What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby Someone » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:36 pm

View Original Postrobersora wrote:lol, the fan service was the least of my problems... I mean, it's not that severe... You must have pretty conservative acquaintances.


You probably didn't think before writing.
Anyway, i just find it embarrassing somehow.
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Postby Ier » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:38 pm

I think that Kaworu shouldn't have been associated with Seele much at all. Instead I would have just had him be an angel that took human form to pose as a spy or an eva pilot or something.

My problem with the whole Kaworu/Seele plot line is that it doesn't seem to make sense from a timeline point of view. I mean isn't Kaworu supposed to be the soul of Adam? When did they extract him because I thought they were more concerned about blowing up Adam when they found him and then how could they have recovered his soul after they blew up Adam. I know somebody is going to give me a full explanation but I still feel it would have been better to make Kaworu independent rather then Seele's puppet.

Also I wish they could have come up with a better resolution of the reveal of what the angels were. I thought it would have been better if second impact was actually an attempt by Seele to complete human instrumentality and it ended up blowing up in there faces and after that they reread the Dead Sea Scrolls found Lilith.

I also wish that Jet Alone was a military project instead of a commercial one since that seems to make more sense. I also wish that the JA presenter made another appearance.

Plus I think the whole plot about the angels being human's who rejected human form was a little lame that they should have had a more impressive back story if not a better send off. Actually part of my problem with the EOE and the last part of the series is that they stopped caring about the main story and focused entirely on the characters drama. Now don't get me wrong I thought the drama was extremely good but I dislike how NGE just dropped the main story without an real payoff. Although to be fair they did seem to have ran out of time.

One last thing. They really should have had an oh-shit moment when Shinji and Asuka realized that their mothers were in the Eva units. I know the series was almost over but at the same time it felt weird that such a big plot point as the pilots mothers were absorbed by the eva's was just treated by Shinji and Asuka being happy not surprised or angry that their mother's were inside the Eva units this whole time. I just wish that their had been some sort of confrontation or realization by the main characters.

Still Evangelion is a pretty awesome series and I wouldn't change much although I will probably be back to grip about some other thing.

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Postby arkiel » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:23 pm

Asuka the Miracle Gaijin. How hard would it be for her to spend a few days shivering under a futon in her closet because she thinks the Japanese language is trying to kill her?

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Postby Fireand'chutes77 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:20 pm

Here is a plot hole I don't believe I've seen anyone bring up before:

1) The progressive knife appears to have a Technological Readiness Level of 8 to 9 when it comes to its effectiveness against Angels. Beginning with Shamshel, it has reliably pierced Angel cores under extreme combat conditions.

2) From its speed alone, a cruise missile should have more-than-or-equal-to the kinetic energy at impact of an Eva's arm. And if one missile isn't enough to get the job done, the UN Armed Forces have proven their willingness to follow up with a dozen more two seconds behind the first.

3) So.... why did nobody ever think to just integrate a progressive blade into the nosecose of an ICBM?
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Postby Final Messenger » Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:26 pm

The knife only works because the eva is there to neutralize the AT field
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Postby bobbyfischer's ghost » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:36 pm

View Original PostFireand'chutes77 wrote:

3) So.... why did nobody ever think to just integrate a progressive blade into the nosecose of an ICBM?

I think they already introduced a longsword, but not in the anime just in the Video games. Does anybody know if a sword was introduced in Anima? Sorry I don't keep up with anima.

Another explanation could be that they just didn't have the time. If only The JSSDF had developed one, so Misato could just steal it.
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Postby BC Baron » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:02 am

I always felt that a rifle/machine gun with a progressive knife mounted right onto the front end of it would have been useful. That way the pilots could both shoot and stab simultaneously.
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Postby Fireand'chutes77 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:56 am

View Original PostBC Baron wrote:I always felt that a rifle/machine gun with a progressive knife mounted right onto the front end of it would have been useful. That way the pilots could both shoot and stab simultaneously.

Or stab with the bayonet, then fire the rifle to get it back out... (Was that the drill during WWI?)
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Postby Seen » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:11 pm

The way Shinji has his "revelation" at the end of the series. You don't just go "Oh! I don't have to be a depressed little shit!" It wasn't realistic.


