What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby DanYeomans » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:35 pm

I'm gonna come out and say it, and a lot of people here will probably be mad, but I was really hoping for some romantic development. There is a lot of feelings shown for different characters. For example, Asuka has a crush on Shinji, Rei (in some of the few moments when she shows any emotion) shows warmth towards Shinji, and Shinji, as we know, gets pretty mad when someone messes with Rei. Now I know a lot of people will argue that a romantic aspect would detract from the rest of show and it's theme, but I think that they should have at least made some worthwhile mention to it. It was vaguely hinted at and then it was over.

However, I have high hopes for rebuild, simply because romance has been identified in Shinji, Rei, and Asuka so far. Now I'm not saying it ruins the original series for me, but it would have been a nice treat.
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Postby TehDonutKing » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:11 pm

^The manga has many Shinji/Rei moments.

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Postby Warren Peace » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:59 pm

Mentioned this in another thread, but I wish the whole "Misato is obsessed with killing Angels" thing was explored more. A moment where she goes too far could be fun. Ritsuko only accuses her of acting rashly when they have no other options. Her attitude seems to be, "well, this almost certainly won't work, so we should probably just give up and die." Ritsuko's weird that way.

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:29 pm

View Original PostWarren Peace wrote:Mentioned this in another thread, but I wish the whole "Misato is obsessed with killing Angels" thing was explored more. A moment where she goes too far could be fun. Ritsuko only accuses her of acting rashly when they have no other options. Her attitude seems to be, "well, this almost certainly won't work, so we should probably just give up and die." Ritsuko's weird that way.


I actually think it's cool that Eva subverted that trope (same with the romance trope, far as that goes). Yeah, it's hard to tell whether or not she actually has that vendetta, but I love the message it sends: "Yeah, I want them dead. I want that really, really bad. But I'm a fucking professional. I don't let that get in the way of the job because, y'know, fate of the world and all that."

This is cool in general, but on a female character, in the 1990s, it's double plus cool. It gives Misato a lot of credibility, and this despite her slovenly lifestyle. Anno gets mad props for making that call, far as I'm concerned.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Azathoth » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:32 pm

Yeah. I think Reichu once remarked on how underdeveloped the relationship between Kaworu and Misato is, given that he is almost certainly either her son or her half-brother. (Son makes more sense to me, but Reichu did not agree). I have to admit that's the one way in which I feel Kaworu doesn't get enough screen time; the hints that Misato is going to go all Captain Ahab on the Angels kind of die out around halfway through the show, and Kaworu would have been a perfect opportunity to finish that foreshadowing off if Shinji didn't monopolize him so heavily. I wonder if somewhere in ep24's long production history, a stronger development between the two of them was part of the plot? As it stands, they never even speak, of course, yet Misato remains the viewer avatar in that she is responsible for revealing virtually everything of importance about him...

Feh. 24 ought to have been a double episode and 25 the finale.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:39 pm

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:Feh. 24 ought to have been a double episode and 25 the finale.


I'm not sure about that, but I agree 24 could (and should) have been expanded to two episodes. It would mess up the two cour framework, sure, but whatever. Plenty of other shows have given us 26 episodes and wrapped things up via OVAs.

On said relationship: total fanwank, IMO. I don't see anything to indicate Kaworu has any connection whatsoever to anything (or anyone) Katsuragi.

I don't hate the idea, mind, but I can't see how there's anything to it based on what we see in the show.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
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Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Warren Peace » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:29 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:I don't see anything to indicate Kaworu has any connection whatsoever to anything (or anyone) Katsuragi.


There is a big one: he's the specific Angel Misato has a vendetta against. And she has no idea! Episode 24 ends with two of Adam's victims, side by side, completely oblivious...

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:36 pm

View Original PostWarren Peace wrote:There is a big one: he's the specific Angel Misato has a vendetta against. And she has no idea! Episode 24 ends with two of Adam's victims, side by side, completely oblivious...


If that's your evidence you have no evidence. Adam killed her father. Of course he's the focus of her vendetta. That has nothing whatsoever to do with Kaworu. It certainly doesn't mean her father was his genetic donor.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Warren Peace » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:46 pm

You'll have to highlight the part where I mentioned Misato's father. I've been over it several times and for the life of me, I just can't find it. I also don't know why you say that the possessor of Adam's soul has nothing to do with Adam. Of course that's a connection to the Katsuragis. So when you say there isn't one, that's kinda obviously not true.

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Postby Someone » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:51 pm

Remove the fanservice.
I couldn't watch it while there were other people around, X|
DISCLAIMER: The above statement might or might not be serious.

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Postby robersora » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:14 pm

Remove the fanservice.
I couldn't watch it while there were other people around, X|


lol, the fan service was the least of my problems... I mean, it's not that severe... You must have pretty conservative acquaintances.

