A Question on Gender

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AcesHigh [ANF]
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Postby AcesHigh [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:22 am

I understand why some of the Evas are referred to as "she" by some members of this forum, but what about Adam? The Eva Series? Is this just an arbitrary nomination, or something else?

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 02:30 GMT

Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:22 am

AcesHigh wrote:I understand why some of the Evas are referred to as "she" by some members of this forum, but what about Adam? The Eva Series? Is this just an arbitrary nomination, or something else?


It's based on various hints in the dialogue, and visual clues. It's definitely not random, but it's something you have to work out, rather than something you actually get directly told. There was another thread about this a few days ago. You may wish to look for it. It's probably still on the first page.

There are a good number of fans who don't agree with the conclusions drawn from the various clues contained in the anime, but I have never found their arguments convincing in the slightest. Remember that the name "Adam" was probably just given to her by humans. We will never know what her real name is.

If you actually want someone to go into detail on what the clues are, then I can do that for you, but Reichu would most certainly do the job better. She was the primary advocate of these theories, although I consider myself to have been instrumental in noting the significance of one particular clue.

NOTE: The term "the Eva Series" encompasses all the Evangelions. What you mean is the Mass Production Evangelions, also called (by fans) the Harpies, due to their resemblance to this mythological creature.

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 02:38 GMT

Leader Desslock [ANF]
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Postby Leader Desslock [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:22 am

AcesHigh wrote:I understand why some of the Evas are referred to as "she" by some members of this forum...Is this just an arbitrary nomination, or something else?

Not many people are aware that Rumiko Takahashi was a staff writer during the production of the anime series. You'll notice that the feminine pronoun is most used after sudden rainstorms, or after an EVA unit walks down the alleyway containing the little old dipper woman.

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 02:42 GMT

AcesHigh [ANF]
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Postby AcesHigh [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:22 am

Boy is my face red. There the topic was a couple of posts down.

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 02:43 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:22 am

There is this thread, right on the first page...
http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=186241

But it did turn into a cesspool of @$$holery, so you probably do want to just stay the hell away from it. Image Unless it's already too late.

This topic has worn away at my nerves for a good, long while. There is a lot of evidence, in-series, that identifies Adam, the Evas, and Lilith as not only "feminine", but outright female. Most people accept this premise, but there are a handful who don't and will be sure to express their views on the matter, too, just to piss me off. :wink: Or, uh, just because they don't agree, even though IMO the SoL/Eva Sex bit is as elementary as the Yui-Rei connection. Honestly.

But, no, it's not arbitrary at all. All you have to do is take what the series feeds us, the audience, at face value -- that is, you take it for precisely what it is unless the show gives you reason to do otherwise. (An example of this is the Adam-Lilith scandal.) Ergo, if a character refers to one of these entities as "mother", you shouldn't just brush this off, unless you plan on brushing off other bits of evidence similarly just because they can be interpreted in a "less literal" manner. Similarly, if any of these entities are specifically referred to as "she" (which, I might add, is very rarely done in Japanese -- and, in NGE, they do this twice with the Evas), you aren't supposed to brush this off, either. Brushing these hints off = Very Bad. And this is what OMF & Others do, which is why I cannot give their arguments the time of day -- because they can't even play by the rules of NGE itself, unless it satisfies their own whims.

In any case, my psyche has been eroded away by the last awful thread on this debate, even though I know the evidence like the back of my hand. (And that other thread doesn't even scratch the surface, really.) I might as well put together a page for FGC (see sig) laying it all out, even if in a rough and no-pictures manner. Hope you don't mind waiting.

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 02:43 GMT

Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:22 am

Leader Desslock wrote:Not many people are aware that Rumiko Takahashi was a staff writer during the production of the anime series. You'll notice that the feminine pronoun is most used after sudden rainstorms, or after an EVA unit walks down the alleyway containing the little old dipper woman.


Image Image Image

Not for the first time, and not for the last... Leader Desslock for the win!

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 02:50 GMT

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Postby MagicianCamille [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:22 am

Reichu wrote:There is this thread, right on the first page...
http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=186241

But it did turn into a cesspool of @$$holery, so you probably do want to just stay the hell away from it. Image Unless it's already too late.


I extinguished the flames though.

Did I get any recognition for it? No. It's okay though, I know Rachel doesn't know how to show gratitude.

As for the topic: Most people here tend to refer to them as females. I don't. But what I say doesn't matter because I'm not much of an analyst. Which is why 1% of the people in the Eva forum read my posts instead of skipping ahead. One of these days I should just make a post with size 7 point. That'll show 'em.

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 03:07 GMT

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Postby drgenestarwind [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:22 am

dosent it matter that the Evas contain the soul of a mother ?

