Evangelion 3.0 Speculation [1]

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby esselfortium » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:42 pm

Yeah, Reichu. Get back on topic. Jeez.

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Postby Reichu » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:34 pm

Jorno: Could quote Salty and post your response over here, like Shin-chan did. Move your post over and I'll delete the vestigial remnant for you.
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Postby Brainman » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:32 pm

View Original PostJornophelanthas wrote:Yes, Shinji did not think things through. He only cared about his own guilt, his own duties, his own responsibilities, and his own inner peace. He achieved that inner peace at the cost of the entire world, and he did not care.
He did a thing that was noble in itself, but absurdly irrational and utterly terrible in the bigger picture.
The point was not that Shinji had become an adult, though. The point was that Shinji had taken an important step in that direction. He still has a long way to go. That's what the next movies are for.


I agree with this. The point is he's chosen a path to walk on at least, but he hasn't "arrived" yet. Whether or not it's positive at all depends on the repercussions, so I say we have to see those first to understand the weight of Shinji's actions (I don't sense it will be seen as positive in hindsight).

So I'm done with that.

And to help reset these tracks, some random speculation points to pursue:

1.) Classmates are dead.
- Shinji's classmates are killed during the angel fight. This fact is kept from him for much of the picture, as he will have most of his time floating in a soup and then with Kawrou. But early on we the audience are made aware of it by a scene showing rescue workers in the rubble discovering a collapsed shelter.

2.) Gaijin Characters.
- Nerv is taken over by another foreign branch. Hard assed generals and commanders from less known districts throw their weight around during an interrogation of the Nerv staff. They're kind of blowhards who only sort of know what they're up to. Opportunists, all of them. They are mostly jealous of the power and influence of the Japanese branch and use this as an opportunity to secure more leverage over the operation. The head of the investigation should be played by Ron Perlman in the english dub. Because that would just get me going.

3.) Space Bandit and Kawrou.
- Is it an angel or another Eva in space that needs shooting? It seems that if it was just an orbital angel again, the lance would just pop that bib and it'd be done with. No need to make a space neko. But perhaps Seele has control over the lance this time and wants to ensure that it doesn't go into orbit. Mark 06 is going down into Dogma again...so maybe he's actually going to seal it up or some other kind of twist. It'd also be interesting if Seele explicitly tells Kawrou not to use the lance, but he disobeys them and uses it at his own discretion. But Seele must have some kind of strong faith in him, or else they wouldn't have given him an eva with so much power. But what's also weird is that if Mark 6 is Seele's trump card, then what the heck is stopping Kawrou from just floating down there and finishing it? There's literally nothing Nerv can do to stop them, so it must be that Seele still needs to prepare something, but what?
Annnnyay, if it isn't an angel, then maybe Asuka has to go up there to fight a flying Kawrou. Or another alternative, Unit 08 has birthed some kinda Black Space God and it's on it's way up into orbit to ice the planet GNR style. And in a fit of desperation they send up a jerry-rigged Unit 02 piloted by a cyclops girl fresh out of the refrigerator to try and shoot it in the face.
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Postby Azathoth » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:10 pm

View Original PostBrainman wrote:But what's also weird is that if Mark 6 is Seele's trump card, then what the heck is stopping Kawrou from just floating down there and finishing it?


Possibility: Kaworu does not want to do it. (We have already seen that he is violently opposed to a Third Impact directed by Shinji; perhaps he doesn't want Third Impact to occur at all. NGE's Kaworu was certainly not much inclined to cause 3I.)
Possibility: SEELE are waiting for one more Angel to die (I think we still have one more, right?)
Possibility: It takes more than one Eva (four, most probably) to complete SEELE's scenario (cf. Kaji mentioning how Shinji has awakened Unit 01 before the other units are gathered or whatever); until Unit 01 is back in working order the desired 3I is not possible.
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Postby Brainman » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:15 pm

^
I'm leaning more towards Kawrou being a trickster than Seele needing the other Evas. Seele seemed pretty dismissive of Evas that weren't Mark 06. Or maybe it has something to do with Unit 08. Like maybe it needs to do something for them.
Why do they even want the Loc-Nar? All it does is melt you.

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Postby Azathoth » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:25 pm

If more than one Eva is required, my hunch is to suggest that four subsidiary Evas are required to take the role of four Adams, while the role of the Mark 06, the ultimate Eva, is to be uplifted by means of their power (their Fruits of Life? their divine halos? their "awakened" nature?) to progenitor/ark/Tree-of-Life status. Like a less sephirotic version of the MP series.
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Postby cd603 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:31 pm

Hey on a side note, has anybody looked up Mark 6 in the bible?? I found some....let's say interesting stuff.

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Postby Azathoth » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:40 pm

Man, I remember in Halo fandom back in the day when people tried to extract some kind of biblical subtext about John's armor being a Mark V...
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Postby Brainman » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:42 pm

That kind of gets me wondering why Mari isn't named Mary. I mean, the silly biblical subtext almost cries out for it. Not to mention the delicious irony of her behavior in that subtext.
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Postby deeRez » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:45 pm

0 to 5 minutes: Eva 2.22's ending is replayed.

