Official Rebuild Dub Thread

[Ringworm128]

I'm yet to see 3.0 but if it's anything like the other rebuild dubs it boggles my mind how anyone could say Spike Spencer has made no improvements. He's rebuild performance is far more natural than the TV series.

[ElMariachi]

To be honest, nobody cares about Anno's "direction." He's not even the SOLE director of this damned film!

He's still the main director and creator and writer of the film, as well as the founder of the whole franchise and of the studios who's making the movie, so his direction is important! Especially since all the characters(minus Mari) comes from Anno's psyche and imagination.

Also, that's wrong. The chief director almost never directs voice actors themselves. The sound director does. Also, the casting director was Kanako Arima, not Anno. I'm sick of this site refusing to criticize the JP version.

Except for Evangelion, where Anno did directed the voices so they could deliver the lines in the exact way he wants for his story.
Almost all of the VA interview mentions how Anno corrected their performance so they would deliver their lines in a very specific way. Hell, he even made Miyuki Sawashiro(Sakura) repeat her first lines of the movie many times because he wanted that Sakura convey a deep admiration for Misato when talking to her by phone!

And this time the VA's inflexion is very important, since Q is a film full of subtleties and ambiguities, where you never know what a character is really thinking or feeling so it will confuse the audience as much as Shinji, that's especially true in Misato's case, where she's supposed to be cold, distant and resentful toward him, yet can't bring herself to kill him when the moment of truth comes, and her last line was supposed to be of worry and a prayer for him(the original script specifically refers to that line has having this meaning) to show us that there's still care in her heart for Shinji, therefore all hope isn't lost for him.
That's why the English VA making her voices as enraged denatures this moment, because it makes the audience think that Shinji is really a dead man and will get a bullet between the eyes the moment he comes back.

[Reichu]

I'm yet to see 3.0 but if it's anything like the other rebuild dubs it boggles my mind how anyone could say Spike Spencer has made no improvements. He's rebuild performance is far more natural than the TV series.

All I know is that for large chunks of 3.0, Shinji is under extreme emotional exertion, and Spencer completely fails to pull this off. He has no subtlety to his inflections; he just yells, and any time he raises his voice the results are just... ugh. It's an assault on the ears. You can totally tell that it's an adult man trying to force his voice into a range where it should not tread; any illusion of him being a convincing teenager (which I don't think I ever really bought into in the first place) shatters.

So I could say that it boggles my mind that nobody else here is complaining about Spencer as loudly as me!

[HeeroYuyIII]

@ElMariachi Let me rephrase a friend of mine's saying. Just because somebody makes a choice does not mean it is a good choice. Just because somebody creates something, does not mean it is good. Just because somebody has an intention does not mean those intentions are well documented. Anno can CHOOSE whoever he likes, but that does not mean it is a GOOD choice. I find it funny how many people on this forum harp of Tiffany Grant, but don't bat an eyelid to Yuko Miyamura's ear grating performance.

She does not have any subtly, contrary to what many people think.
She is just as abrasive as Grant.
Her German pronunciation is godawful and no-one complains, yet when words that are in Katakana and aren't in Japanese in the dub, people go nuts. For example one guy getting butthurt over "Lawn-jie-nuss" as if the Japanese comes close to getting that right. By default, it cannot, since the word starts with an L.
Her voice is barely better than the generic Japanese "idol" VA of today, yet many people will criticize those VAs and not Miyamura.

That's just Miyamura. Also, intentions don't mean anything. Tomino intended Victory Gundam to be many things and he himself shows an incredible amount of disdain towards his work in that show. Same with Zeta Gundam. Now, if many people regard V Gundam as a generally good Gundam work, regardless of what Tomino says, then WHY should I CARE how Anno directs his VAs in his work? If I hate a voice or love them, I will say so. You cannot use the "creator intended this" rhetoric to discredit any negative criticism. Furthermore, you cannot use that as a weapon against whoever dubs Evangelion into any language. I, not Anno am watching this movie. MY judgement is what matters. I do not care about how Anno intended things to be. I watch anime for MY entertainment and to have MY opinions and thoughts. Don't defend Anno for making poor choices, while berating Funimation and friends for doing an adaptation.

[pwhodges]

Her German pronunciation is godawful and no-one complains,

This is well known, and has been complained about. But what is the function of continuing to complain (or of complaining that others aren't complaining enough) rather than accepting that that's how it is now and it ain't going to change?

