[LAEM] Can we accept an American Evangelion?

The place for all of the old Live Action Evangelion Movie threads.
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Postby chee » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:38 pm

The last suitmation film (that i've seen) that didn't look like shit was GMK, and even that had some pretty cringe-worthy moments. Also, Toho CG has a tendency to fail.

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Postby Guyver Spawn » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:45 pm

What about Toei since they do fine with series like Kamen Rider and Metal Heroes. I rather have Toei or Toho then some studio like Fox or Liongate.
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Postby chee » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:00 pm

Guyver Spawn wrote:What about Toei since they do fine with series like Kamen Rider and Metal Heroes..


Haven't seen them, can't comment on them.

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Postby PuppetChaos » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:12 pm

I think something people sometimes lose sight of in these sorts of discussions is that a motion picture with CG and bells and whistles is absurdly expensive (well, duh..), and a studio naturally wants a return on their investment, which is perfectly natural since getting no returns on investments means you're out of a job pretty quick.

Here's the kicker, with things like Evangelion, the fanbase for it is probably not large enough to make it worth making a 100% loyal adaptation that'll probably scare off other moviegoers... so the question becomes: "How do we adapt this in such a way that most people who are into sci-fi type movies will want to see this?"

An example is the recent Transformers film. I've run into fans who wanted them to have Optimus Prime be a giant box with no mouth (and for every transformer to look exactly like the ones in the old cartoons), Megatron to turn into a hand-held sized gun, and for all the music to be 80's power ballads with lyrics like: "We're all under the eyes of the evil Unicron"

Which wouldn't sell outside of that small demographic. Now you can argue over whether or not it was a decent film or not (I personally liked it in a 'turn your brain off and just watch the robots' kinda way), but it was a financial success; and they're making a sequel with a bigger budget, and presumably closer to what the original fanbase wants. I'm not defending every change Hollywood has made to every adaptation ever (and the Wetavangelion stuff makes me cringe for the most part, although the Tokyo 3 and NERV base designs are the sex), but you gotta understand, at the very least, why they make these changes.

Basically: How many changes from the original Evangelion would you be willing to tolerate? Because there will have to be changes made if it's a full budget special-effects laden film. Also, some things work in animation, but simply fail in liveaction. Besides, do you really want to see a carbon-copy version of the series, except it's real people and CG Evas?

Also... guys in suits would make most potential viewers go: "Power Rangers. Hell no.", and there goes your return investment. A good compromise would be using CG with motion capture, though. That stuff gets pretty good results if done right (Gollum, the new King Kong).

EDIT: I forgot to mention that my own personal tolerance for changes from the original is probably much higher than the average Eva fan. Although the Kate Rose/Ray Whatersface name changes Weta was considering in their proposal... er... no.

Also, the thought of Robin Williams as Gendo makes me laugh. It's one of those perverse things that I want to happen yet don't.
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Postby The Invincible Shinji » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:35 pm

Evangelion can be a great movie, they just need people with brains who care about makeing a great movie, though with dragonball evolution sucking,(that's what i heard anyway) i'm worried about Eva.
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Postby Guyver Spawn » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:56 pm

Seeing that Eva is a anime and I doubt most studios would direct a movie of it since they might think it a waste of time to. I doubt any american directors will be take the offer to direct the eva series into a movie which I think some studios like Toei would be a choice.
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Postby THE Hal E. Burton 9000 » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:00 pm

I think it is possible that a live action, 'Merican Eva could not totally suck

it just needs the right people who "get it", like Anno-sensei or even a respected Eva expert like Reichuy as a creative advisors/consultants could do 'Merican Eva a world of good
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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:17 pm

dude-in-rubber-suit = awesome

Although I'd love to see a more high-budget approach. I really don't care what they do to it as long as I get to see giants with emo kids inside beating the shit out of eachother.

Mexican Shinji would be hilarious.

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Postby Alaska Slim » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:53 am

Guyver Spawn wrote:Should we let American stuidos direct a EVA movie

In 2006 GAINAX and WETA Workshop signed a contract to produce an Eva trilogy. So first of all, its making has already been decided, second, Weta itself is based in New Zealand, an American studio might be the one to get behind them and assert some creative control, but they are not the ones making it, or "directing it" for that matter.

PuppetChaos wrote:Here's the kicker, with things like Evangelion, the fanbase for it is probably not large enough to make it worth making a 100% loyal adaptation

100% is not feasible anyway, as the Speed Racer film demonstrated, some things are best left to animation, however, an Eva that respects the original work is possible, and WETA themselves have stated their intention to make it so.

