Metroid series

Discussions about non-Evangelion related video games, board games, card games and gaming in general.

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Postby Monk Ed » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:46 pm

Of all my Metroid games, the ones I've played the most are in the Metroid Prime Trilogy. Not everyone likes them, but they really are the Metroid concept presented in 3D. One of the noted ironies of Metroid Fusion and Metroid Prime when they came out was that although Metroid Fusion retains the presentation of Super Metroid, Metroid Prime is by far its true spiritual successor between the two, very contrary to the expected case. Prime is all about exploration, whereas Fusion is a much more guided experience.

And I really like Fusion, too. Its guidedness didn't bother me, and the game does open up eventually. But it also contains the most of Samus's personality compared to any game before it, and presents what I feel to be the definitive personality of Samus. Her presentation struck the right balance, compared to the pitfalls for which Other M became notorious. Other M could even be seen as contradicting a number of things presented by Fusion, but then, Other M contradicts a lot of established Metroid knowledge (like Samus suddenly calling the larva "the baby" when she previously only ever called it "the larva" and thought nothing of handing it over to scientists for analysis and experimentation).

Also, I love Fusion for being the last game before Samus's redesign, and I still miss the way she looked in that game under the helmet. She had more of a "cool (hot) big sister" look compared to the "unapproachable supermodel" look introduced by Zero Mission.
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Postby ZapX » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:54 pm

I don't have anything to add to the current discussion (other than to second Prime's awesomeness) but I wanted to leave this here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmfV8IhsHq0
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Postby Monk Ed » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:17 pm

Mere seconds of difference at the end! And that surprising (near-)turnaround that happened in the encounter with the giant metroid! The audience's reactions made the whole thing. Like they said, you couldn't have scripted a better way for it to go.

Not worth spending an hour (or even 26 minutes) of my life on but if you know the game you know the good bits to watch (and if you don't, why would you be watching?).
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"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

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Postby Dataprime » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:54 am

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Which other games do fans recommend?

If you have a 3DS, The original Metroid & Metroid 2 are on the available via the Virtual Console.
Likewise, if you own a Wiiu, Metroid Fusion is available on that.


Pretty much all of the Metroid games in the series are well regarded among fans
minus Other M...
Last edited by Dataprime on Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Monk Ed » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:57 am

I even liked Other M. Not as much as the other games, but it's still pretty good. The endgame was the best part -- searching the whole game map for whatever collectibles you missed. Hard mode was also a lot of fun.
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"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

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Postby Dataprime » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:17 am

Yoshio Sakamoto "[does] not intend to" return to the franchises he is best known for (e.g. Metroid).

CVG: In your Tomodachi presentation, you mentioned your mission to 'create a game
that moves the industry forwards'. Does that mean you will not return to the more traditional
game series that you're known for?

Sakamoto: I do not intend to do so. There might [currently] be various tasks I might
be involved in with past series. However, even if so I would always like to introduce new
entertainment and new fun to those series.


As you know Sakamoto is one of the co-creators of the Metroid series
and has been involved with every main Metroid game (outside of the Prime series)


http://www.computerandvideogames.com/459245/i-want-to-challenge-myself-says-metroid-series-director/

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Postby Monk Ed » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:23 am

At first I was like :gasp:

But then I was like :grin:

The story I understand is that Sakamoto bears the blame for what everyone hated the most about Other M: the writing.
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"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:14 am

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:I've only played (and love love love) Super Metroid, but would like to at least play the original or Zero Mission someday. Which other games do fans recommend?


The Metroid Prime Trilogy. Metroid Prime 2 gets criticized for being too difficult sometimes but it's still a good game.

Metroid Fusion is pretty good, although the gameplay is a bit more linear and you'll be directed to most of the power-ups in the early-game.

Zero Mission is also really good; I tried to play the original Metroid on 3DS but its age is starting show, so Zero Mission is much better.

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:I even liked Other M. Not as much as the other games, but it's still pretty good. The endgame was the best part -- searching the whole game map for whatever collectibles you missed. Hard mode was also a lot of fun.


It had OK gameplay, I'll give it that.

