muad'Dib who denied the conventions of his ducal past with a wave of the hand, saying merely: "I am the Kwisatz Haderach. That is reason enough."

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Postby the_seventh_child » Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:28 am

FFVII was a great game, but in my opinion not the greatest of the FF series.
That's has got to be VIII, VI or IX in my opinion.
I gotta admit though that the "One Winged Angel" that played during the final boss battle was the best music boss composed ever.
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Postby Space Penis » Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:46 am

AuthenticM wrote:Ultimecia was not bad. She was a great villain. Even though she wasn't given a backstory, one could infer that the people of her time hunted down sorceresses in order to prevent what happened in the past. She could have lost her familly this way, then assumed the title of 'Ultemicia' and killed off everyone who had made her life a misery.

Well uh if you listen to some crazy people then Ultimecia has one of the most fleshed out backgrounds out of all the FF villians.

Ultimecia was Rinoa, dammit! IT MAKES SENSE.
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