NGE Ep.24 Script Drafts & Rebuild

[LiLi]

I thought I'd make a thread to discuss the materials presented here where their possible role within the Rebuild continuity is concerned.

To get us started:

- Do you see any potential for parallels between Rebuild and the Drafts?

-Can you see any elements from the Drafts being incorporated in 3.0 or 4.0?

- Do you think Shinji has displayed any significant romantic/sexual attraction to the opposite sex (or lack thereof) in Rebuild so far?

Feel free to go crazy with spoilers and speculation!

[SaltyJoe]

-Can you see any elements from the Drafts being incorporated in 3.0 or 4.0?

Hmm, i skimmed through the drafts, and i can honestly say the only element i can see incorporated into Rebuild is Kaworu interacting with other characters besides Shinji.

I mean, in the drafts (and in the original series, too) Kaworu came out of the blue into Shinji's life when he was at an emotional low-point (well, he seemed to be pretty self depriciating in the first draft, the second draft is much like what came to be aired, and we all know what Episode 24 was like). But this time around, Shinji both seemed to be somewhat stronger than his original counterpart, and generally gained more emotional support from the people around him. Even in mundane scenes like the picnic at the aquarium, everyone was prasing him about how great his cooking is.

What i'm trying to say, it is pretty much impossible to present Kaworu yet again as the "prince on a white horse", the only person who shows genuine affection towards Shinji, since this just wouldn't be true anymore. I'm sure that the way their relationship is handled will be drastically different compared to what we could see previously (much hinges on when will Shinji be yanked out of Unit-01 and how much he will learn about Rei before he meets Kaworu, but still). Not to mention, not only is Shinji different, Kaworu's own build up so far gives him a very different tone from the series version of Tabby-kun.

- Do you think Shinji has displayed any significant romantic/sexual attraction to the opposite sex (or lack thereof) in Rebuild so far?

That's a trickier question, though. Shinji shows flusterdness and confusion in the presence of nude female bodies (Rei and Asuka), but so far, i would describe him as "asexual". It is impossible to decide whether the confusion i mentioned above stems from his hormones, or from socialization, that is, he LEARNED that he should be flustered when seeing a girl in the nude.

On a side note, sexuality has been noticeably toned down in Rebuild compared to the series. Not only there is no visible tension between Shinji and Asuka, but the Misato/Kaji interactions are also more "chaste" so far.

[LiLi]

Thank you for your input!

I mean, in the drafts (and in the original series, too) Kaworu came out of the blue into Shinji's life when he was at an emotional low-point (well, he seemed to be pretty self depriciating in the first draft, the second draft is much like what came to be aired, and we all know what Episode 24 was like).

Well, TBH Shinji went into a very dark place after the Bardiel Incident - I shudder to think what would happen to him if he were to lose Rei...

Shinji seems to have low self esteem issues in all of his incarnations (he even says in 1.0 he isn't worth protecting... and by the end of 2.0 he is past caring about what will become of him...)

He seemed somewhat isolated from his companions in D2, but in D1? Not so much, I think. Asuka was unusually outreaching, caring and open to helping him, Rei didn't seem to freak him out particularly IIRC, and Kensuke even invited him to a party. Hikari seemed on decent terms with him as well... Misato tried to look after him and seemed to care about him deeply (I have to update the drafts with more details, but IIRC Ritsuko said that Misato had been able to keep going after Kaji's death just cause Shinji was there...)

He even had a talk with Ritsuko!

But he still pushed them away and thought he sucked.

But what hit me is that the scenario profiling itself after 2.0 could, theoretically, lead us to an encounter similar to what happened in Draft 2: the city has been destroyed and evacuated, Rei might be dead or trapped into Eva 01 indefinitely, Pirate!Asuka is (reasonably) bound to have some issues... Misato could still be left as Shinji's caretaker/Oneesan figure but, who knows?

Losing all his friends that way after he had actually built a decent bond with them would be bound to hurt even more, I'd think?

And by the end of 2.0 Kaworu seems pretty (creepily) set on performing his 'Prince on a White Horse' routine! ;)

"I WILL MAKE YOU HAPPY, YOU JUST WAIT!"