[Reichu]

For example one guy getting butthurt over "Lawn-jie-nuss" as if the Japanese comes close to getting that right. By default, it cannot, since the word starts with an L.

Within the limitations of Japanese's phonetic and syllabic system, the pronunciation of "Longinus" is actually as faithful to the original Latin as it could be. In other words, the Japanese make a better effort of pronouncing it correctly than the English speakers do.

At the same time, subjecting all words and names of Latin origin to a drastic phonemic shift is basically institutionalized into English, so the dub can't really be blamed for the inelegant pronunciation of "Longinus"; that actually is the "correct" way to say it.

I do not care about how Anno intended things to be.

Well, since the way he 'intended things to be' is one of the biggest forces responsible for these films, I cannot begin to fathom why you're watching them in the first place.

At any rate, this thread is for discussing the new movies' dubs, not reacting against criticism of the dubs.

[WunderBah]

So I could say that it boggles my mind that nobody else here is complaining about Spencer as loudly as me!

Have you heard his performance in 2.0?

[Reichu]

Have you heard his performance in 2.0?

No. Should I listen to it so I can complain about that, too? :p

I'm not sure what this has to do with nobody else reporting equivalent Aural Violation of the Spencer Kind for 3.0, at any rate.

[pwhodges]

It'll be easier to get views for or against when people who haven't had the chance to hear it in the cinema get their DVDs.

[gatotsu911]

No. Should I listen to it so I can complain about that, too? :p

At least you're honest.

Anyway. I like how grown-up "tired of this shit" Asuka is more foul-mouthed... even if all her profanity is in English and not German. For shame.

Also, mfw I see people complaining about the dub's pronunciation of Longinus when it is in fact the first time in the history of the Eva franchise that it's been pronounced correctly.

[Reichu]

At least you're honest.

Was there ever any doubt?

Also, mfw I see people complaining about the dub's pronunciation of Longinus when it is in fact the first time in the history of the Eva franchise that it's been pronounced correctly.

"Correctly" is relative.

[pwhodges]

I'm not aware that any Romans survived long enough to tell us categorically how their language was pronounced.

[Reichu]

I'm not aware that any Romans survived long enough to tell us categorically how their language was pronounced.

You are surely aware that there are people who spend their entire lives studying language and have ways of approximating how dead tongues may have been spoken. :p Trying to make an educated guess is better than the alternative ("Welp, there's no way to know at all, so let's just make shit up!").

Hell, all it takes is a quick glance at the extant Romance languages to know that English mauls Latin pronunciation big time.

Ultimately, this really isn't that important. I just find it interesting that the Japanese take more of an interest in pronouncing Latin properly than we do (even though English-speakers, with their extensive phonemic advantage, would have no trouble getting it right).

[pwhodges]

You are surely aware that there are people who spend their entire lives studying language and have ways of approximating how dead tongues may have been spoken.

Of course I am; but their working back through nearly two millennia is bound to have a large margin of error even so. Also, bear in mind that in reality much modern Latin pronunciation that people are aware of is not based on that research, but on the far more widely used church Latin (which also varies between countries). The pronunciation I was taught in school varied again from both of these.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Let's try this again.

No one is to be mocked for their opinion/preference of subs vs dubs.

This thread's purpose is dub discussion only, so if you want to discuss the New Eva Movies dubs vs subs, please create a new thread. There's a general purpose dubs vs subs thread over here in Anime/Manga if anybody wants to get a new discussion going.

[Kendrix]

and her last line was supposed to be of worry and a prayer for him(the original script specifically refers to that line has having this meaning).

Which line, where

Her last "Shinji...!" during 4I, or what she says when the wunder departs? Because to me, the former pissed but with "being powerless to stop the apocalypse" overtaking the pissed-ness, and the contortuions of her face seem to match that.

But meh, I'm fallible and I'm not an expert of Japanese tone. Exact line plz, if possible with details about any ambiguities of the word?

She could as well be "worrying and praying" for the entire world that's just about to be fourth-impacted while WILLE is busy repairing their rudder.





As for Kaworus "adamantness", its presence in the Japanese original tends to be overstated. Unless that's in the script, too.

I really DO need to watch/find this somewhere, if only for curiosity/because everyone will be arguing about it. But Misato seemed very good in the trailer.

