Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:24 am

^
Was he supposed to fuse entirely with Rei even though only his hand had Adam in it? :scanners_head:
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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:36 am

^
With Rei's body no, but with Lilith's body alongside Rei yes.
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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:41 am

^
They were going to float up to Lilith together while connected to each other and all four of them were going to combine into one being?... That's so stupid! Oh my God, I have a feeling I'm going to like Rebuild's fusion much better even though I think it sounds incredibly stupid too.
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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:53 am

^
No, the three of them floating to Lilith isn't retarded, the true horror we nearly avoided was the possibility of a Giant Naked Gendo! :scared:
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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:11 am

^
:rofl: Oh the memories of TOILI

Why do you think it would take on the attributes of Gendo though? I mean I could see Shinji flipping his shit if Lilith instead of morphing into Kaworu morphed into Gendo but you think Gendo would be the dominant shape?
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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:02 am

^
Well that was just a possibility, one that I really don't want to risk! :lol:
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
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Postby unitM » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:37 am

I mean guys. Who fucking knows what Gendou has used the Key with. Several times throughout the NTE series, we see Rei opening a new pack of pills. Who's to say that Gendou hasn't used the Key in developing such pills? Let's look at the the mid to the end of 2, for example:

  • We're shown Rei receives new pills. This is after Kaji smuggles the Key out of the base.
  • Shortly after Rei receives these pills, Rei starts to act more dangerous, more risky, more human. She exclaims Shinji's miso soup is delicious(and blushes). She talks to Gendou about whether people like to cook and eat with others. She cuts her hands playing with a knife. She blocks Asuka's aggression.
  • Rei rises from the Geofront in a battered 00, armed without a rifle and only with an N2 missile(which she detonates with the help of 02)
  • Shinji saves Rei, thus triggering the beginnings of Third Impact.

Who's to say Gendou didn't drop a little bit of the Key into Rei's pills to force the awakening of Unit 01(described by Kaji during N3I)? He certainly had his opportunities.

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Postby Sachi » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:04 pm

I was browsing about teh interwebs, and came across this painting of William Blake, titled Nebuchadnezzar.

Image

Aside from the title, does this image remind you of anything else from Rebuild?

How about Lilith's corpse?

Upon seeing this, I went browsing about the forums and the most relevant post I could find was this one predating the premiere of Q, which has some interesting nuggets sourced from Blake's material that can be tied into Instrumentality. I could not, however, find any further discussion on the resemblance between the painting and Lilith's corpse in Q, aside from this post which only mentions the resemblance.

I don't mean to say that this gives us any sort of explanation for what the hell the Key actually is. However, I think it's clear that Anno is playing around with Blake's work. This painting in particular depicts Nebuchadnezzar's madness, which can translate to Shinji's own descent into madness depicted throughout Q. The painting also deals with the concept of shedding one's humanity, which could translate to many things, such as the Evas, Beast Mode, Instrumentality, or Gendo's mission to sell his own soul (keep in mind that he's the one in possession of the Key, and he is referred to as a "king" much like Nebuchadnezzar). Nebby's story is depicted within the Book of Daniel, which deals with the events preceding the apocalypse, and can be clearly translated to the apocalyptic nature of the entire series.

I am curious about what this means for Lilith, since she's the one portrayed in the pose of animalistic madness. Is there an implied fall from grace here? Lilith could be said to have been corrupted by the Mark.06 and the 12th Angel, pulled down from her position as a Christ-like figure of mankind. Was it her hubris that lead to her madness? Idk, I'm just spitballing now. Discuss!
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Re: Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:39 pm

Can Lilith even be said to have a hubris? There’s nothing in Eva that suggests that she has human-like emotions. (Unless we wanna bring Rei into all of this, but she wasn’t all that proud either.)

I think it’s all reflecting Gendo’s hubris somehow. He holds the Key of Nebuchadnezzar, so any thematic parallel between Nebuchadnezzar and Eva would be wielded by Gendo. Also, like you said, Gendo is titled “King of the Lilin.” (Lilith is not the one given royalty status over the lilin, interestingly enough.) He’s simply deflecting his consequences of his hubris (possibly inflicted by the 12th Angel) onto Lilith.

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Postby Ray » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:52 pm

Everyone who went to sunday school remembers the story of God humbling Nebuchanezzar by turning him into a beast for several years.

I'd like an answer for the key of Nebuchanezzar THING in Final. But we're probably not gonna get it. Given how packed to the gills Final is probably going to be.
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Re: Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:56 pm

“Nebuchadnezzar” is a pain to type in an iPhone. I’m gonna call him “Nebby-cun” from here on out.

Also, does Nebby’s key mirror an aspect of William Blake’s art? I need to google search this...
Last edited by FreakyFilmFan4ever on Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Ray » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:58 pm

I prefer. Mr. Nezzar, because I grew up on Veggietales.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:01 pm

^ AWWW YEAH! But now I’m thinking of Nebby’s Key looking like a giant chocolate bunny.

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Re: Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

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Postby Sachi » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:02 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Also, does Nebby’s key mirror an aspect of William Blake’s art. I need to google search this...

One of the posts I linked to says this:
View Original PostKodaemon wrote:Also, a brief look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Blake's_mythology gives us this:

Image

Which is another possible source for the design of the key, and would also link it to Adam.

The problem with this being inspiration for the design of Nebby's key is that the key has only three rings, while the painting is emphasizing the four divisions of Albion. That is, unless you count the body attached to the key as the fourth ring.
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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:07 pm

If that image does have some kind of tie to the key, does this mean we have potential (at least as fanon) names for the four Adams?
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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:51 pm

Since I am a big proponent of sequel Theory, what I was thinking was more along the lines of Shinji being the Mad King's key. Because Shinji is the one who allows access to unit 1 and Lilith listens to him, and they are the ones who can invoke the impacts aided by Shinji.

I think whatever was in the syringe (because that is exactly what I think it is) was used on Shinji to control him. And that Gendo used Shinji to get Ayanami original body out of Lilith. That's why Lilith has scarring on her chest from where Ayanami entered into.

Shinji didn't remove Ayanami from Zeurel, he removed her from Lilith under the Mad King's control.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:48 am

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:I think whatever was in the syringe (because that is exactly what I think it is) was used on Shinji to control him.

That's weird, since Shinji has been controlled since movie 1, and Gendo didn't get the syringe until movie 2. Also, we never see the syringe used on Shinji, despite the fact that the movie spends almost it's entire time focusing on the important events of Shinji's life in that movie.

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Postby Joseki » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:07 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:“Nebuchadnezzar” is a pain to type in an iPhone. I’m gonna call him “Nebby-cun” from here on out.

Also, does Nebby’s key mirror an aspect of William Blake’s art? I need to google search this...


Nebby is a Pokémon and a Shinji inspired meme.

SPOILER: Show
Image


Now I'm expecting Gendo to turn into that during 3.0+1.0.
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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:39 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:That's weird, since Shinji has been controlled since movie 1, and Gendo didn't get the syringe until movie 2. Also, we never see the syringe used on Shinji, despite the fact that the movie spends almost it's entire time focusing on the important events of Shinji's life in that movie.


Well a lot of things happen off screen in Evangelion, that's why they create all that supplemental material.

But no it works in a non-linear fashion, first we see the scar, then we see the key, then we see the action of the removal, and then we see the after effects.
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Re: Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:04 pm

Can you site the source of the supplemental material?


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