We could probably expect to see Kaworu interacting with the other characters in the next movies... But so much is still up in the air...!!!

Not to mention, not only is Shinji different, Kaworu's own build up so far gives him a very different tone from the series version of Tabby-kun.

So far I'd say we have at least 4 or 5 versions of Tabby-kun: EMK, NGE!K, D1!K, D2!K, RoE!K. They all act somewhat different, with D1 and D2 versions being the most "human" perhaps?

That's a trickier question, though. Shinji shows flusterdness and confusion in the presence of nude female bodies (Rei and Asuka), but so far, i would describe him as "asexual".

It might have been embarrassment. He also didn't seem at all flustered by having Mari's breasts flung right into his face... He did seem flustered by Kaji's approach though and did seem to play along/act "flirtingly" with him in the following scene - but the nature of that is also open to interpretation, I guess?

On a side note, sexuality has been noticeably toned down in Rebuild compared to the series. Not only there is no visible tension between Shinji and Asuka, but the Misato/Kaji interactions are also more "chaste" so far.

Agree...

[Joseph the PRPD]

- Do you see any potential for parallels between Rebuild and the Drafts?

Well it's possible. In 1.0 Anno had done things he originally wanted to do in NGE. (Ex: Ramiel fight.)

-Can you see any elements from the Drafts being incorporated in 3.0 or 4.0?

It could happen or something entirely different.

- Do you think Shinji has displayed any significant romantic/sexual attraction to the opposite sex (or lack thereof) in Rebuild so far?

So far he has only shown feelings for Rei and not Asuka. heh heh

I have not gotten around to actually reading through the draft scripts so I'll try to read it when I can. Possibly later today.

[Lucretius]

I think having Shinji fall madly in love with Kaworu draft 1 style would feel pretty forced...the story's 2/3 over and he hasn't even met Kaworu yet. I have the feeling that Kaworu's relationship with Kaworu will be manga-ish, with Shinji probably threatening. From the little we've seen of Rebuild!Kaworu, he doesn't seem too cuddly.

Thoguh it is odd that there's nothing obviously heterosexual about Shinji at this point. *scratches chin*

[LiLi]

I think having Shinji fall madly in love with Kaworu draft 1 style would feel pretty forced...the story's 2/3 over and he hasn't even met Kaworu yet.

Well, even in the drafts Kaworu didn't pop up until 24/26!
He might get a (comparatively) early start with Shinji this time! ;)

:EDIT: Actually, I wonder if/how they've met before...

Thoguh it is odd that there's nothing obviously heterosexual about Shinji at this point. *scratches chin*

Pretty much my thoughts exactly.

[SaltyJoe]

Okay, well, "impossible" is too constrainig, i guess, but i thought one of the major differences of 2.0 compared to the corresponding episodes of the original series is that it gave a much more positive spin on the various relationships of Shinji (especially on the one with Rei). Really, the only one that has gone sour so far is the father/son link with Gendo. I guess that even though if his relationships all crumble after he returns, the happy moments he had might give him some emotional backup to avoid a complete breakdown, or to avoid getting into a mental state where he would rely on a single person for his happiness.

I shudder to think what would happen to him if he were to lose Rei...

I did write that a lot, and i mean A LOT hinges on what kind of a world will Shinji come back into, and what he will learn about Ayanami, or what will happen to Rei herself.

and by the end of 2.0 he is past caring about what will become of him...

True, but just as he gone from "Everything seems fine!" to "I HATE YOU DADDY! I DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN THIS WORLD ANYMORE!" he could actually do a rebound when he comes out (i tend to think that mustering up some will to face the world again will be a prequisite for him to get out of Sho), especially if Yui gets to do some therapy on him (but this is really wild speculation, and since Rei=Yui in a sense, the revelations inside Eva-01 might cause him more pain than anything else so far.).

But he still pushed them away and thought he sucked.

But we don't know what happened to Shinji before the Draft 1 version of Episode 24 in the version of the whole story that draft was made for. So he might have had some deeper reasons to go all e-mauh.

the city has been destroyed and evacuated, Rei might be dead or trapped into Eva 01 indefinitely, Pirate!Asuka is (reasonably) bound to have some issues... Misato could still be left as Shinji's caretaker/Oneesan figure but, who knows?

