Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

Moderators: New Moderators, Board Staff

Monk Ed
Sunshine Administrator
Sunshine Administrator
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 8485
Joined: Jul 12, 2008
Location: Chicagoland area
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Monk Ed » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:15 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:
Chuckman's ending  SPOILER: Show
Gendo wins, but the experience of viewing the universe in five dimensions is so shattering that he willingly surrenders his power and fixes the world. Shinji almost screws it up in an attempt to resurrect Rei, but Gendo convinces him to let her go.

Shinji wakes up beside Asuka on a beach as sparkling blue waters lap at the sand. Asuka straddles him and begins choking him, but he caresses her cheek and she stops.


This has got to be the first ending someone has proposed that I actually like.

Sadly, if we can guess it, it probably won't happen.
System Administrator, Thread Surgeon General, Default Complaint Receptacle
"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 8260
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:25 pm

The biggest roadblock to an ending like that is that it would rip the focus away from Shinji at the last minute and I don't really see Anno doing that.

I could however see

SPOILER: Show
Shinji being the one to hold absolute power. Gendo's plan all along to was to shove it into Shinji's hands, knowing he'd try to bring back "his" Rei serve his own purposes as well. Rei convinces Shinji to give her up for the world's sake, yadda yadda.

What confuses me if how Rei and Shinji's relationship can be central to the plotline and be resolved with a clone of Rei hanging around. This is where Eva always seems to trip up and go into alien space whale land.

Okay, sure, sometimes you lost people and you have to let them go. They usually don't have an identical clone bopping around.

Unless someone was dating a twin and they died... I'd probably kill myself. Jesus.


I'm sure the ending will some kind of counterpoint or answer to the ending of EoE, I just can't figure what that could possibly be.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 6842
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:26 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:
SPOILER: Show
Shinji being the one to hold absolute power. Gendo's plan all along to was to shove it into Shinji's hands, knowing he'd try to bring back "his" Rei serve his own purposes as well. Rei convinces Shinji to give her up for the world's sake, yadda yadda.

What confuses me if how Rei and Shinji's relationship can be central to the plotline and be resolved with a clone of Rei hanging around. This is where Eva always seems to trip up and go into alien space whale land.

Okay, sure, sometimes you lost people and you have to let them go. They usually don't have an identical clone bopping around.

Unless someone was dating a twin and they died... I'd probably kill myself. Jesus.


I'm sure the ending will some kind of counterpoint or answer to the ending of EoE, I just can't figure what that could possibly be.

SPOILER: Show
Personally I would prefer that Shinji learns the lesson before ending in the position of absolute power with the opportunity to save Rei but with an extremely heavy price to pay. Having someone else having to tell him how to behave and prevent him to make a massive screw-up (again) would mean that in the end Shinji is still a child who didn't learned anything and still let his emotions dictate his actions, and thus should be constantly monitored.
Besides that would be a really awesome scene if for once Shinji see through Gendo's machinations thanks to all the excruciating experiences he put him through for his plans and his his newfound experience to completely screw over Gendo's plan while giving him good lecture on why he sucks so much and how he never grew-up past Yui's disappearance. Yui appearing out of nowhere to agree and bite Gendo in half optional but would be really appreciated!

As for how "Rei and Shinji's relationship can be central to the plotline and be resolved with a clone of Rei hanging around", it's very simple, and Q already showed us how : Rei Q, despite being a clone of Rei Ayanami, is not Rei Ayanami, but her own individual who needs to forge her own identity out of the shadow of "Rei Ayanami". That was the meaning behind Shinji saying that she's not "Ayanami", Asuka telling her that she don't know what would Rei Ayanami do but instead that Rei Q should think of what she want to do (leading to Rei Q's very first act of individuality by ejecting from Mark.09), her following Shinji and Asuka toward where the Lilin could pick them up instead of trying to go back to neo-NERV (signaling the beginning of her own journey of self-discovery, for her own benefit), and even the fact that her official name is "Tentative Name : Rei Ayanami".

You were jokingly talking about dating a twin, and I think that you spot on, that's how Rei Q should be considered : a twin sister of Rei Ayanami, someone with the same face, but a different personality and identity. And finding said identity will probably be one of the focus of FINAL. Maybe helping her in this quest will also help Shinji to make his mourning of Rei Ayanami and show him that he can do something good in his life and that it doesn't even require him to pilot.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Ray
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 6351
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: USA
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:20 am

Hopefully the guys at Wille won't say. . "Ah! An Ayanami Type! Shoot it!" and give Shinji an additional thing to angst over.

But back on Topic. Gendo and his key of Nebuchanezzar. In retrospect, maybe Gendo piloting an Eva is a dumb idea. I mean only children can pilot Eva's right? Maybe he's planning on using the curse of Eva to de-age himself?

Dumb idea I know.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 6842
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:16 pm

^
It was never stated anywhere that the pilot had to necessarily be a child.