I didn't know Sakamoto wasn't involved in the Prime series. Oh well. If whoever directs next manages to live down Other M I'll be happy.
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Postby MarioAyanami128 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:00 am

View Original PostDataprime wrote:As would I but considering how poorly Other M sold, I doubt we see a new
game in the series for quite a some time.


I'm not sure about that. I believe it is very likely that we won't be seeing a Metroid in that style for a while, but a Metroid game will be coming just around the corner. The last Directs and Reggie's appearance in that awful VGX are pointing to a reveal at E3.

On a side note, where did you find that beautiful pic of Misato?
The Eva-Zelda relations are way stronger than you can ever imagine.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:07 am

^Of course there's loads of speculah, but one Metroid pin on Reggie's lapel does not a full release make. Remember Metroid Dread?

If there was a Metroid reveal at E3, I would be excited though. Assuming the first act of the game involves the Adam computer falling into an asteroid belt
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Postby TehDonutKing » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:47 pm

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:I even liked Other M. Not as much as the other games, but it's still pretty good. The endgame was the best part -- searching the whole game map for whatever collectibles you missed. Hard mode was also a lot of fun.

Metroid M has a special kind of hatred. The gameplay, graphics, sound, controls, etc. are all almost universally praised. So, why is it hated?

It's the writing. Samus and Adam, both interesting characters were turned into 2-dimensional walking archetypes and the whole script had subtle misogynist overtones, which were more likely a sign of poor writing, rather than actual sexism. I really hope they pull a Ghost Babel and release another game that retells the same basic story with a much better script. The premise showed a lot of promise. It's similar to the damnable Sonic '06 in that regard, although 06's failings were in different areas.

This is interesting however. Most people will say the most important aspect of a game is the gameplay. If the gameplay is good enough, people will overlook certain smaller flaws. Of course, story can be this way for some. Remember Fragile Dreams: Farewell Ruins of the Moon, a game panned by critics, but with a devoted player base? That shows that games can stand on story and atmosphere. However, gameplay is what people are least likely to overlook flaws in. Hell, games don't even need a story! Just look at Tetris!

In spite of all this, Other M is hated for what many would consider flavor text. This is because we already knew who Samus was. She was a badass bounty hunter and strong, independent Chozo-raised woman who don't need no man. Other M derailed her character. Throughout the series, especially in the expanded universe, Adam was an unseen mentor whom Samus had great respect for. Here, he's a chauvinistic prick.
Secondly, mayhaps more people are caring about artistic integrity of games? Hopefully, people will soon examine games with the same meticulous scrutiny they would give to film and literature.

tl;dr, here's a seven minute video that says all i said and more, and is much more eloquent.
Extra Credits video lol
/hj

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Postby NemZ » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:57 pm

I thought the gameplay was somewhat clunky as well to be honest. Jumping back and forth between 1st and 3rd person (and having to do it with wiimote gestures) to shoot missiles was extremely annoying, and the combat just didn't feel well suited to a 3d environment due to the lack of good sweaping, area effect type attacks. 3d shooting in 3rd person always kinda sucks in general.
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Postby delispin25 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:00 pm

I remember getting Metroid Zero Mission for my birthday some years ago and being completely sucked in. I never put it down and remember my mother getting angry at me because I would walk into things around the house while playing Zero Mission. After I beat it, I begged my mother to get me Fusion, and damn, that game blew my fucking balls off. I was totally obsessed with this game, I did nothing else but play it. I got stuck on Ridley and just couldn't beat that asshole for the longest time, but after much frustration, I killed him and finished the game. Samus X also scared the piss out of me, the fight was quite a bitch too. Sadly, I lent both of those games to a friend that moved while he still had them in his possession. Oh well, hope he enjoyed them.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:05 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:I thought the gameplay was somewhat clunky as well to be honest. Jumping back and forth between 1st and 3rd person (and having to do it with wiimote gestures) to shoot missiles was extremely annoying, and the combat just didn't feel well suited to a 3d environment due to the lack of good sweaping, area effect type attacks. 3d shooting in 3rd person always kinda sucks in general.