And these are the big questions: will Rei be dead/trapped when Shinji comes out (from Sho, that is. Not from the closet.)? Will Asuka be as messed up as everybody (myself included) thinks she will be? Will Misato reach a similarly pitiful state like in the series because of Kaji dying or whatever, or not? And what about the ever so cheery and positive Mari?

These are the main unknowns in our equation, and we won't get answers unti the next movie gets released. So that's why i think it's better to keep the speculation centered around how Shinji's character has developed so far in the Rebuild series, and how Kaworu was handled up till now.

And by the end of 2.0 Kaworu seems pretty (creepily) set on performing his 'Prince on a White Horse' routine! ;)

"I WILL MAKE YOU HAPPY, YOU JUST WAIT!"

Yeah, but he also seemed more threatening than ever. Also, remember the discussion with Seele at the end of 1.0: he is playing according to a script (in his own words). Who knows what does that script say about making Shinji "happy", i.e. how genuine are Kaworu's intentions.

He did seem flustered by Kaji's approach though and did seem to play along/act "flirtingly" with him in the following scene - but the nature of that is also open to interpretation, I guess?

Well, subjectivity and all.. but i think you're seenig things here.

So far he has only shown feelings for Rei and not Asuka. heh heh

You're confusing things. Feelings of affection (which Shinji certainly displayed more towards Rei than anyone else) are not the same as sexual attraction. IMHO, Shinji didn't get to sexaul regarding anyone so far. I mean, did he get a boner? Did he try to kiss anyone?

TheRRSS stands for "The Rabid Rei/Shinji Shipper", BTW .

[Joseph the PRPD]

You're confusing things.

I wasn't talking about sexual feelings.

TheRRSS stands for "The Rabid Rei/Shinji Shipper", BTW .

[LiLi]

He did seem flustered by Kaji's approach though and did seem to play along/act "flirtingly" with him in the following scene - but the nature of that is also open to interpretation, I guess?

Well, subjectivity and all.. but i think you're seenig things here.

Hey, I'm not implying Shinji is in love with Kaji or anything of the sort - just pointing out he seemed more flustered by Kaji's playful teasing *cue Shinji's girly scream* than by Mari's boobs trying to suffocate him and the (unusual for Shinji as we knew him, IMO) way he behaved afterwards.

"But you said it was a date... I thought you were a more honest kind of guy..."

Then again we've been told we were seeing things for over a decade, sooo...

I wasn't talking about sexual feelings.

Yeah, I've been trying to figure out whether Shinji might be harbouring romantic-but-asexual feelings for Teh Rei...

[Legendary]

There is a difference between the Kaji and Mari incidents. Kaji comes out of the blue, corners Shinji, and appears to be actively trying to romance him, despite being twice his age. He seems to be actively forcing contact with Shinji, and that's kinda scary from a guy like Kaji.

Mari LITERALLY comes out of the blue, tries to get Shinji out of the way, accidentally boobs him, but crawls away quickly. And then has lots of nice panty shots for him to look at. The only thing remotely threatening about that is that her boobs are terrifyingly jiggly. Oh, and that she sorta fell out of the sky.

On the Drafts thing, I'm not sure. Neither Shinji's cello nor his swimming ability seems to have come up (as far as I remember, but I will admit to being teh stupid), and both of those were the really fun moments of Kaworu. I wouldn't be surprised if Shikinami were impressed with Kaworu the way Asuka was going to be, however, as going radio drama on him and calling him Homo-boy all the time doesn't seem to be quite her style.

So that leaves Shinji romance. Personally, I think he's just not especially attracted to the girls as opposed to being asexual. All three of them have issues that would make any sane man afraid.

[Joseph the PRPD]

Kaji was sort of playing gay chicken.

[SaltyJoe]

I wasn't talking about sexual feelings.

Sorry, i think i misunderstood what Lili was trying to get at in this thread. That is, i thought one of the real questions is "Do you think that Shinji's sexuality has been handled ambiguously enough in Rebuild so far to leave the possibility of him batting for the other team open?", and that is why i processed things through a sexual filter.