PuppetChaos wrote:EDIT: I forgot to mention that my own personal tolerance for changes from the original is probably much higher than the average Eva fan. Although the Kate Rose/Ray Whatersface name changes Weta was considering in their proposal... er... no.

They recanted those images several years ago, and since Hideaki Anno is willing to trust them on this, for the moment, so am I.

Guyver Spawn wrote: I doubt any american directors will be take the offer to direct the eva series into a movie which I think some studios like Toei would be a choice.

Although it's been stated the people at ADV are not to be trusted when it comes to the interpretation of the series, for the life of me, I do not see why they would lie about developments on the live action project. And according to them, several directors have shown interest, including Peter Jackson himself which he expressed personally during an interview for King Kong.

THE Hal E. Burton 9000 wrote:it just needs the right people who "get it", like Anno-sensei

It was stated as a possibility that Hideaki Anno would come on board as an advisor (he's also seem to have become quite chummy with WETA's Richard Taylor over them both having an interest in trains).
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Postby Reichu » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:17 am

Alaska Slim wrote:In 2006 GAINAX and WETA Workshop signed a contract to produce an Eva trilogy.

Funniest thing about this is that Anno resigned from Gainax in 2007.
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Postby Alaska Slim » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:47 am

It was said Mr. Anno signed the contract himself as well, so I would still contend he has confidence in it.
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Postby master_lloyd » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:42 am

PuppetChaos wrote:and for all the music to be 80's power ballads with lyrics like: "We're all under the eyes of the evil Unicron"


To be fair that is an awesome song, and a little remixing/re-recording wouldn't have hurt. A version of the Transformers theme tune by Mute Math (me neither!) was put in the Soundtrack but it wasn't very good, and was not used in the film.

Other than that I agree with you.
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Postby PuppetChaos » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:51 am

Alaska Slim wrote:...however, an Eva that respects the original work is possible, and WETA themselves have stated their intention to make it so.

...
They recanted those images several years ago, and since Hideaki Anno is willing to trust them on this, for the moment, so am I.


Oh yeah, I'm all for an Eva film that respects the original series, I was just saying that I'm not the type to get my panties in a pinch over certain changes in details.

Also, they 'took back' the character images? I heard that, but I wasn't sure.... thanks for the info.

master_lloyd wrote:To be fair that is an awesome song, and a little remixing/re-recording wouldn't have hurt. A version of the Transformers theme tune by Mute Math (me neither!) was put in the Soundtrack but it wasn't very good, and was not used in the film.


I loved the 80's rock Transformers theme, but I was just saying that I'm not sure it'd appeal to the mass audience of today.

I actually kinda like the Mutemath version, but I already liked Mutemath before that (and their previous incarnation, Earthsuit)
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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:59 pm

i think a fully American helmed Eva would be awful, it needs Anno's full input. the fanbase is limited though, Watchmen being my favorite example.

instead of live-action, what about a full CGI-fest like Advent Children, they could do some pretty cool stuff with that.
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Postby NAveryW » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:01 pm

xtr00kvltcorex wrote:instead of live-action, what about a full CGI-fest like Advent Children, they could do some pretty cool stuff with that.
That'd be pretty pointless IMO. If you're still getting animation, just watch the animation we already have. It has lots of CGI anyway.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:14 am

Like someone else said here on the topic, a Live Action Hollywood Evangelion would be anything BUT the Eva we've come to love.

Doing one of these films live action proper would require a budget near $200 million.

And after the most recent "true to the source material geek film" WATCHMEN didn't meet expectations (it performed very well for a non-franchise R rated film but for it's budget and the hype it generated, it's underperformed dramatically) you won't be seeing too many authentic big budget movies lately.

It doesn't help the two BIG DEAL Anime Adaptations- Speed Racer & Dragonball:Evolution- flopped immensely. It doesn't matter DBE wasn't truthful to the anime at all (to be fair, DBE and DBZ are equally stupid and immature, but one was fun while being so), right now anime does not look like a top money drawer.

But no, I'd prefer not to see a Hollywood Eva. I have no doubt it's a film that would LOOK great, SOUND great, and FOOL ME with $200 million worth of effects that it is great. But I doubt it would be.

Especially not if it's released in the summer and the first one exists to HOPEFULLY GREENLIGHT THE SEQUELS.

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Postby Alaska Slim » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:56 am

Gendo'sPapa wrote:Doing one of these films live action proper would require a budget near $200 million.

None of the LOTR films had $200 million, and what do you know, WETA earned academy awards for their work.