The others telling Shinji to look inside himself to find the answers also leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Looking inside of yourself isn't going to help when you're depressed. All that does is make you fester in your own sorrow. You won't find anything to like about yourself. You have to go outside and DO THINGS. ANYTHING to keep yourself from thinking about the usual things Shinji angnsts over. Surprisingly, you'll learn about yourself through random experiences and you'll get chances to change yourself into a better person if you try.
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Postby TehDonutKing » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:43 pm

That's exactly how I came out of depression.

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Postby Monk Ed » Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:40 pm

View Original PostTehDonutKing wrote:That's exactly how I came out of depression.

Me too.

And I've never gone back.

Minor correction to the point, though: Shinji did not come out of his depression at the end. It's just that he decided not to end himself and everything -- that there was at least hope that he could find a way out of his dire state. The dire state itself did not end, only his belief that it would never end came to an end. That's the extent of what I think he came away from it all with. I think that's what Anno's experience was as well -- as for the actual depression, Anno didn't come out of that till long after EoE, right?
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Postby CJD » Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:26 pm

View Original PostSeen wrote:The way Shinji has his "revelation" at the end of the series. You don't just go "Oh! I don't have to be a depressed little shit!" It wasn't realistic.


The others telling Shinji to look inside himself to find the answers also leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Looking inside of yourself isn't going to help when you're depressed. All that does is make you fester in your own sorrow. You won't find anything to like about yourself.


Everyone works differently.


You have to go outside and DO THINGS. ANYTHING to keep yourself from thinking about the usual things Shinji angnsts over. Surprisingly, you'll learn about yourself through random experiences and you'll get chances to change yourself into a better person if you try.


That's not solving the problem, though, it's just hiding from it. It's escapism, no different from how some people drink themselves to (proverbial) death when they're depressed, or others (myself included) play video games/watch anime/read to keep their mind off of it. If all you're doing is keeping your mind off the problem, the problem's still there.

As to learning about yourself, again, everyone's different, and how you perceive what you learn is dependent on your state of mind at the time. Someone in the pit of a depression isn't going to see good things about themselves, they'll see bad things. It's like, if they're playing baseball and they hit the ball and get to second base. Next guy comes up and gets the third out of the inning, often they won't say "Well, I hit the ball far enough to get to second base!" they'll say "I didn't get a home run".


View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:Minor correction to the point, though: Shinji did not come out of his depression at the end. It's just that he decided not to end himself and everything -- that there was at least hope that he could find a way out of his dire state. The dire state itself did not end, only his belief that it would never end came to an end. That's the extent of what I think he came away from it all with. I think that's what Anno's experience was as well -- as for the actual depression, Anno didn't come out of that till long after EoE, right?


This, but I think it goes to a slightly further extent. I think, through the dialog of instrumentality, Shinji learned to look at life through a different perspective. That alteration of viewpoint can have drastic effects on your attitude. To go on the example above, if you can realize and think "I got to second base" as opposed to "I didn't hit a home run", then you're life will be better as a whole.

Sadly, it's easier said than done (for some), because if solving depression was as easy as knowing it exists, and knowing the way you should think, I'd probably be off hanging out with IRL friends and not wasting my life away browsing forums and playing video games.

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Postby Dream » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:34 pm

About Shinji and his change in EoTV; Aside from what others already said, about the "Looking inside of yourself isn't going to help when you're depressed (...) You won't find anything to like about yourself." That depends a lot more on what kind of person you are rather than depression. I'm of the opinion that Shinji was pretty much a saint or a downright hero in the series (he wasn't without his dark moments tough, of course) For me, the only way or reason for him to call himself a coward or wicked is because he actively tried to convince himself he was one and selectively ignore all evidence to the contrary, that's the greatest change he got from the ending (seeing things through other perspectives, aside from the other meanings one could give the ending).

and on the "Surprisingly, you'll learn about yourself through random experiences and you'll get chances to change yourself into a better person if you try." To be honest, i always though that was a great part of what the series and Shinji's "trials" or actions inside and outside of being an EVA pilot was about, that's why i always loved that phrase in Re-Take "Asuka... i was really lucky to be born an EVA pilot"
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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby TheCarkolum » Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:04 pm

Episode 24. It's the core of my problems with EVA.

