NGE2: First Ancestral Race and Seeds of Life

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SawItAtAge10
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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:33 pm

View Original PostZenoseiya wrote: I mean, the Nostalgia Critic presented the idea that the Angels were trying to "help" humanity by initiating 3rd Impact to end all loneliness, whereas my impression is that the Angels are suffering from solipsistic madness and only want to end their own personal loneliness.


Do you have a link to this?
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Re: NGE2: First Ancestral Race and Seeds of Life

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Postby Reichu » Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:46 pm

View Original PostSawItAtAge10 wrote:I suppose the we can infer a thing or two about the "4 Adams" seen in 2nd Impact flashback in 2.22...That would mean there's two other "Lilith-type" seeds floating around out there somewhere in the Rebuild-verse...

The information in NGE2 pertains only to NGE. It is useless in a continuity where there are four "Adams" and only a single "Angel" slot before Lilith's. Dunno where you're getting the two extra Liliths from, either.
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Re: NGE2: First Ancestral Race and Seeds of Life

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:05 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:The information in NGE2 pertains only to NGE. It is useless in a continuity where there are four "Adams" and only a single "Angel" slot before Lilith's. Dunno where you're getting the two extra Liliths from, either.


I see your point about the separate continuity thing...I was just thinking with 7 seeds that can only be one of two types, "3 Lilith's" would fit the symbolic language/motifs of NGE (three Reis, three "mother goddesses" as a pagan/femminized inverted Trinity, etc.) Conversely, it's kind of neat to think of the hypothetical "4 Adam types" as being symbolic of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse, from a human perspective in that each of them would be the harbingers of our demise. Is there any info one way or another to confirm how many of each seed type there are or if any of them are ambidextrous?
FROM EVANGELION:
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"I'm saying that I love you."

NOT FROM EVANGELION:
"You are excrement. You can change yourself into gold."

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Re: NGE2: First Ancestral Race and Seeds of Life

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Postby Reichu » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:40 pm

View Original PostSawItAtAge10 wrote:Is there any info one way or another to confirm how many of each seed type there are

The Seed that Kaworu is talking to in NGE2 hasn't arrived at a planet yet and says that it doesn't yet know what form its descendants will take. This implies that the Seeds start out without any specialization, and make a conscious choice between the Fruit of Life and Fruit of Knowledge routes later on.

if any of them are ambidextrous?

This question feels like a non sequitur. What does a Seed's "handedness" have to do with anything?
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Re: NGE2: First Ancestral Race and Seeds of Life

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:55 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:This question feels like a non sequitur. What does a Seed's "handedness" have to do with anything?


I just meant that if their life bearing properties (FoL or FoK) are nondeterministic from when they came into being/were released into the cosmos, is it theoretically possible that they could simply choose to alter their natures between being an Adam or Lilith type OR that they could exemplify properties of both types in some capacity?

For example, they could create a race of fixed-form beings (like the Lilin) that have Adamic powers such as being giants, the ability to defy gravity, create explosions, etc., but are still mortal/limited and thus necessitate a need to create things.
FROM EVANGELION:
"Acts of Man are greater than acts of God!"

"I'm saying that I love you."

NOT FROM EVANGELION:
"You are excrement. You can change yourself into gold."

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Re: NGE2: First Ancestral Race and Seeds of Life

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Postby Reichu » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:57 pm

"Ambidextrous" just means able to use both hands equally well. (There are less literal uses listed at Dictionary, but I don't think you were going for those; you're probably looking for another word altogether.)

This whole Fruit business isn't very well defined in any form of Eva, so for the purposes of your fanfiction you'll just have to make up rules that work for you. That said:

My impression is that the Angels' psychokinetic powers are largely a product of having S2 organs. Realistically, being able to manipulate physical space on the particulate level would require vast amounts of energy, and that energy has to come from somewhere. However, this does raise annoying questions about how Rei would be able to generate the strongest ATF barrier ever detected up to that point (episode #24), as she has no S2. Eva-01 being able to kick Zeruel's ass when she has no discernible source of power is another problem. Both these cases seem to indicate that there is a way to access huge amounts of energy sans S2; however, given the lack of frequency with which such phenomena occur, this alternative method probably lacks reliability. The S2 organ could, thus, be a way to guarantee continuous access to physics-defying power, and anyone lacking one would only be able to perform such feats on a more limited basis.

One thing you could play around with is the "wavelength" classification system. Red, orange, green, blue, and so forth. As far as I can tell, the colors are an analogy for how much energy a particular configuration of (LCL-based) matter possesses. Red (lowest wavelength) corresponds to the most basic form, as seen in EoE (creation is reversed and red LCL is subsequently everywhere). Blue (highest wavelength mentioned in canon; violet would be one grade higher) is attributed to Adam's Children, and also to Lilith after absorbing Adam. Eva-00 is noted as being green, so maybe the S2 Engine is the thing that pushes an organism into blue territory. Orange is attributed to entities with an uncertain or transitional form, and is perhaps, not coincidentally, the "default" color of LCL. Yellow is never mentioned -- while sepia, which isn't actually a spectral color, is.

TL;DR: Physical forms of different wavelengths give you another canonical variable to play with aside from just the Fruits.
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Re: NGE2: First Ancestral Race and Seeds of Life

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:20 pm

Sorry, wrong choice of word there...As for Unit 01, I always assumed it was a kind of "under extreme duress" type of thing. And with Rei in ep. 24, I thought it was the completeness of her (Lilith's) soul within Rei III coupled with proximity to Lilith's body...

As far as the wavelength goes, could you give me a like where I can find more info/read up on it? This is actually an interesting angle I hadn't considered before...Thanks! (And I promise reviews from me of chapters from Crying Man ARE forthcoming soon!) ^_^
FROM EVANGELION:
"Acts of Man are greater than acts of God!"

"I'm saying that I love you."

NOT FROM EVANGELION:
"You are excrement. You can change yourself into gold."

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Re: NGE2: First Ancestral Race and Seeds of Life

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Postby Reichu » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:16 am

View Original PostSawItAtAge10 wrote:As for Unit 01, I always assumed it was a kind of "under extreme duress" type of thing. And with Rei in ep. 24, I thought it was the completeness of her (Lilith's) soul within Rei III coupled with proximity to Lilith's body...

These are just partial explanations for (A) what causes Eva-01 to reactivate without external power and (B) why Rei is suddenly levitating and projecting an ATF. The actual problem of where the energy for these activities comes from is not being addressed. In NGE, this is normally addressed in some way -- umbilical cable, S2 engine, or boring ol' digestion and metabolism -- so the instances where it isn't creates a sort of vacuum for want of filling.

As far as the wavelength goes, could you give me a like where I can find more info/read up on it?

If you search for "wavelength" and my name, you should find at least some stuff, like the "PWM revisited" thread and some scattered odds and ends. I wish there was something more definitive at the moment, but, alas, I have too much to do and so all these analyses must wait their turn...
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Re: NGE2: First Ancestral Race and Seeds of Life

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Postby sephirotic » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:52 pm

I still like my old interpretation that the source of the powers of the Angels is not due to the S2 engine/fruit of life, but the ability to expand their At Fields. The paranormal powers in eva, including telekinesis is originated from the soul itself, and there is no distinction between the limits of the power of the soul of a mere human, Rei or an Angel. This is kinda of supported by several hints in the series, such as the fact that the AT field's of the Eva's in is the soul of the pilots expanded, not of the Evas themselves,
I believe the thing responsible for the ability to expand one's at field comes first and foremost from the CORE, not the S2 organ. The s2 organ only gives infinite energy, the Soul can take energy from regular body functions or electricity as we can see from Unit 01, I then believe that Rei actually has a piece of Lilith's core inside her, and that cores gives her the ability to expand her field very strongly, since it is a piece of the original Lilith's core.

The core thus is not only a receptacle for the soul, but work as an "resonator/amplifier" of the soul. I know the Rebuild is another continuity but the importance of the Core is further straightened there.

That is a lot of fanwank compressed in a single confusing paragraph, but I actually have spent a lot of time working in the mechanics of all this using the canon of the series in the past, I think is a much more elegant theory than the "PWM" one, so if anyone is interested to expand this I can go on...
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Re: NGE2: First Ancestral Race and Seeds of Life

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Postby Uriel93 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:23 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Just where the hell IS this Seed that it still hasn't found a habitable planet after 4 +x billion years? [x= approximate travel time of Lilith] It has to be pretty damn far away, right? And it can just engage in insta-telepathy with Kaworu? How exactly are Kaworu and Adam's offspring supposed to -- as bare naked souls, mind -- reach this Moon that some unfathomable number of light years away? What will be propelling them or protecting them? Just... blargh.


Mind, I haven't been into these things for as many years as you and some others have been, but -

I always thought that, in LCL form, every living thing is connected - wouldn't that also possibly imply that ALL LCL is in touch, no matter where it is? If the seed hasn't been planted yet, so to speak, wouldn't it be LCL as well?


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