Yuko Miyamura's ear grating performance.

Now that's just not true.


The character herself is simply meant to be loud, shrill, fake and bossy to a degree; accept that. No, she would not be a pleasant girlfriend to have, at least not without a very thick skin and lots of hard work.

...the thing is that Grant just makes it a carricature that can't be taken seriously anymore, while Miyamura is capable of conveying subtlety - It's not so much "what" they're doing, but "how", "when" and to which degree.

Yeah, the German is useless, but how much better can you really expected to be?
I guess they put more weight on hiring someone who was appropiate for the role than someone with perfect 1337 foreighn language skills.
It's some weird language with complex-ass grammar that is only spoken in some tiny corners of Europe, and unfortunately considered ugly by most of the world, and not even the only people with a remote interest in speaking it can't agree on how it's spelled; Go figure.

You shouldn't be so quick to disparage someone who probablöy had a lot of impact on shaping the character (see "Kimochi warui" etc and other recorded instances of Anno taking imput seriously)

Ultimately, this really isn't that important. I just find it interesting that the Japanese take more of an interest in pronouncing Latin properly than we do (even though English-speakers, with their extensive phonemic advantage, would have no trouble getting it right).

Well, Japanese is just a language that by nature has a "hard", "clear" pronunciations of the vovels and consonants. They're all soft and "muddled up" (Well, to my ears. I don't mean to insult you languaghwe, it's usually very practical ) in English.
That's also why they get the German organization names relatively right save for the l/r thing. Heck, they even fixed that for "WILLE"

And there is a cultural tendency to feel the need to "appropiate" things... If you compare the American dub of almost any given show to almost any other given dub, you'll probably notice a pattern...

The profanity is probably another symptom of that.
It boggles the mind.

Please explain to me, if I'm just stupid and having a cultural misunderstanding, but it has always confused me:

On the one hand, some treat swear words as some huge moral or religious offense, like it's got inherently bad-ness in it instead of being simply socially inapropiate. You'll get a higher rating for a "fuck" than for a violent gunfight.

On the other, it seems like that same society doesn't take a movie serious without TONS of swearing in it, like you have to get at least SOMe in it. and just glorify it. They have words for referring to words, phrases like "c-word" or "f-bomb", "four letter" etc.

Please enlighten me and deliver me from my stupidness.

Well, it wasn't that unapropiate for Asuka if they didn't exegerate it into ridiculousness (I still have to check for myself), since she's generally crass with her talking and had several "damns" (and one misspronounced "Scheiße!") in the series, but with Mari, it just takes away from her "dissonant lightness" that is a huge part of the character and her appeal.

[ElMariachi]

Which line, where

Her last "Shinji...!" during 4I, or what she says when the wunder departs? Because to me, the former pissed but with "being powerless to stop the apocalypse" overtaking the pissed-ness, and the contortuions of her face seem to match that.

But meh, I'm fallible and I'm not an expert of Japanese tone. Exact line plz, if possible with details about any ambiguities of the word?

She could as well be "worrying and praying" for the entire world that's just about to be fourth-impacted while WILLE is busy repairing their rudder.

I'm talking about her last "Shinji..." during 4I, that's also her last line of the movie, it's Ritsuko who's talking when the Wunder departs.

As for what the script says, I'll quote what Reichu wrote :

ElMariachi: I don't know anything about how Funimation directs their dub casts. The specifics don't really matter, though, since I'm implicitly criticizing whatever process resulted in the "Shinji..." line being delivered that way.

As for the original script, interestingly enough, it says "Shinjitai Misato, utsumuite". Very roughly, this means, "Misato, who wants to believe [in Shinji?], looking down". The implication, far as I can tell, is that Misato is whispering a "prayer", a hope that Shinji will come around and do something about the current situation, since the Wunder crew's hands are tied.

So yeah, sure, she's worried about the world who's about to be impacted to oblivion, but it's also a prayer to Shinji, she knows that he doesn't want to end the world and that he would do anything to stop it's destruction.(which shows that she still has some faith o him)

Her clenched teeth when the Wunder was departing was probably her reminiscing how again they had to rely exclusively on the Evas to save the world and how for all her will to do something and her "ship of hope", she got her ass handed by the Mark.09 and couldn't do anything, ending with the world saved thanks to some miracle that stopped 4I.

