I just noticed something..

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the_seventh_child
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I just noticed something..

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Postby the_seventh_child » Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:19 am

While i was watching again the EoE, at the scene where Eva-02 gets hitted by the Lance of Longinus and the "reverse battery" goes to 00:00, Asuka tries to move the Unit while she is screaming, i noticed that a lot of blood is in her eye..It's not very clear because the scene is very dark..

I'll try to get some scans as soon as i can..

Edit: Something's wrong with my program, but the scene is somewhere at 40:05..
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Postby Phaze » Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:43 am

Old. Even mentioned on the commentary.
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Postby sadsadshinji » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:56 am

The whole thing has to do with the lances actually causing the same damage to the pilot (later, her arm splits, etc)

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Postby bp32 » Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:24 pm

sadsadshinji wrote:The whole thing has to do with the lances actually causing the same damage to the pilot (later, her arm splits, etc)


I don't think her arm really split--it was a visual representation of the pain she was feeling--just look at how her arm withers away--if it was truly split then they would have animated it differently (although Unit 02's arm does the same thing--think it was just for style, since an arm split in that fashion would have looked quite different)...the eye though looks as though is actually happened, much like Shinji's throat when Toji's Eva is stangling him...
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Postby Machinehead » Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:35 pm

bp32 wrote:
sadsadshinji wrote:The whole thing has to do with the lances actually causing the same damage to the pilot (later, her arm splits, etc)


I don't think her arm really split--it was a visual representation of the pain she was feeling--just look at how her arm withers away--if it was truly split then they would have animated it differently (although Unit 02's arm does the same thing--think it was just for style, since an arm split in that fashion would have looked quite different)...the eye though looks as though is actually happened, much like Shinji's throat when Toji's Eva is stangling him...


I think it was literal. It does look rather odd, though. I think the Lance can effect both the Eva and the pilot, because in that entire fight, the only thing that effects Asuka physically is the Lance. It's too obvious to be ignored.

And I noticed the blood coming out of her eye the first time around. What a creepy image.
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Postby sadsadshinji » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:33 pm

Again, bringing up the question of the form that LCL takes (the blood looked like it was squirting out in a normal atmosphere...not swirling around in a liquid)

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Postby bp32 » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:38 pm

sadsadshinji wrote:Again, bringing up the question of the form that LCL takes (the blood looked like it was squirting out in a normal atmosphere...not swirling around in a liquid)


this has more to do with the problems of entry-plug physics--the first problem being Rei's tears in ep. 23--an as yet unresolved issue...
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Postby sadsadshinji » Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:01 pm

I suppose it is just something that cannot be explained, yet allows for more cinematic effect

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Postby bp32 » Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:03 pm

sadsadshinji wrote:I suppose it is just something that cannot be explained, yet allows for more cinematic effect


Yeah, I think that was the consensus finally reached after a long time of exhaustive debate...
"Men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, for everyone can see and few can feel. Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are."-Niccolo Machiavelli

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Postby TsubasaNoKoikokoro » Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:46 pm

Well, when in LCL, you feel what the Eva feels. And there is an idea that if a mind believes something about itself, then it is true at a certain point. IE, believe you are dead you will die.

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Postby sadsadshinji » Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:54 pm

The whole "mind can mold reality" only extends to a certain point, but yes, a person can die if they really dont care for living anymore.
I felt, at some point, that Asuka's injuries were actually imagined, but I'm not too sure as of now (the eye was definately bleeding...)
Wonder how the fake lances did that...

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Postby TsubasaNoKoikokoro » Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:03 pm

Well, the lance pierced through the head, it's possible it went down and pierced into Asuka's own eye.

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Postby sadsadshinji » Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:06 pm

Umm...Impossible, seeing as the entry plug is far below the head, the Lance is huge and would have basically pulverized her skull, and we don't see it when she is clutching her eye
None of this is meant to be offensive
Last edited by sadsadshinji on Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby TsubasaNoKoikokoro » Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:06 pm

Yeah, true. Just trying to come up with an idea.

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Postby Zuggy » Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:46 pm

does anyone know why asukas arm (and possibly the rest of her) suddenly splits in half during that scene?

crazy stuff

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Postby Machinehead » Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:47 pm

sadsadshinji wrote:Wonder how the fake lances did that...


It depends on where the Lance is originally from.