As for Rei Q, the fact she's accompanying Asuka without restraints should be enough to make the rescue team not shoot her on sight.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 8260
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:57 pm

NTE never gives a valid explanation for why only kids can pilot. In NGE the pilot is paired with the mother's soul in the Eva (most of them, anyway, if you subscribe to my theory) and we never get a firm answer on what Nerv's official rationale for teenage pilots is; people have suggested radiation and the plasticity of the adolescent mind as possible cover stories but those are fanon.

In NTE there's clearly another mechanism behind the evas and souls (if there isn't, then Mari's mom's soul blew up and she can synch with Kyoko, and then who the hell is in the Unit 08?) but no explanation is given. Probably 'cause the movies are Shinji focused and too fast paced to dwell on such details.

There's nothing saying an adult can't pilot.

Ray
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 6351
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: USA
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:30 pm

There was this one review of rebuild. . . that pointed that out. . . it really ticked me off. . . The guy still has an Evageek account, so I won't say his name or leave a link here. . .but it really ticked me off. . .

But if that was the case, why wasn't Misato a pilot? Or Gendo? Or Fuyu?

Ah it doesn't matter I suppose, someone will come up with some technobabble explanation in an obscure spinoff somewhere. Lets just assume the KON alters Gendo's genetics or something to allow him to pilot and/or remove the limitations of his age.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 8260
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:46 pm

The key's purpose or what the hell it even is or where it came from is all up in the air except that it's so far filled a macguffin role originally taken by the adam embryo. There's no reason it can't do that.

Gob Hobblin
First Ancestor
First Ancestor
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 4071
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Behind the Door of Kukundu
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gob Hobblin » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:48 pm

We are wildly speculating about it's purpose and origin...and thus...the Key has served it's purpose.

All according to plan....

:gendo:
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
-Sorrow

Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 8260
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:00 pm

There were only two people in the room.

Oh God. He can see us.

Craftee
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 22
Posts: 42
Joined: Nov 06, 2013
Location: California
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Craftee » Tue May 20, 2014 10:28 pm

tl;dr
my 2 cents
SPOILER: Show
Image

Image



looks like glyphs

SPOILER: Show

Image
Image
Still waiting on Evangelion Final...

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 6842
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Wed May 21, 2014 2:37 am

Good catch, it would support the theory that the Key is one of the ADAMs that got reduced to this form for easy storage, the Rebuild version of ADAM's embryo from NGE in short.

Meaning that this ADAM really got the short end of the stick. Blown to the Moon, forcefully grafted a second pair of arms, reduced to a cluster of nerves, cut in half and impaled on a cross, being SoL is suffering! :lol:
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

ChaddyManPrime
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 2806
Joined: Mar 25, 2014
Location: Peoria, AZ
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ChaddyManPrime » Mon May 26, 2014 4:53 pm

I think the Key of Neb is the original Unit 01.

airman4
Shamshel
Shamshel
Age: 33
Posts: 277
Joined: Nov 15, 2012
Location: Dakar
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby airman4 » Tue May 27, 2014 5:12 am

So unit 01 is made of Adam ?

So who is the eva made of Lilith ? :D

ChaddyManPrime
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 2806
Joined: Mar 25, 2014
Location: Peoria, AZ
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ChaddyManPrime » Tue May 27, 2014 10:28 am

^
Maybe Unit 00 if that's how 3rd Impact happened at the end 2.0. Or they maybe it merged with Rei/Lilith in 2.0.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 6842
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Tue May 27, 2014 3:27 pm

^
Except that the Key appeared before Near Third Impact at the end of 2.0, that's the object Kaji stole from Bethany Base at the beginning of the movie and gave to Gendo.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

ChaddyManPrime
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 2806
Joined: Mar 25, 2014
Location: Peoria, AZ
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ChaddyManPrime » Tue May 27, 2014 3:29 pm

^
Broham I'm kinda confused so please forgive me, what was that in reply to? I kinda wrote a lot of things
-o-;

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 6842
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Tue May 27, 2014 3:35 pm

^
I though you talked about the Key of N, sorry.

Now for your answer, I doubt that the mere prototype was the one who benefited from being born from Lilith's flesh, after all it was the prototype for all the followings "normal" Evas.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

ChaddyManPrime
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 2806
Joined: Mar 25, 2014
Location: Peoria, AZ
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ChaddyManPrime » Tue May 27, 2014 3:38 pm

^
Oh no bro that's not what I'm thinking, it's a little more complicated than that, you should look at the Adams and speculation thread that I wrote in, you'll understand what I'm thinking. It's on the last page, the post that has spoiler tags.

kuribo-04
Arael
Arael
User avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 866
Joined: Feb 03, 2013
Location: Germany again, before that Spain
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby kuribo-04 » Tue May 27, 2014 9:01 pm

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:This has got to be the first ending someone has proposed that I actually like.

Sadly, if we can guess it, it probably won't happen.


I liked that too! Loved the parallel with EoE.
Maybe Anno stalks Evageeks and steals ideas. You can sue Chuckman.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
"In any case, it (Kill la Kill) is the greatest work of fiction ever written and should be taught in schools." -Squigsquasher
~('.'~) (~'.')~ Dancin Kirby


Return to “Rebuild of Evangelion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests