NGE2: First Ancestral Race and Seeds of Life

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Postby Zenoseiya » Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:47 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:This, on the other hand, may be relevant to the continuity in which progenitor aliens are a known component:
I fail to see how that is different from "creates a third form of life that wipes out all previous life."

View Original PostReichu wrote:I'm not sure I can agree with you about the FAR being "Lilin"... I'd think they'd look like pint-sized Adams if anything.
The Seeds and the Angels are artificial entities, if the Dead Sea Scrolls are anything to go by. If FAR are considered "human," it isn't too much of a stretch to assume they may have more in common with Rei and Kaworu. Of course, it is equally likely they were just normal humans, no external ATF or anything. Perhaps even more likely, since Kaworu and Rei are artificial beings created using technical information from the Dead Sea Scrolls. It's implied that Gehirn/Nerv has a poor understanding of the technical information, and it's more like an alien black box than a proper manual.

This reminds me of the Tacitus from Command & Conquer. Did you ever notice how much it has in common with NGE? The Tacitus is the Scrin Bible, Tiberium is hostile to human life and terraforms planets but also has limitless military and evolutionary potential, etc.

Hey, what if the FAR were like the Scrin? Huh? Huh?
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Postby Reichu » Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:04 am

View Original PostZenoseiya wrote:I fail to see how that is different from "creates a third form of life that wipes out all previous life."

That it supports an idea you formed by using Rebuild is beside the point. I'm trying to show how you should be conducting yourself. ;p

With regard to the FAR, I was referring to physical appearance. I really doubt they look like Rei or Kaworu (= abnormally pale Lilin), since certain features of the Seeds (extrapolating from the Evas as well) become inexplicable without a "creating God [Seed] in Man's [FAR's] image" framework.
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Postby AuraTwilight » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:36 pm

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:The extent of her determination to gain control of the Fruit of Life suggests otherwise.


Funny how Lilith never makes any attempt whatsoever to try to get Adam's Fruit of Life for the billions of years she's had to go up and get it. It makes it seem it's entirely a circumstantial thing that recently developed.
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Postby Zenoseiya » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:17 pm

View Original PostAuraTwilight wrote:Funny how Lilith never makes any attempt whatsoever to try to get Adam's Fruit of Life for the billions of years she's had to go up and get it. It makes it seem it's entirely a circumstantial thing that recently developed.
Maybe because she couldn't move?
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Postby AuraTwilight » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:55 pm

Adam could; why wouldn't she be able to? Especially BEFORE she got Lanced and de-souled?

Even then, that shouldn't of stopped her, considering her weird quantum omnipresence bullshit.
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Postby Teague » Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:06 pm

View Original PostAuraTwilight wrote:
Even then, that shouldn't of stopped her, considering her weird quantum omnipresence bullshit.


If Lillith's quantum magic extends all through her existance, then she would know she doesn't need to do anything.

She arrives on Earth, destroys her Lancea, and leaves Adam trapped under the Antarctic. With a new status quo established she becomes aware of her own future experiences in this timeline, which culminates in her obtaining the FoL thanks to her children.

As such, she knows that if she the status quo doesn't change, she will inevitably get the FoL, no need to rush.

This hypothesis somewhat assumes that the quantum magic of GNR is seperate from that of Lillith, as from Lillith's perspective, having her will supplanted by her progeny only to end up decapitated by the will of another of her progeny is very definitely a bad end.

So I assume Lillith's quantum magic ends the moment she reunites with Rei, and she just assumes that whatever intent she had regarding the FoL is carried out by the new entity that takes her place.
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Postby AuraTwilight » Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:44 pm

Or that temporal omnipresence either wasn't something she knew she could do, or that it doesn't mean temporal omniscience either.

But of course, I'm not even convinced Lilith was actually asking Rei to do anything at all.
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Postby Nightquest » Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:28 pm

This is the first time I read this, and I have a doubt.

Hyuga:
The caged Evas have... disappeared!


Kaworu took "his children" but ... why did he take Eva-01 if she is part of Lilith? And the resident soul, is human... not an angel.

I know it's not stated which Evas were caged but I assumed that they mean all of the Evas.
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Postby AuraTwilight » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:56 pm

One common theory is that Unit 01 is an Adam clone grown through Lilith's body, like when we grow human organs on mice.

It's also possible Kaworu just took Unit 01 along so that Lilin stopped fucking with forces they didn't understand.
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Postby Zenoseiya » Thu May 05, 2011 10:46 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:That it supports an idea you formed by using Rebuild is beside the point. I'm trying to show how you should be conducting yourself. ;p
Okay then. I'll use the more correct "reset all life" statement from the CI. If an Angel unites with Lilith, everything dies. I don't know if an ordinary Angel would be capable of initiating a genesis event, however, meaning this may only be a prelude to Adam's later creation of an angel "ecosystem." Angels seem to be uniquely able to resist Anti-ATFs, which may be the reason why Nerv had them killed off.