Gendo'sPapa wrote:"true to the source material geek film" WATCHMEN didn't meet expectations (it performed very well for a non-franchise R rated film but for it's budget and the hype it generated, it's underperformed dramatically) you won't be seeing too many authentic big budget movies lately.

Irrelevant, WETA has performed well repeatedly when they've been given creative control, if an outside force somehow gains a cut into that control, they will have little incentive to use it and meddle with the work of people whom they know are a money-making formula.

LOTR is the #3 top grossing film franchise in the World, and King Kong while at one point the most expensive film ever made, was also among the top 5 most grossing films to ever come out of Universal Pictures.

Gendo'sPapa wrote:I have no doubt it's a film that would LOOK great, SOUND great, and FOOL ME with $200 million worth of effects that it is great. But I doubt it would actually BE great.

fixed.

Gendo'sPapa wrote:Especially not if it's released in the summer and the first one exists to HOPEFULLY GREENLIGHT THE SEQUELS.

Star Wars Episode IV did this, so I don’t see your point. :uhh:
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Postby backseatjesus » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:29 pm

I think the biggest worry is who writes and directs the film. There are obviously people out there who can play the characters, whether found or not. We have the technology for the EVAs and Angels(Which CGI can be perfect if it's not overused). We have the material for the costumes. The only thing we haven't found yet is someone with the balls to take on this project.

This may sound kind of stupid, but I've been thinking for the last year that I want to be a director, or at least a writer. The more I got into evangelion, the more I wanted to directed a film for it. I have no experience personally, but by the time this even remotely gets setup to be made, I'd probably have a couple of completed projects under my belt.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:52 pm

A. Anyone looking at Star Wars for deep filmmaking is a joke. Lucas used the Episode 4 moniker as a way to harken to the serials. When he made the first film he didn't particularly have ambitions to make Star Wars his life work. It's only after it broke records that Star Wars became "A 12 Film Saga!....Actually, it's just 9 films. Scratch that make that 6. Oh let's make it up as we go along."
Besides, the Star Wars argument is a moot issue since you've brought up a 32 year old film. The world of big budget filmmaking today has no relation to that era whatsoever.

B. WETA is an effects house first and foremost. Peter Jackson spearheaded Lord of the Rings and King Kong. Not WETA. WETA made "Black Sheep" if you're looking for their artistic ambitions.

C. Budgets have skyrocketed since Lord of the Rings was made. LOTR was kept cheap (reasonably) because all the films were made as 1 single production, so everyone from director down to caterer was only paid for once drastically cutting down on production. WETA was a cheap production company then, now they charge nearly as much as ILM for their expertise and despite what Richard Taylor says, he can't convince all his subordinates to take a sharp pay cut to work on a film for 2 years that only he has a driving passion to do. Everyone in WETA has mortgages to pay.
When LOTR was done a $100 million budget was still a reasonably big deal. That was an era when TITANIC and it's $200 million budget was the greatest risk in cinema history. Now, a little over a decade later a $100 million budget is a small one for your summer blockbuster. MONSTERS VS ALIENS cost $175 million. STAR TREK costs $150 million, TERMINATOR 4 is looking at $175 million (and that had to go PG-13 in an R rated franchise to calm studios), Pixar's UP is looking at a budget north of $130 million. TRANSFORMERS 2 is the economy of Africa. And AVATAR is....well, they say $250 million but that means it's more like $350 million. And that's not including marketing which should tack on close to another $100 million. Hell, even DRAGONBALL: EVOLUTION is rumored to have cost near $100 million. Not a cheapie.
The era of big budget filmmaking is not about recovering production costs in the movie theater (So few films do. DARK KNIGHT did which is why ALMOST every superhero film starting production now- outside of X-men- is going to be dark and gritty). Instead the focus is on ancillary markets like the DVD. The Blu-Ray. The clothes and toys.

For some reason, a live action Evangelion that did justice to the TV series might sell well but nowhere near on the scale of say a INDY 4 or an Iron Man. It'd be too dark.

Live action Eva would be an expensive EXPENSIVE ordeal (to visually do right) and all I'm saying is the higher you're budgets go the more concessions you have to make to please your financial backers. Sometimes you get a surprise film that sneaks in (a.la. Dark Knight) but guess what, that's a successful American based NAME BRAND. It's the new BATMAN film.

Live Action Eva could be a good sci-fi action series but it won't be EVANGELION.

It's Moot now- happy?
Last edited by Gendo'sPapa on Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby ZapX » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:57 pm

Ok guys, this has been bugging me for a while.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mute

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moot
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