What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby J_Faulkner » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:50 am

The merits of Evangelion have been discussed at length among the Evangelion fandom over the years, and typically revolve around its perceived emotional depth, complex characters, great action sequences, links to philosophical and psychological theory, open-ended nature, and heavy contrast to other anime series.

But what about the flaws in Evangelion? What don't you like about Evangelion and why? What are the aspects you frown upon and would like to see removed or done better? Evangelion is not perfect, so I think we can give a reasoned critique of what its flaws are.

Here's my take on this:

1. The religious imagery would be better replaced by a set of images created specifically for the world of Evangelion. This reduces the potential for people to become confused over their meaning, gives less ammunition for critics to say that Evangelion is pretentious (especially when the creators come out and say they included religious imagery just to look cool), and increases the focus on the the psychological aspects of Evangelion.

2. Reduce the amount of fan-service, for reasons already explained in another thread.

3. Get rid of Pen-Pen, because I found it to be more irritating than funny and also because it contributes insignificantly to the main themes of the show.
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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby Sachi » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:55 am

J_Faulkner wrote:1. The religious imagery would be better replaced by a set of images created specifically for the world of Evangelion. This reduces the potential for people to become confused over their meaning, gives less ammunition for critics to say that Evangelion is pretentious (especially when the creators come out and say they included religious imagery just to look cool), and increases the focus on the the psychological aspects of Evangelion.

2. Reduce the amount of fan-service, for reasons already explained in another thread.

3. Get rid of Pen-Pen, because I found it to be more irritating than funny and also because it contributes insignificantly to the main themes of the show.

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Postby Ornette » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:12 am

Some talk of flaws in here: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=6153
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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:12 am

For me --

1) the needless and clumsy attempt at a retrospective shoehorning in of an A/S ship post-airing, when the original series said what it needed without that accretion.

2) the sadly inevitable return of the meta-human condition in how the TV end was rewritten.
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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby Killericon » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:14 am

Sachi wrote:
J_Faulkner wrote:1. The religious imagery would be better replaced by a set of images created specifically for the world of Evangelion. This reduces the potential for people to become confused over their meaning, gives less ammunition for critics to say that Evangelion is pretentious (especially when the creators come out and say they included religious imagery just to look cool), and increases the focus on the the psychological aspects of Evangelion.

2. Reduce the amount of fan-service, for reasons already explained in another thread.

3. Get rid of Pen-Pen, because I found it to be more irritating than funny and also because it contributes insignificantly to the main themes of the show.

This is why you're dead to me. I wouldn't change a damned thing about Eva.


I wouldn't change anything about EVA itself, but I could do without the slash fanfiction and hentai...

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Postby Agentomega » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:35 am

Note: There are no spoilers here.

Mh... I think certain parts of Rebuild 2.0 were cartoonish, but other than that, I like Eva as it is.
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Postby EVA X » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:56 am

Ya know...I after some thought...Evangelion is perfect as it. :toothy: :toothy:
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Postby GasmaskAvenger » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:02 am

okay guys


The one thing that stands out to me being a massive negative aspect is the contrived "Clone" thing regarding Rei


I won't go into a lot of reasons why I do not like that at all (If I did, I would be here all day), but yeah
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Postby LiLi » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:08 am

Hmmm... a few items right off the top of my head,

- Tone down the fan-service a notch;

- Do not get rid of Pen-Pen, but give him his backstory from the manga and do not show him doing too much over-the-top stuff like reading newspapers in a reclining chair. Or do it with a less LOL ANIME MASCOT COMEDY feeling;

- The Jet Alone episode (the merits of which I can now appreciate) could have been executed better, with less of a fillery feeling, I guess;

- Replace some of the blah animation from, say, episode 6 with its polished D&R version;

- Give Rei some ON-SCREEN character development between eps.07-23;

- Take out most of the clumsy A/S retconning Prof. Tines mentioned;

- Let Asuka shine on her own the first time she appears;

- A bit more chara development on Kaworu please; let him meet Misato and/or other characters ON-SCREEN;

- Was that scene in the hospital room in EoE really necessary? :shinji_boohoo:

- Let Osamu Dezaki direct episode 24 just to see what would come out;

*is bricked*

This said, since Anno is now working on Rebuild, I don't really feel the need to rereretcon Evangelion: the series + EoE again. Except maybe for switching those clumsy frames from ep.6 with their D&R version... yeah.
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Postby Xard » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:19 am

Fanservice :hurr:

there's no such thing as A/S retcon*



*speaking as someone who also saw on-air episodes first


Only thing I'd really do is this:

- Replace some of the blah animation from, say, episode 6 with its polished D&R version;


I really don't get why "Rei smile" from D&R was not used to replace original animation for DC versions of eps. A lot of other animation got replaced...
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Postby GasmaskAvenger » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:23 am

I actually prefer the original Rei smile animation over the D&R version and the Rebuild version (Rebuild would be in second place, IMO)
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Postby NemZ » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:24 am

- It's fine for him to fail or be held back by bakalite/mom, but Shinji should make a noticeable effort to get to the damned hanger at least starting from the moment he is aware that Asuka is out there fighting.