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Postby bp32 » Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:32 pm

Zugzwang wrote:does anyone know why asukas arm (and possibly the rest of her) suddenly splits in half during that scene?

crazy stuff


That is what we have been talking about (see above)--The physical manifestations of pain may have been more artistic than actual, given that it is hard to believe that one could "think" their arm apart--but I don't know for sure. Certainly the idea is that when the pilots are synced with their Eva's they will "feel" whatever injury their Eva receives (Misato telling Shinji "thats not your real arm")--which could lead to death in a very Matrixy kind of way--but as far as the physical manifestations go I am not sure--also, I don't think it is directly related to being in LCL. The most important factor is sycronization with the Eva (which the LCL may or may not facilitate--I think this is an unresolved issue, but I could be wrong)...
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Postby K2Grey » Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:41 pm

I would suggest that in general, when the Eva takes some kind of damage or injury, that the pilot _feels_ the injury, due to nerve synch and so on, but does not actually get hurt. Well, the pilot might take nerve damage, which can be severe (Misato: Cut all nerve connections quickly!!) but the wounds themselves don't appear. And there can't be actual physical damage of a major sort, because for the most part it seems like when the power and thus syncing goes off, the pain goes off as well. When Eva-01's arm gets blown off by Zeruel, Shinji clutches his arm and from that point is almost continuously screaming or grimacing until the power runs off. But when the batteries hit 0, the pain seems to vanish. If it was "real" pain, as opposed to pain from syncing with the Eva, then it would remain after the power went out.

Now, what happens with Asuka ties into my next point. I think the entry plug that you commonly see, with no LCL in it, is not the "real" entry plug interior. When they power up the Eva, the entry plug goes from being empty, to being filled with LCL, to having a psychedelic color trip occur in it, to being empty. I would say that the color trip shows that they're getting all the nerves synced with the Eva, and that the final empty plug, which looks just like the one in the beginning, is a mental construct. Otherwise how else do you explain the strange color trips, obviously something strange is going on with the pilot's mind there, and from various early episodes it's obvious that even though it looks like the LCL is not there, that it is still physically present. Why would the LCL disappear even though it's still obviously present - that is because the entry plug post-color trip is not the real physical entry plug.

Now, with Asuka, I would say that she was synched to such a point that instead of taking just nerve damage, that the Eva's wounds actually started appearing on her post-color trip body (which is also not real). The reason why only the Spears caused "physical" damage is because Eva-02 only got injured three times. The first time was the Spear through the head, the second was Eva-02 getting ripped apart, and the third time was the Spear through the arm. When Eva-02 got ripped apart, it was not under power and thus there was no synching. The first time, the power was still on, and the third time, Eva-02 was berserk and Asuka was either at a very high synch, if not 400%+ (remember, when she moved her arm the Eva's arm moved too). As for why the Lance through the head continued to cause pain, I'd say that the wound there actually caused physical damage, but it was of the nerve/hemorraging sort, which is a lot more believable than big holes appearing out of nowhere. I wouldn't abscribe the damage to be because the Spears of Longinus had mystical power.

BTW, it's worth nothing that the damage Eva-02 took and the damage Asuka took are not mirrored. Eva-02 gets a Spear through the head (missing all 4 eyes); Asuka gets an injured eye. If Eva damage was really directly mirrored in the pilot, or the Spears had uber-sympathetic damage powers, then surely the Eva's hole through the head should result in Asuka also having a hole through the head and promptly dying.

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Postby bp32 » Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:16 pm

K2Grey wrote:The first time, the power was still on, and the third time, Eva-02 was berserk and Asuka was either at a very high synch, if not 400%+ (remember, when she moved her arm the Eva's arm moved too).


But that level of snyc would have placed her "inside" the eva, like Shinji when they had to recover him--she was still visible inside the plug so it couldn't have been that high I don't think...

BTW, it's worth nothing that the damage Eva-02 took and the damage Asuka took are not mirrored. Eva-02 gets a Spear through the head (missing all 4 eyes); Asuka gets an injured eye. If Eva damage was really directly mirrored in the pilot, or the Spears had uber-sympathetic damage powers, then surely the Eva's hole through the head should result in Asuka also having a hole through the head and promptly dying.


The Spear did not penetrate all four eyes...in fact if you look closely it is hard to see even one eye that is penetrated (althought the best candidate is the lower right, which would correspond to the eye Asuka is holding I believe. The other part of the spear goes through the center of her head). So it is still a question about the physical manifestion of injuries experienced by Evas when the pilots are synced...
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"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination."-Mark Twain

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Postby Defectron » Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:50 am

I think the Lance can effect both the Eva and the pilot, because in that entire fight, the only thing that effects Asuka physically is the Lance. It's too obvious to be ignored.


Yes, but it didn't do the same amount of damage, if it did Asuka would have a hole drilled straight through her head and brain bits would be coming out the other end. So I'm not sure if her arm was as damaged as the evas was.
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