5 m to 6 m: Seele shown discussing how mad they are at Gendo and what to do next. They decide on quarantine.

7 m to 11 m: Seele agents storm Nerv Japan, quarantine Eva Unit-01, and arrest everyone else. Various people are shown being arrested, including Mari. Mari is seen pushed, albeit disgruntled.

12 m to 14 m: Shinji is shown floating with Rei in the plug. They discuss what could possibly be going on outside, and get to know each other.

15 m to 16 m: Agents are looking for Gendo/Fuyutski, but they are nowhere to be found. The agents find Asuka's quarantine chambers. They report it back to Seele.

17 m to 18 m: Gendo & Fuyutski are shown running through a tunnel. Gendo is shown carrying a case with him, with what is presumably the "Key of Nebuchadnezzar."

19 m to 21 m: Seele is told that Gendo & Fuyutski were not among the ones arrested at Nerv. Furious, they demand that the agents keep looking. They are also informed of the suspicious presence of Mari.

22 m to 23 m: Seele discusses Lilith no longer being secure (with Nerv Japan in such a state), and decides to bring in re-enforcement to Matsushiro from Bethany Base.
Asuka is to be transferred to Matsushiro as well with Unit-02 to be repaired there as well.

24 m to 25 m: Kaworu descends Dogma to get the other lance, since his is impaled in Unit-01.

26 m to 34 m: Nerv crew are questioned by Seele, one by one.

50 m to 55 m: Gendo & Fuyutski travel to the middle east in secret to look for more information on Seele's dead sea scrolls.
In and of itself, self-evident.

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Postby symbv » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:46 pm

View Original PostBrainman wrote:That kind of gets me wondering why Mari isn't named Mary. I mean, the silly biblical subtext almost cries out for it. Not to mention the delicious irony of her behavior in that subtext.

Because in Japanese Mary is マリ which in NME is transliterated as Mari in English translation. For a Japanese the subtext of her name is already clear enough (if he happens to know something about Christianity).
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Postby Brainman » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:50 pm

deeRez

I like all of that except the first bit. I think it needs something a bit more exciting than a replay to get it back to speed.

symbv

Kind of like how Alucard is still spelled Arucard in the official subtitles for Hellsing even though it's clearly pronounced the other way in the english version?
Last edited by Brainman on Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:51 pm

View Original Postsymbv wrote:Because in Japanese Mary is マリ which in NME is transliterated as Mari in English translation. For a Japanese the subtext of her name is already clear enough (if he happens to know something about Christianity).

Is it because they read it like a contraction of Maria (マリア)? Or do they simply spell it wrong (マリ rather than メリ or something similar)?
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Postby Warren Peace » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:51 pm

It sure isn't clear to me. Virgin or Magdalene? In either case, kind of a leap I think.

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Postby Brainman » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:53 pm

View Original PostWarren Peace wrote:In either case, kind of a leap I think.


The joke being that she doesn't act very much like a biblical figure...and also to poke fun at people grasping at religious straws.
Why do they even want the Loc-Nar? All it does is melt you.

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Postby symbv » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:01 am

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:Is it because they read it like a contraction of Maria (マリア)? Or do they simply spell it wrong (マリ rather than メリ or something similar)?

Right, usually the Bible would write her name as マリヤ instead of マリ, although I think if someone in Japan who is familar with Christianity would be able to make the link, but then it would not be obvious to most viewers even if her name is put as マリヤ (Maria) because the number of Christians or people who are familiar with the religion is quite low in Japan.
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Postby Monk Ed » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:04 am

In my Japanese textbook the character named Mary was called メアリー.
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:08 am

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:In my Japanese textbook the character named Mary was called メアリー.

I suppose that it's because in this case they write Mary, the American/English name, while in the Bible they write Maria, the Latin version.
View Original Postsymbv wrote:Right, usually the Bible would write her name as マリヤ

Do they commonly use this form? It sounds weird, like it was "Mariya" rather than Maria like in Italian and Spanish.
Last edited by Hyper Shinchan on Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby symbv » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:08 am

^ I checked a few online source of Japanese Bible. They all use マリヤ (or マリア) for Mary.

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:In my Japanese textbook the character named Mary was called メアリー.

If only we follow the English pronunciation.

The other advantage of naming her Mari is this sounds like a Japanese name (thus easy to remember) to the Japanese audience. Of course they know Mari is supposed to be a gaijin but they quite like putting Japanese sounding names to those characters too, like Asuka who has only small proportion of Japanese blood in her but still got a fully Japanese name.
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Postby Warren Peace » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:23 am

View Original Postsymbv wrote:Of course they know Mari is supposed to be a gaijin but they quite like putting Japanese sounding names to those characters too, like Asuka who has only small proportion of Japanese blood in her but still got a fully Japanese name.


I have to think that's not a consequence. This...

Image

...seems to confirm that they're linking the characters in some way, so the semi-Gaijin thing is likely part of that.
Last edited by Warren Peace on Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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