View Original PostAuraTwilight wrote:Adam could; why wouldn't she be able to? Especially BEFORE she got Lanced and de-souled?
When they were building Unit-01, Lilith is shown on a slab, unmoving. The only time she moved was to regenerate her legs or to grow an orifice on her belly.

View Original PostAuraTwilight wrote:Or that temporal omnipresence either wasn't something she knew she could do, or that it doesn't mean temporal omniscience either.
You are pretty much the biggest fanwanker ever. Every "explanation" I've seen written by you has been completely nonsense with no support in the series itself (or reality, for that matter). Any "science" in the series is just typical nonsensical Star Trek-style technobabble.
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Postby AuraTwilight » Fri May 06, 2011 1:13 pm

You are pretty much the biggest fanwanker ever.


You clearly haven't been here long. Besides, Devil's Advocate isn't the same as fanwanking.

Every "explanation" I've seen written by you has been completely nonsense with no support in the series itself (or reality, for that matter). Any "science" in the series is just typical nonsensical Star Trek-style technobabble.


Except, well, there IS. Lilith is so heavily tied into quantum in the backround imagery that it's hilarious.

When they were building Unit-01, Lilith is shown on a slab, unmoving. The only time she moved was to regenerate her legs or to grow an orifice on her belly.


So she didn't move at that time. That doesn't mean she couldn't. Lilith seems like a pretty chill individual judging from Rei.
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Postby Monk Ed » Fri May 06, 2011 6:20 pm

View Original PostAuraTwilight wrote:Adam could; why wouldn't she be able to? Especially BEFORE she got Lanced and de-souled?

I favor the Fruit of Life interpretation -- lacking it, she eventually ran out of motive energy and became a vegetable, even if her PWM body could not exactly "die". I like to think that the humans then messed with her to get her body active again, so as to produce LCL (or be a gateway to its home dimension, at least), grow Unit 01, etc.

You say that she must have been pretty chill looking at Rei, but Rei 1's personality begs to differ -- if anything, I'm inclined to think that being trapped for billions of years in a vegetable body possibly drove Lilith insane (or at least bitter), and that carried over into her Rei 1 aspect which was then stored "safely" away in Unit 00 so that what remained in Rei 2 could be useful to Gendo (by being so chill).

Edit: Yes, Fruit of Life, not Seed of Life.
Last edited by Monk Ed on Sat May 07, 2011 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Reichu » Fri May 06, 2011 7:00 pm

"Fruit of Life", not "Seed of Life", surely.

Lilith surely would have known what she was getting herself into by choosing the FoK. Perhaps Lilith's Spear of Longinus might have helped her out with the whole energy thing, had it still been around.
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Postby Monk Ed » Sat May 07, 2011 5:17 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Lilith surely would have known what she was getting herself into by choosing the FoK. Perhaps Lilith's Spear of Longinus might have helped her out with the whole energy thing, had it still been around.


I never thought of that...

Perhaps Seeds who choose the Fruit of Knowledge, opting for it over infinite longevity, are expected to use their packed-in Spear the way Kaworu did to release themselves from the prison of their motionless bodies once the energy runs out.
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Postby Reichu » Sat May 07, 2011 8:42 am

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:use their packed-in Spear the way Kaworu did

:???:
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Postby NemZ » Sat May 07, 2011 12:23 pm

I think he means Lilith would have reformatted herself into a lillim body all on her own and lived among her children without the need for Yui's experiment.
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Postby AuraTwilight » Sat May 07, 2011 1:49 pm

I still like the idea that Lilith uses quantum void energy bullshit.
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Postby Monk Ed » Sun May 08, 2011 11:15 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote::???:

The way Kaworu did in his good ending... where he takes his "children" along with that other Seed.

Whoops, Kaworu did not actually do that. Lawl. Hypothetical Kaworu* then.
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Postby Reichu » Sun May 08, 2011 11:37 pm

Oh. I wasn't thinking of that at all. I was thinking of something a bit more straightforward: The Spears clearly have some way of generating their own energy, so perhaps there could have been a way for Lilith to tap that energy to do... whatever. All of the details of these things are so nebulous, it's at least one idea to throw into the mix.
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Postby Zenoseiya » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:01 am

Perhaps the Black Moon has some kind of life support system or power generator? I mean, how else do you explain Lilith being able to survive for millions of years without a Super Solenoid, or Rei and Kaworu being able to externalize their ATF? That energy has to come from somewhere.

Since the Spears are helix-shaped, they might be generating their own power a la Super Solenoids.

Although I seriously question the veracity of this speculation, since when the series was being written, the writers did not use any set of rules, and just threw in whatever they thought was good at the time.

I mean, the Nostalgia Critic presented the idea that the Angels were trying to "help" humanity by initiating 3rd Impact to end all loneliness, whereas my impression is that the Angels are suffering from solipsistic madness and only want to end their own personal loneliness.

The information from NGE2 radically alters one's perception of the series. So humans and angels are refugees from a Krypton-wannabe? Lilith is evil and engineered the 1st impact in order to try becoming a god?
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