Also, the train sequences. They are too redundant and pretentious, and pointless as well.
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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby robersora » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:26 pm

^
It would be nice if you could tell us why you dislike E24.
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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby Reichu » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:53 pm

Trains are burned into Shinji's psyche because they're inextricably linked to the memory of being abandoned by his father. Far from "pretentious", it's smart use of a motif.
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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby C.T.1290 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:54 pm

For me, it's the way Shinji has been treated by everyone in the series, including his friends. Everything has been bad luck for him, all the things that had happened during his time, all because of this scenario that was played out by Gendo and SEELE. And in Q, things hadn't gotten any better, but quite the opposite. And it's not gonna stop there.
His life has been constant hell, and the people in it doesn't make things better or even try to help or improve it. Some are just there to make it worse. So I held the other characters responsible for it, but Gendo is to blame most of all for everything.

And also, Asuka's attitude is one of those things that tends to irritate me. Would it kill her to be more humble? Or even be nicer to someone? Even Shinji or those she considers her rival and competition? I'm pretty sure her life would've been better if only she hadn't let her damn pride get in the way all the time, because that was what led her to her downfall and what got her killed in end. Yes, SEELE were cheating bastards for having their MP EVAs equipped with the S2 engines to outmatch Unit 02, but Asuka still tends to get over confident that it would sometimes get the best of her.
It's really no wonder why a lot of people don't like Asuka, mainly because of her attitude and her need to put others down, regardless of who they are. And it's also why many people (myself included) have little faith in her and in the possibility of her becoming a better character, at this point being after EoE.
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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby StrokeMeGoat » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:42 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Trains are burned into Shinji's psyche because they're inextricably linked to the memory of being abandoned by his father. Far from "pretentious", it's smart use of a motif.

Have to agree. It also reminds me of experiences of mine in various altered states, whether it was drug use in the past or even with dreaming (lucid or otherwise) or states like hypnagogia and Sleep Paralysis. It's basically what you could describe as an archetypal purgatory-like location, with the main difference being more that it gives off the distinct impression of being so familiar that it's like returning home. It's kind of like you've always been there, and even though you've left for a short while (while going about living), it's almost like you never left. There is also an intuitive understanding when experiencing being "there" that you've been there to what essentially amounts to infinite times that's utterly convincing, kind of in the same way that you might get false memories in dreams and believe them entirely without question until you find yourself in a more lucid/aware state of consciousness.

As a matter of fact, despite being so familiar and even comfortable, it can even seem to turn sinister and very much like hell in the kind of psychological sense Evangelion usually puts off (or kind of like how the entire movie Jacob's Ladder feels). Personally I find the motif extremely relatable, and the events preceding the scenes are pretty much all consistent with my many experiences with this "place".


Also, I also got out of depression by looking inward. It took 10 or so years to really get anything out of it, but given how things went for me, I can't imagine it's possible to actually work your way out of depression without finding the answers yourself and looking inward. You might be able to manage your symptoms with medication, but given my experiences with antidepressants and whatnot, they are nothing more than a tool that allows you to more easily make your recovery (which in my opinion still requires looking within yourself and sorting yourself and the reality you inhabit out). I feel like anyone that finds themselves actually successfully over their depression simply from taking medication or relying too heavily on other's is extremely lucky and likely not the norm.

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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby TheCarkolum » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:47 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Trains are burned into Shinji's psyche because they're inextricably linked to the memory of being abandoned by his father. Far from "pretentious", it's smart use of a motif.


I'm not against that idea as much as its execution. I mean, it's overused and a lot of times is pointless, which makes it pretentious. My favorite example is episode 20, man I hate that episode. The train sequences are used so repeatedly that sometimes even cracked me up!! Like when Shinji asks: Where am I? And suddenly a cut of the godamn train jumps in to reply: Inside the Eva (OK, maybe that's not the exact dialogue). I mean, unintentionally funny! In that episode they're so desperate to fill sequences that the train gets really, really old. A motif? Well, if you bear in mind that sometimes the motif doesn't stick to its own purpose, I can't consider it a well used motif. I mean, the dropping water is a well used motif because it repeats itself with a purpose, as well as the Moon. But the train usually gets off of its rails (pun clearly intended)...
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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby Sachi » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:00 pm

How many times is overused? I'm pretty sure you can count the number of train sequences used in the original series on one hand.
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