- Ditch the A/S shipping slapped into the DC episodes

- Go back to the TV transhumanist version of instrumentality, and perhaps a bit beyond into this wild new frontier of radical freedom.

- Bring Kaworu in earlier and tone down the obvious weirdness so that his being an angel is an actual surprise rather than just the last of the monster-of-the-week brigade.

- Less angels overall, but make most of them multi-episode affairs. Nearly every angel should be a genuine threat and capable of learning/adapting to the situation as it unfolds, not just a pileup of one-trick-ponies.

- Crank way back on the silliness factor of the action arc. It's absolutely possible to have a calm-before-the-storm section without resorting to all this slapstick.

- Rei needs more screentime after Asuka's arrival, and not just with Shinji.

- Kill Toji. If he's just going to be written out anyway, why not?

- Give Kensuke something to do in the plot besides just geeking out... but don't let him pilot and sure as hell don't ship him with anyone important.
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Postby Uriel Septim VII » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:39 am

No monologues that deal with psychological and ontological subjects. Either do something while having a casual conversation about the subjects or just throw a damn book at Shinji.
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Postby Xard » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:46 am

inb4 yet another "EOTV IS NOT FUCKING TRANSHUMANIST GIGGLESHIZZLE YES IT IS NO IT'S NOT" fight erupting (it's not and there's no reason to think so :tongue: )

Uriel Septim VII wrote:No monologues that deal with psychological and ontological subjects. Either do something while having a casual conversation about the subjects or just throw a damn book at Shinji.


uhh, they were done like they were for a reason

- It's fine for him to fail or be held back by bakalite/mom, but Shinji should make a noticeable effort to get to the damned hanger at least starting from the moment he is aware that Asuka is out there fighting.


nothing to gain from this. :shrug:
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Postby Uriel Septim VII » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:04 am

Xard wrote:inb4 yet another "EOTV IS NOT FUCKING TRANSHUMANIST GIGGLESHIZZLE YES IT IS NO IT'S NOT" fight erupting (it's not and there's no reason to think so)


So my theory on Fuyutsuki being a cyborg from a post technological singularity cyberpunk city is forfeit?
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Postby Monk Ed » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:15 am

A/S... Retcon? Wha? How can it possibly be a retcon? The Wall of Jericho moment (complete with very obviously intentional giving of a view down nightshirt), the "Hey Shinji, wanna kiss?"... All that was in the original airing. What the heck is there to retcon?
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Postby GasmaskAvenger » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:23 am

I guess retcon any romantic implications between the two


As I said earlier, I would immediately retcon Rei being a clone of Yui Ikari, as well as the Reiquarium

how this effects the dummy plug system? It could be more like an actual simulation of how one of the actual pilots act, which are digitally scanned and recording during combat training
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Postby NemZ » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:39 am

Monk Ed wrote:A/S... Retcon? Wha? How can it possibly be a retcon? The Wall of Jericho moment (complete with very obviously intentional giving of a view down nightshirt), the "Hey Shinji, wanna kiss?"... All that was in the original airing. What the heck is there to retcon?


Asuka clearly wants Shinji to like her, but without the added DC content there is no indication she actually cared about him as more than a teammate/rival and convenient Kaji-stand-in for personal practice.

This isn't the place to get into arguments over this stuff though.
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Postby LiLi » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:00 am

NemZ wrote:- Bring Kaworu in earlier and tone down the obvious weirdness so that his being an angel is an actual surprise rather than just the last of the monster-of-the-week brigade.


Yeah. I'd like something more along the lines of the more "human" Kaworu from That-Which-Shan't-Be-Named, ver.1.0.

- Crank way back on the silliness factor of the action arc. It's absolutely possible to have a calm-before-the-storm section without resorting to all this slapstick.


Yes, please. Wasn't sure how to word it.

- Rei needs more screentime after Asuka's arrival, and not just with Shinji.


Exactly.

- Kill Toji. If he's just going to be written out anyway, why not?


I have to regretfully agree. I love the guy, but... yeah.
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Postby Joseph the PRPD » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:21 am

-The Jet Alone episode.

-Matarael. So weak and so boring.

-Toji surviving. If Toji died I think there would have been more impact. Him surviving after such an attack was so damn cliche!

-Agreeing with Nemz, Rei not getting enough screen time after Asuka's arrival.

-Kaworu's short appearance. I felt that Kaworu should have been introduced earlier in the series.
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