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:04 GMT

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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:22 am

Not really, only two of the Eva's even have been confirmed to have souls of mother's Unit-00 has Rei's soul (don't ask me how it works). And all the units -03 on up do have souls its just never said who's souls they are.

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:10 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:22 am

EVA-04 never got to the point where she would have gotten a soul, actually. Unless there is something critical that I missed.

EVA-03 had the soul of Toji's mom. They talked about preparing a core for a certain eligible candidate, after all...

I've started writing that rundown, BTW. But, like I said -- don't hold your breath, Aces. Good things take at least a little while.

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:34 GMT

MagicianCamille [ANF]
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Postby MagicianCamille [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:22 am

Reichu wrote:EVA-04 never got to the point where she would have gotten a soul, actually. Unless there is something critical that I missed.


Why is it a she if it doesn't have a female's soul?

EVA-03 had the soul of Toji's mom. They talked about preparing a core for a certain eligible candidate, after all...


That doesn't neccessarily mean they put the soul of Touji's mom in the core.

EDIT: I just referred to a soul as a female soul. Which sounds fairly stupid, so I'll just put female's*. Image

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:37 GMT

Seele08 [ANF]
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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:23 am

Its highly likely it would be Toji's mom otherwise he probably wouldn't have been picked.
@ Reichu, do you know why Shinji can synche with unit-00, who is not his mom...

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:40 GMT

Sharp-kun [ANF]
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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:23 am

Robots don't have gender. Image Image

Leader Desslock wrote:Not many people are aware that Rumiko Takahashi was a staff writer during the production of the anime series. You'll notice that the feminine pronoun is most used after sudden rainstorms, or after an EVA unit walks down the alleyway containing the little old dipper woman.

XD

Reichu wrote:EVA-04 never got to the point where she would have gotten a soul, actually. Unless there is something critical that I missed.

There's the possibility that NERV in the US might have stuck one in, but its never stated and given that it wasn't quite finished its best to go with the assumption that it never had one. Thats supported by the fact that a pilot hadn't been chosen, and by extension neither could a soul.

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:40 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:23 am

MagicianCamille wrote:Why is it a she if it doesn't have a female's soul?


Because Evas have o-va-ries.

That doesn't neccessarily mean they put the soul of Touji's mom in the core.


If you "prepare" a core for a specific pilot, that implies that you put somebody in there that (s)he can synchronize with. Ergo... Anno says, "Use your brain. I hate spoonfeeding you morons!"

Seele08 wrote:@ Reichu, do you know why Shinji can synche with unit-00, who is not his mom...


Ehhh, I'll revisit that one later...

Sharp-kun wrote:Robots don't have gender. Image Image


:snork: Yes, yes. And robots bleed, too. Yes, I know, dear. Image

But I agree. EVA-03 wasn't given a soul until a pilot was chosen, so presumably they wouldn't have done differently with Yon.

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:45 GMT

Sharp-kun [ANF]
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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:23 am

"Exam in 3 hours, procrastinate heeheehee"

Seele08 wrote:@ Reichu, do you know why Shinji can synche with unit-00, who is not his mom...

00 contains the soul of Rei-1, which is the soul of Lilith. It's the soul of the "mother of humanity" thats been inside a clone of Yui. I'd guess that's close enough.
Rei manages it as she's in effect synching with herself.

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:45 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:23 am

Well... Check out my "Biology of Souls" thread sometime. I'm going to revisit the synchronization crap one of these days just in case we've been babbling nonsense all this time. We have been babbling nonsense about an awful lot of things... @_@

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:47 GMT

Sharp-kun [ANF]
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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:23 am

Reichu wrote::snork: Yes, yes. And robots bleed, too. Yes, I know, dear. Image

Indeed they do

Image

Image

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:50 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:23 am

Hey, what anime is that, anyway? I can use it for the relevant interchange in FGC/#02...

There are "bleeding" robots in MGS2, as well. Except those are a lot cooler-looking. (For the organically-biased, anyway.)

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:52 GMT

MagicianCamille [ANF]
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Postby MagicianCamille [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:23 am

If you "prepare" a core for a specific pilot, that implies that you put somebody in there that (s)he can synchronize with.


Pilots can only synchronize with their mother's souls?

Ergo... Anno says, "Use your brain. I hate spoonfeeding you morons!"


This is why nobody loves you.

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:52 GMT

Sharp-kun [ANF]
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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Sun May 17, 2009 2:23 am

Reichu wrote:Hey, what anime is that, anyway? I can use it for the relevant interchange in FGC/#02...

Mazinkaiser: Death! The Great General of Darkness.

The mech itself is Great Mazinger, from the 1974 TV series of the same name.

Originally posted on: 17-Jan-2006, 04:53 GMT


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