Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby lesmiserables » Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:37 am

The circular shapes on the mechanical part of the key remind me of the circular symbol used to represent the holy trinity.
Image
Still thinking if this holds any import.
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Postby ZapX » Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:01 am

NAW, I know we had a little confab about this last night, but have you checked the 2.0 special features? Does it have a closer view of the key?
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Postby SaltyJoe » Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:00 am

Some stuff about the Key, images spoilered for size:
SPOILER: Show
[URL=http://img13.imageshack.us/i/vlcsnap2010090510h26m40.png/]Image[/URL]

I made this one to emphasize the overall shape of the key itself and the writings on it that weren't in red.

If you look at bottom left corner, you can see that the catalog number has been erased, and that the "specimen name" has some pretty weird symbols in it. I'm pretty sure that it's not kanji, or at least not just that. Also, near the head of the key, there are some plain old kanji. Anyone care to translate? Is it just the name, or something more?

EDIT:
Scratch that, now that i look closer, the symbols near the head are not kanji, but something else.

SPOILER: Show
[URL=http://img163.imageshack.us/i/vlcsnap2010090510h35m53.png/]Image[/URL]

With this one, i tried to make out the writing in red above the Seele insignia. If you squint really hard, you can make out what seems to be some sort of identification code: 2094W02, at least that's my guess. Another obscure reference, perhaps?

Aslo, sorry if this was already brought up somewhere else, but the Key might somehow allude to Nebuchadnezzar's dream. Or not.
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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:52 am

View Original PostSaltyJoe wrote:Scratch that, now that i look closer, the symbols near the head are not kanji, but something else.


It's the same thing as the Specimen Label which is cuneiform for Nebuchadnezzar but flipped 180°
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Postby kabezonalex16 » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:12 am

The symbols aren´t kanji, are archaic Akkadian.
The first symbol means Nebo, the Babylonian god identified with Mercury, son of Marduk and Sarpanitu. Nebo is the god of wisdom and erudition: 'the god who possesses intelligence, who hears from afar, he who teaches, lord of the hallmarks of the tablets'. All symbols, except the Latin characters are Akkadians.
Here the rest of symbols: (600) http://www.alain.be/akkadien.html
The full name of the specimen is Nebuchadnezzar (expected, right?), and it should be noted that Nebuchadnezzar is an Akkadian name which means "¡Oh Nebo, protect the Heir!"
The symbols that shows up in the head is the same name, but are turned

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Postby Seph » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:34 am

You gotta admit that Anno hasn't lost the attention to detail we first saw in NGE O.o

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Postby NAveryW » Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:29 pm

On July 4, 2010 I wrote:I don't remember seeing that cut in Rebuild and I'm not going to watch through the whole thing again just to confirm it. However, I just realized that there will certainly be a better view of the text in Evangelion: Complete 2.0. Probably even the illegibly tiny text below it.
Yep:

Image
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Postby Shinies » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:00 pm

I would like to ask before anything if there is no problem posting pics of official books from the rebuild set of movies.

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Postby NAveryW » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:06 pm

View Original PostShinies wrote:I would like to ask before anything if there is no problem posting pics of official books from the rebuild set of movies.
Nobody here's scanned any in, but if you're asking if you may, that's not a problem.
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Postby Shinies » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:08 pm

Nope I'm not asking for scans, I was asking if there is problem if I post some of the images I recently found, maybe they will help a little bit with the theorizing of this key.

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Postby NAveryW » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:09 pm

That's not a problem.
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Postby Shinies » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:14 pm

Well first is of course the key itself, mind you this is more of a sketch thing for the final one but maybe someone could find anything interesting that made it in the final drawing:

Image

And as an extra the symbols found where the key is:

Image

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Postby gwern » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:44 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Probably says "Nebuchadnezzar".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nebukadnessar_II.jpg


I agree. It's hard to compare the two, but look at the bottom glyph on the Key's field: it's a big asterisk (*), which is present twice in the wiki link.

View Original PostSaltyJoe wrote:With this one, i tried to make out the writing in red above the Seele insignia. If you squint really hard, you can make out what seems to be some sort of identification code: 2094W02, at least that's my guess. Another obscure reference, perhaps?


The '9' actually looks to me like an '8', because it bulges at the bottom. Unfortunately, google didn't turn up anything for '2084W02' either.

----

I'm surprised no one seems very interested in the 'Lost Number' bit, and that the censoring of the sample number reveals that whatever its number was, it was low.

Both to me point to this little-man-in-bakelite being good old Adam. With Adam in bakelite and Lilith up on the moon, we only have 2 FAR/seeds from the flashback to explain away.