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Postby bobbyfischer's ghost » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:20 pm

View Original PostSomeone wrote:Remove the fanservice.
I couldn't watch it while there were other people around, X|

it's Gainax, fanservice comes with the territory. if you have a laptop just watch it on that.
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Postby Bagheera » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:43 pm

View Original PostWarren Peace wrote:You'll have to highlight the part where I mentioned Misato's father. I've been over it several times and for the life of me, I just can't find it. I also don't know why you say that the possessor of Adam's soul has nothing to do with Adam. Of course that's a connection to the Katsuragis. So when you say there isn't one, that's kinda obviously not true.


Oh, Christ. Are we gonna do this again? Really? Fine, I'll spell it out for you:

You claimed "There is a big one [presumably meaning a connection between Misato and Kaworu]: he's the specific Angel Misato has a vendetta against."

We'll leave aside the fact that this isn't really true, since Misato knows nothing about Kaworu's pedigree even at the end of the series. The important part is that you made this claim in response to my reply to Az indicating I didn't buy the notion that Kaworu was "almost certainly either her son or her half-brother." That's the connection I was talking about, and that's why I said your reply was irrelevant -- it's meaningless in that context because it doesn't suggest that Kaworu has any sort of familial connection to Misato (and I did specify said context, since I prefaced my comment with "on said relationship:").

If you're not claiming a connection of that sort exists you need to read more carefully before replying to a thread. If you are claiming a connection of that sort exists you need evidence indicating such, and that ain't it. Either way your reply was off-point.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Monk Ed » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:39 pm

View Original PostSomeone wrote:Remove the fanservice.
I couldn't watch it while there were other people around, X|

Well I think the series didn't have ENOUGH fan service!

I lament that society is still not advanced enough to the point where fully pornographic content could be just as acceptable a part of a typical adult-focused story as a car chase sequence.
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Postby Bagheera » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:16 pm

View Original PostSomeone wrote:Remove the fanservice.
I couldn't watch it while there were other people around, X|


That's silly, particularly since it's typically used to emphasize other, much more relevant elements of the show. It isn't always necessary, but it's usually useful (and it's often subverted, and so not as titillating as it might be otherwise).
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Warren Peace » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:19 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Oh, Christ. Are we gonna do this again? Really? Fine, I'll spell it out for you:

You claimed "There is a big one [presumably meaning a connection between Misato and Kaworu]: he's the specific Angel Misato has a vendetta against."

We'll leave aside the fact that this isn't really true, since Misato knows nothing about Kaworu's pedigree even at the end of the series.


Jesus. Are you compulsively contrarian or something? The connection exists no matter who knows what. If a woman shoots my father right before both she and I become amnesiacs, her connection with me (as the bitch that done capped my papa) still exists! If your twin sister is given up for adoption and twenty years later you inadvertently marry her, ignorance doesn't change the fact that you're laying incest pipe. And finally, Misato being in the dark about Kaworu doesn't nullify the fact that he's related to (or plain IS) what killed her father. That tidbit forms what we call "a connection".

What the Hell are you arguing with me about? Yeesh. In the future, assume that I'm only replying to the part of your posts that I quote. In this case, a single sentence. If you'd done that here, there would be no confusion. Thanks.

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:44 pm

View Original PostWarren Peace wrote:Jesus. Are you compulsively contrarian or something?


No, I just react badly to people who wander into the middle of a conversation to make a point that's completely irrelevant. I explained this in my previous response to you. If you don't get the why of it by now that's your problem.

In the future, assume that I'm only replying to the part of your posts that I quote.


There's a term for that. It's called "taking statements out of context." It's bad. You shouldn't do it. Instead you should pay attention to the conversation before throwing in your two cents. If you'd done that here you would have realized that your comment had nothing to do with what Azathoth and I were talking about (i.e. a biological connection between Katsuragi and Kaworu. The connection you keep blathering about isn't that, get it? That's why it's not relevant).
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Warren Peace » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:02 pm

Does EGF have anything like an ignore button? That masks posts from certain users? Can't seem to find one. I mean, I can easily skip over them myself but doing away with them completely would be darn convenient. I ask this apropos of nothing, of course. Let me know, anyone...

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Postby Stryker » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:50 pm

It would be too late now to delete your post, but Warren Peace, at this time, that would be something you should PM about, instead of post. That was rather inappropriate thing to say, especially considering the situation you're in currently. Speaking of that, let it not escalate. I'm plenty sure we have other things to talk about other then irrelevant posts and what not.

Oh, and Bagheera: When you italicize how you did in your first slash, it does not help you at all. It makes you seem like you're sneering, giving and attitude, and/or speaking downwards at them. Sure, you may find that it was justified, but when it comes to conversing, you don't fight fire with fire (or in this case, negative post with negative post). It doesn't help. Rather then doing such, be more passive, and be kind in your post. And don't act out of anger. As quoted from the Denma Translation of Sun Tzu's Art of War: "Aggression only brings battle. In a place where victory is the objective, you must do minimal battle possible in ability to minimize casualties on both sides (because you want to capture them whole)."
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Postby Mr. Tines » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:17 am

Let's all draw a line under this episode here and get back to topic.
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