Yeah, the game would have benefited a lot from at least allowing you to fire Missiles in normal-visor-mode instead of when stationary. Instead you're forced to become temporarily vulnerable to non-projectile attacks and waggle desperately for the enemy's weak point long enough for Samus to lock on and fire a Missile at the thing (Missiles and Super Missiles are now also disproportionately powerful compared to previous games as a result). Not to mention the parts when you oet trapped in first-person mode and had to lock onto something in order to advance the story, and the oft-mentioned little speck of green blood that was the focus of one those segments...Really, now that I think about it there was no real reason at all to make the game a combo of first-person and third-person; it would have been better to make it entirely first-person or third person, or just 2D.
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Postby NemZ » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:23 am

Oh man, I forgot about those clue finding sections. Those were just terrible.
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Postby Monk Ed » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:38 am

Luckily they're only terrible once.

That's probably why they're so easy to forget.

I disagree with the narrative many people have that the game was or at least came off misogynistic. Okay, obviously I can't disagree with people if something came off as misogynistic to them, but I feel like all the analyses I've seen which paint that picture are loaded with confirmation bias.

Now's not the time for me to go through the details but I suspect I'll find the time for it soon.
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"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:06 pm

^It is true that at times Samus does show sparks of independence, strength and overall badass-itude. Examples include activating the Screw Attack and Space Jump Boots against Adam's orders; the opening cutscene; the Ridley fight if you just cut out the bit of her freezing up; fighting most minibosses and the last segment of the game when you've got all the power-ups and don't have to follow Adam's orders.

I also thought that the game wasn't so much misogynistic as just extremely misguided in developing Samus's relationship with Adam, as well as the way some of Samus's past and present traumas were displayed. Team Ninja's penchant for the female form just sealed the coffin, basically. Some people can accept the relationship between Anthony and Samus more easily because it's shown that he respects her while also having some affection for her (he also has some badass moments with his plasma cannon), whereas for most of the game Adam is portrayed as the Voice-with-an-Internet-connection who won't let you use your heat-resistant armor in the superheated lava area. As such he appears much more distant and uncaring towards Samus, and thus it's harder for the player to understand why Samus would have such admiration for such a douchebag. An example of this is the Ridley ambush, in which Anthony is actually shown trying to help Samus by shooting Ridley, whereas Adam's help amounts to yelling at Samus to use her Plasma Beam repeatedly even when she's clearly in the middle of a PTSD attack.

Ironically in Fusion a computer asks Samus whether Adam would just 'sit in a safe Command Room and order[her] to die', which pretty much sums up Adam's role in Other M. It's not so much about gender roles as just poor use of a major character.

I could go into why there's such a negative reaction for Samus's character too, but most of the points have been made elsewhere so I'll cut short for now.
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Postby NemZ » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:07 pm

It's not at all hard to understand where the claims of misogyny come from. You take a previously established badass loner, sexy her up while giving her psychological weaknesses, make her subservient to a distant male authority even when it makes no damn sense, then build the whole narrative around a twisted view of motherhood. How do you NOT read some issues with women into that?
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:16 am

^True. Well, as TV Tropes points out, it makes more sense if you read the prequel manga, but that was only ever released in Japan. Even then the manga was all about Samus overcoming the problems that she somehow suddenly redevelops in Other M.

The theme of motherhood certainly wasn't handled very well either. It certainly doesn't help that when Samus seems like she's finally going to get over her obsession with the Baby and attack an Infant Metroid that appears before her, Adam swoops in and saves her...by shooting her and stripping her off her armor, before doing his big sacrifice moment.
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Postby Dataprime » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:25 am

Well E3 came and went with no new Metroid announced, but I have some rather exciting news to share.
Starting June 19th (in Japan) 'Metroid: Zero Mission' will be available on the Wii U virtual console!
We should expect release dates for other regions soon.

I'll leave you with Bayonetta in Samus' Varia Suit
Image
^ This is an alternate costume for her in Bayonetta 1 +2
on Wii U.


See You Next Mission!

I genuinely love how good Evangelion hurts
- Suicidahlia

She's so cute. Like crazy cute. Like "She's giving me the diabetus" cute. - Gendo'sPapa


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