The Lost Number I take to mean that he's been excluded from the 'contract' (hence the 'lost' bit) even though he meets the condition to be included in the Number of Angels.

The sample number blackout is there to disguise that the sample number actually reads '000-0000-0001'.

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Postby Azathoth » Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:59 pm

View Original Postgwern wrote:Both to me point to this little-man-in-bakelite being good old Adam. With Adam in bakelite and Lilith up on the moon, we only have 2 FAR/seeds from the flashback to explain away.


Lilith is not on the moon. Lilith is in the basement until such time as Anno inevitably pulls the reverse twist and LOL IT WAS ADAM all along or something dumb like that. Mark 06 is not Lilith just because it has a Seele mask stapled to its head.

View Original Postgwern wrote:The Lost Number I take to mean that he's been excluded from the 'contract' (hence the 'lost' bit) even though he meets the condition to be included in the Number of Angels.


A solid idea, and as good an explanation as any. Might also have to do with the fact that the Key was "lost" to Seele? But then, if the name comes from the Dead Sea Scrolls - ah, you know what, never mind. There's not going to be much more we can reliably speculate about this without more information on the contract.
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Postby loyal servant » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:32 pm

Does anyone agree that this needle seems to hold a heavy resemblance to the entry plug?
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Postby Azathoth » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:21 am

View Original Postloyal servant wrote:Does anyone agree that this needle seems to hold a heavy resemblance to the entry plug?


Definitely, yeah. Note that where Entry Plugs have the Eva's unit number stenciled on the side (Dummy Plugs add the name of the pilot-pattern) this thing has "Nebuchadnezzar" in cuneiform.

Still, given how far it's sundered from the general religious buzzwords that Eva likes to throw around, which tend to be kabbalist and mystical Christian mumbo-jumbo (and for Rebuild, add to that the serpent and forbidden fruit on Seele's logo; I'm going to be quite disappointed in Anno if he doesn't symbolically equate Unit 01 with the serpent at some point), I remain fairly skeptical that the "Nebuchadnezzar" thing has any meaning at all.
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Postby loyal servant » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:22 am

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:Definitely, yeah. Note that where Entry Plugs have the Eva's unit number stenciled on the side (Dummy Plugs add the name of the pilot-pattern) this thing has "Nebuchadnezzar" in cuneiform.

Still, given how far it's sundered from the general religious buzzwords that Eva likes to throw around, which tend to be kabbalist and mystical Christian mumbo-jumbo (and for Rebuild, add to that the serpent and forbidden fruit on Seele's logo; I'm going to be quite disappointed in Anno if he doesn't symbolically equate Unit 01 with the serpent at some point), I remain fairly skeptical that the "Nebuchadnezzar" thing has any meaning at all.


I can't see its role differing much from that of Adam in the original series. New name. New look. Same purpose. For now at least...
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Postby NAveryW » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:21 pm

Two days ago I emailed the Omniglot about the unidentified text, figuring he'd be able to tell what it is if anyone could. I sent him this image along with an explanation:

Image

His response:
Simon Ager wrote:Hi Nicholas,

The writing looks like a made up alphabet and sort of resembles the Atlantean script: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/atlantean.htm

Regards,

Simon
Not any historical/mythical Atlantaean, but the Atlantaean made up for Disney's Atlantis: The Lost Empire, better known to anime aficionados as Disney's ripoff of Anno's own Nadia. I thought at first it was an amusing coincidence, until I remembered that Nadia had its own Atlantean language.

I also remembered that Eva's original concepts for Adam and the First Rootcestral Race were much closer to the Atlantean race from Nadia (one source I found on my trip through the Wayback Machine and subsequently lost because I didn't think it'd come up outright called them the same), so... using Nadia's made up language for the new Eva would actually make a lot of sense.

I couldn't find much of Nadia's Atlantean alphabet while browsing around, but what I did find is definitely similar. Can someone help with this matter?
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Postby Xard » Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:36 pm

There should be atlantean writing in at least two places

a) In one of the early eps where Nadia and Jean for the first time see Nautilus's name plate and Nadia is mysteriously able to read it (ep 4 would propably be the safest bet, after that ep 9 if it wasn't in ep 4)

b) ep 35 in atlantean ruins

I'm not sure if we get good look at the writing in ep 35 though. I'm also pretty sure there are other instances but can't really remember any. Ep 16?
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Postby Ornette » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:01 pm

Unfortunately, the writing in Nadia looks like Egyptian hieroglyphs.


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