It is very clear that Shinji has feelings for Rei, it is only the nature of those feelings that are questionable: platonic love? Infatuation created by a subconscious linkinkg of Rei to his mother? A sibling like bond? Or romantic emotions? This is not clear as of yet, IMHO, but one thing that could be said for sure that so far, sexuality has not reared it's ugly head in any of his relationships.

Hey, I'm not implying Shinji is in love with Kaji or anything of the sort(...) "But you said it was a date... I thought you were a more honest kind of guy..."

Yeah, i got that much. I was merely saying that in my take, Shinji wasn't really flirtatious. Rather, the question he posed could be interpreted as "Why are we digging around the melons instead of doing... anything else?"

On the Drafts thing, I'm not sure. Neither Shinji's cello nor his swimming ability seems to have come up (as far as I remember, but I will admit to being teh stupid)

No, neither of those things came up in Rebuild so far.

I wouldn't be surprised if Shikinami were impressed with Kaworu the way Asuka was going to be

That's an interesting idea. If take thing one step further and assume that Shikinami crawls out of her probable post-Sangouki nightmares in a bad shape, i could totally see her taking Shinji's place in fangirling Kaworu ("He is so nice, warm, open, gentle..." the list goes on). Than again, though i do think that Kaworu will interact with more people than he did in the anime (or in the manga), i guess his real focus will always be Shinji.

[LiLi]

Yeah, i got that much. I was merely saying that in my take, Shinji wasn't really flirtatious. Rather, the question he posed could be interpreted as "Why are we digging around the melons instead of doing... anything else?"

IIRC, Kaji said he was going to make Shinji earn his salary.

Shinji went, The canned coffee you bought me earlier? But you said it was a date... I thought you were a more honest/serious guy than that.

Meaning, Awww, you're making me work for it even though you said it was a date?

That's why I said it sounded like he was (flirtatiously) playing along (with Kaji's previous act) - something I hadn't expected him to do.

"Why are we digging around the melons instead of doing... anything else?"

That sounds so... so... something!

@Legendary:

@Kaji: Of course I'm not surprised Shinji would freak out at that... Which does not explain his behavior in the next scene though, IMHO - if anything, it makes it more remarkable... (some people have said he seemed disappointed it wasn't a date after all... )

@Mari: What I meant is, I find it interesting that even though he's been flashed and squished, Shinji doesn't seem particularly... "happy to see her", shall we say. Normally, all that fanservice might have been occasion for MUCHO blushing and nosebleeding, so to speak. He seems to find Mari's close-up sniffling rather... intimidating too? (Understandably).

Personally, I think he's just not especially attracted to the girls as opposed to being asexual. All three of them have issues that would make any sane man afraid.

Wait. Since when is Shinji a sane man?

PS: Added the last bit from pag. 2 of Draft 2.

:EDIT:
@PRPD: What did I just watch?

[SaltyJoe]

That's why I said it sounded like he was (flirtatiously) playing along (with Kaji's previous act) - something I hadn't expected him to do.

I think you are making out Shinji to be more savvy than he is. In 1.0, Misato stated that he is "Such a naive boy". And i have to agree with her: i don't think Shinji knew he should play along, or that there was anything to play along with in the first place. Rather, he just didn't understand why Kaji made him his gardening slave all of a sudden.

[Legendary]

He's also probably in shock that a girl just fell out of the sky.

[LiLi]

@SaltyJoe:

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

(Nothing wrong with Shinji being playful anyway, I was just surprised).

[Synapsid]

- Do you think Shinji has displayed any significant romantic/sexual attraction to the opposite sex (or lack thereof) in Rebuild so far?

Uh to be honest there really isn't any actual sign of it, his interactions with Asuka and Rei are rather vague and there's nothing that would have to be sexual about it...in fact the closest thing I saw to arousal came during his "date", so there's a possibility that this Shinji isn't into girls

Well, TBH Shinji went into a very dark place after the Bardiel Incident - I shudder to think what would happen to him if he were to lose Rei...