[Kendrix]

EDIT 2: Since you replied while I was writing/editing this, I copied it into an extra post.

EDIT: Found it!

As for the original script, interestingly enough, it says "Shinjitai Misato, utsumuite". Very roughly, this means, "Misato, who wants to believe [in Shinji?], looking down".

No need to read things into funny homonyms, except maybe irony (I doubt Asuka's rant about her "held in wrath" and a similar instance of Touji being pissed in ep 14 is supposed to imply that much)

The "...in Shinji?" part is pretty much conjecture. Reaching, even, if you pay ANY attention to context, or the whole rest of the movie.
Even the leap from Reichu's interpretation to your "worry and prayer" (where'd the first word come from?) is huuuuuge.

If she was at least looking up towards him, instead of with her eyes lowered and her teeth gritted...

Still, every bit of script is valuable, I wish that one day someone would translate all the scripts and put them somewhere...
The actual line reveals hidden awesome here, about Misato as a Captain in this operation/ is better than anything I could have thought up.

I think "wants to believe" here refers more to the whole "The impact is on the loose, Armageddon is nigh and Misato can't stop it" situation. She's told she can't do anything, but she just won't accept that the world can't be saved.

She's not so much helplessly cursing at the "root of all evil" as... the same thing without the "helplessly" part. I'm impressed and can't eholly put it into words right now. but relistening to the line now, it's mostly... pressure. The image is one that has her gritting her teeth.

She refuses to have this kid cause her doom, she's gritting her teeth and holding on, and still intends to go neutralize him in spite of all rationality saying she will die now.
Which, Y'know, has never bothered Misato all too much. Rationality, I mean.

...which just fits very well with all we've seen of "Misato as the inspiring badass spaceship captain"; That's how she mantains some "carried" dignity even in dark times.


But to go from "wants to believe" without anything further specified, in the context that she was just told they can't do anything about the situation, to "She totally expects him to do something useful"

There is a long range between "not wishing death upon someone" and actually caring for them.
And actually expecting someone to do good/"believing"/"trusting" in them should be completely off the scale here.
You can perfectly love your three year old, and still know that only a mess will come out of it if you leave them alone with a jar of strawberry jam. Those are different qualities.

Not killing him was not a concious sparing; It was underestimating residual attachment that was bubbling out, because somewhere in her older mammal brain parts, below the nifty monkey rationality structures, he's anchored as the closest thing she ever had to a son, it's a defeat of her willpower by feelings she was actively trying to silence.


Look, I want them to hug and reconcile, too. I'd LOVE to see some ray of hope for Shinji here, but LOOK at her face. AND at the actual line. Next moment you're gonna infer that Misato personally offed Kaji from that shot of her appartment nameplate...

[ElMariachi]

^
The "Shinjitai" part specifically means "want to believe", if it's not in Shinji, then on what else? A miracle? She always said that she didn't believed in miracles, but that you have to make them happen by your own acts(see the Sahaquiel battle briefing with the pilots)

As for why she looks down, maybe it's because she knows that now that EVA-13 is unreachable, there's nothing to stop the DSS Choker to explode(we don't know if she knows that it's the "13rd Angel" who was wearing it now, the Black Moon has an extremely thick and dense hull after all), and deep down hopes that he will found a way to stop 4I by himself before his head explodes(in the end, it's Kaworu who delivered the miracle)

And she does care for him to an extent, the fact she sparred him isn't just some sort of reptilian maternal instinct kicking in against her will, but her consciously knowing that she does care for him enough to not blast his head off, she also gave him back his most precious personal belonging(the SDAT) and outright said that her intend is to protect him when Mark.09 appeared(sure it was a rather twisted and ruthlessly pragmatic way of protecting him, but she nonetheless said that it was her intention)

If she really doesn't care and worry for him at all and her sparring her life was really some instinct leftover kicking in against her will like you said, then there isn't any hope for Shinji to mend his relationship with Misato, or anyone.

[A.T. Fish]

Reiterating that it requires some truly spectacular mental gymnastics to come away with this conclusion from a Japanese cartoon where the Japanese voice actors use a common "Westernized" mispronunciation of a Latin word and the American ones actually pronounce it correctly.

Now I'm curious about the dub pronunciation, was it Lon-gee-nus or did they pronounce the "gi" like in giant?