Shinji seems to have low self esteem issues in all of his incarnations (he even says in 1.0 he isn't worth protecting... and by the end of 2.0 he is past caring about what will become of him...)
...But what hit me is that the scenario profiling itself after 2.0 could, theoretically, lead us to an encounter similar to what happened in Draft 2: the city has been destroyed and evacuated, Rei might be dead or trapped into Eva 01 indefinitely, Pirate!Asuka is (reasonably) bound to have some issues... Misato could still be left as Shinji's caretaker/Oneesan figure but, who knows?

Losing all his friends that way after he had actually built a decent bond with them would be bound to hurt even more, I'd think?

And by the end of 2.0 Kaworu seems pretty (creepily) set on performing his 'Prince on a White Horse' routine! ;)

I certainly agree with you about that, he was going to Zeruel kill everyone until what he had left got eaten in front of him, then he just went into yandere mode and went after Ayanami with the idea that it didn’t matter if he and everyone else died over that (and they would have died if Kaworu wasn’t around to clean up after the puppy) so it very much looks like Shinji has invested all he has in ReiII. If Anno were to take her away in some sort of bitterly ironic way that makes everything Shin did in vain then it very much would leave him a complete mess so having Kaworu walk in on an abandoned puppy might be likely. And it does look like his relation with Misato crumbled after what happened to Asuka, so outside of Rei he really is alone.
I very much do see the scripts as moving for that type of "prince" Kaworu

Not to mention, not only is Shinji different, Kaworu's own build up so far gives him a very different tone from the series version of Tabby-kun.

It does, Tv Tabby seemed a lot more relaxed/resigned about what was to happen, where as this Kaworu seems to be completely focused on Shinji and making him "happy" which might actualy play out rather darkly if he really does try and force Shinji into taking a path for happiness (I don't mean force like in the CYOAK which I'm sure could be soul crushing if it did happen. But as in that Kaworu deprives Shinji of his free will, and possibly more: Tabby-Kun did spear one of the twin cores which might not be good for Rei...If that does happen and Shinji learns who threw it he might want to hate Kaworu(especially if Kaworu explains it by saying that he did the right thing), even if he's already fallen in love with him.

Misato stated that he is "Such a naive boy". ..Rather, he just didn't understand why Kaji made him his gardening slave all of a sudden

A gardening slave when he had instead been promised a date that Shinji apparently looked forward to. Kaji/Shin seemed to come out as the most overtly sexual interaction out of the film: Wanko-kun did blush at the others or whimper at them, but nothing from the other scenes indicates that Shinji felt anything other than embarrassment or strong familial bonds with them, but his arousal during the kiss and whimpering about dating really do seem to say something about what he felt...and it did almost seem like flirting, or at least as close to that as Shinji ever gets.
And Misato isn't always right about her observations or instincts, she her cheerleading nearly killed everybody in 2.0 (I guess she has some similarities with dady).

[Sailor Star Dust]

I think Kaworu wants 3I on his terms for Shinji, not Rei or Yui's.

Also, A/S ending. I can feel it.

[Joseph the PRPD]

Oh dear God I hope Asuka gets killed off! Yes I know. I sound like a jackass.
Hey! Maybe Anno will have Asuka asplode instead of Rei when they fight Armisael. That would be a perfect troll job.

[Synapsid]

Also, A/S ending. I can feel it.

Hmm , well Asuka's infatuation/jealousy probably was very relevant to the plot, I don't know about endings, but I'm sure Asuka's going to strangle him this time around, her "Kirai" monologue from 22 comes to mind.I wonder if she might not try to kill him or Kaworu.

Oh dear God I hope Asuka gets killed off! Yes I know. I sound like a jackass. Hey! Maybe Anno will have Asuka asplode instead of Rei when they fight Armisael. That would be a perfect troll job.

What would be the point in that? They've already killed her, to do that might be trolling but it wouldn't have any more impact or meaning than having Shinji sleep with all the guys in NERV would... and I think Armisael is irelevant this time around, Kaworu's spear or Yui might have allready done that job with Rei. Unless if they're going to use it to violate Shinji or Kaworu this time around.