How and when was Rei created ?

[DatDude]

Continuted yet again from another thread that got of track.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

A selection of quotes from the other thread for us to ponder over. Does anyone have any other good quotes concerning Rei's genesis?

Both from eps 23.

Fuyutsuki : Rei...
Fuyutsuki : The product of my despair, and yet the object of your hope.
Fuyutsuki : I guess it's impossible to forget her.

Ritsuko: Yes, that's a human.
Eva, which did not have a soul ab initio,
now that has a human soul.
All of these are salvaged.
However the vessel which truly contains a soul is Rei.
Only she has a soul.
None of the other vessels have a soul.

I think the why of Rei's creation may be as revealing as the how and when though.

[Reichu]

Why? To be able to control and exert influence over Lilith's soul with ease so that she'll give control of Instrumentality to Gendo.

There are about a gazillion threads about this subject over at AnimeNation. Probably not much that can be said on the matter that hasn't already been said before.

Surely there must have been at least one preexisting "Rei's creation" thread here, as well...

[ice reaper]

Rei's just what came out of unit- 01 when they tried to salvage yui, but with the soul of something put in it.......isn't she?

[Reichu]

Rei's just what came out of unit- 01 when they tried to salvage yui, but with the soul of something put in it.......isn't she?

Rei clearly couldn't have resulted from any attempts to reform Yui out of the LCL, because Rei isn't made from the same stuff as we mortal creatures.

[AchtungAffen]

Well, the EOE program said her body was made from the remains of Yui after she was put in Eva-01.

[Reichu]

Well, the EOE program said her body was made from the remains of Yui after she was put in Eva-01.

If the show itself denies what's in the theatrical program, guess which one is right?

[Dave]

If the show itself denies what's in the theatrical program, guess which one is right?

Where exactly does the show deny the fact that Rei's body came from Yui's? Do you think she just HAPPENS to look almost identical to Yui for no reason at all?

[thewayneiac]

If the show itself denies what's in the theatrical program, guess which one is right?

Where exactly does the show deny the fact that Rei's body came from Yui's? Do you think she just HAPPENS to look almost identical to Yui for no reason at all?

No, she must have a good deal of Yui DNA, but the argument that she is more Lilith than Yui is valid. It goes something like this:

1. When Ritsuko destroys the Rei clones, instead of just dying or turning into LCL, the clones fall apart.

2. When Rei's A.T. Field starts to fail in EOE, instead of disolving, Rei begins to fall apart, losing her arm.

3. When Lilith's body dies at the end of the movie (presumably because Rei exits leaving no measure of their soul behind) it falls apart.

I think we are supposed to draw the conclusion that Rei and Lilith share something in their nature that makes them fall to pieces upon death.

[Reichu]

More here.

http://animenation.net/forums/showthrea ... ght=nature

I would fix the broken image links, but not an easy task, considering AN now just allows a mere four embedded images per post. :x

[Phaze]

Apparently MDWigs is also leaning in the direction of Rei being a "by-product."

Here's my interpretation with respect to Rei’s creation. I still believe that Rei having Lilith's soul was an accident that came about as a result of the salvage attempt. I think they were attempting to retrieve Yui, that she didn't want to come, and that what they got was Yui's form, with Lilith's soul (due to the fact that Eva-01 and Lilith were still connected at that point). I think that first and foremost Gendou was trying to get Yui back. He didn't though, he got something different. I think he then went about making this "by-product" useful, in which case Rei as we know her was created. The salvage experience couldn't have taken place in the room where Rei was "born", there simply isn't enough room. I don't think Eva-01/Lilith was moved, I think that the salvage experiment took place where they were (and only later were they severed, separated and moved). So this means the specific creation of "Rei" was a secondary step. To turn the "by-product" of the failed salvage attempt into what we know as "Rei" and also cloning multiple times to produce backups.

[Reichu]

I've disagreed with MDWigs on that one for a long time.

IMO, we're dealing with a lot of red herrings here. The fact that Sho and Lilith are connected at the time is one. The little legs Lilith sprouts afterwards is another.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Rei's age is the stickler in this argument. If she was created after Yui's accident, then that would make her 11 as the final events of the drama unfold in Toyko-3. That's pushing it. Note also this comment from Touji, in eps 05
Toji: Now that you mention it, she hasn't made any friends since she came to this school in the first grade.
Now I take it this is a post primary school, and I guess that Shinji's class is the third grade, which would make Rei 9 when she first arrived at 707. That's pushing it, a LOT.

There is nothing in the text that would preclude Rei's creation prior to Yui's accident. Her age in paticular indicates this. It could well be that Yui even knew she existed. It seems unlikely that such an integral part of Gendou's carefully scripted plan as Rei could have been the result of mere accident. If she was, then was Gendou making it up as he went along.

I do have one, tiny, ambiguous, piece of evidence of Rei's pre 2004 creation. It's in Shinji's dream sequence in episode 20

Shinji: Yes. Father didn't need me. Father deserted me.
Rei: Am I his substitute?
Shinji: Definitely. That must be it! I was deserted because he
had Ayanami.
Chibi-Rei: As if you didn't run away of your own accord.

Directly after Shinji's declaration of the reason for his desertion, Rei suddenly changes to to a child. The image is monochrome, like many of Shinji's past memories, and she wears exactly the same dress the wears as a child in episode 21. Is it possible that not only was Rei created before Yui's accident, but that Shinji was aware of her at this time, possibly even aware of Gendou's fondness for her? Heavily speculative, but what isn't in this thread?

[Reichu]

OMF, Rei was created around 2005. This is fact. In the script, Rei is referred to as being five years old when Naoko sees her for the first time in 2010.

That she looks fourteen in 2015 can be accounted for by developmental acceleration. She is hardly a product of nature, after all.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

I suppose you could put it down to accellerated growth, but then why would she be five after five years, and the 14 after 11 years? Also consider this one from episode 5:
Ritsuko: Ayanami Rei, 14 years old. 'First Children,' the first
testee found by Marduk Report. The exclusive pilot of Evangelion
Prototype Unit Zero. Her personal history was started afresh. All
her records have been erased.

Now Ritsuko is privy to almost all of Gendou's secrets, so she'd surely know Rei's age. Maybe she's just lying to Misato.
If I wanted to throw something else into the pot,(and I do) I might mention that Rei's third incarnation looks a little more mature than her second. Or maybe she's just more depressed. Although that was a directors cut choice wasn't it?

The "when" aside, I don't think that Rei's creation was accidental. She seems to have been an integral part of Gendou's plans, especially with regard to third impact.

[Reichu]

OMF, I hope you are not contesting the fact that Rei IS, in fact, five years old in 2010...

It can be said that she is DEVELOPMENTALLY 14 in 2015. But there is no way that she can be chronologically 14.

As far as timing issues go, Rei 2 appears to not have appeared until 2014. There are some threads regarding the whole timing issue over at ANF, if you want me to look them up for you...

The "when" aside, I don't think that Rei's creation was accidental. She seems to have been an integral part of Gendou's plans, especially with regard to third impact.

I agree with you here. I am certainly of the opinion, as said before, that we are dealing with a number of red herrings with regards to Rei's creations. To my mind, this was ENTIRELY deliberate on Gendo's part, and all occured after the salvage operation failed and he had to accept the fact that he was not going to get Yui back the "easy way". The simplest solution is that all Rei were created together, with Yui's genetic structure imposed upon matter cultivated from Lilith...


(Yes, doujinshi scans. I paid far too much for it to just let it sit unused, though. ;) )

...with only one chosen to be the first receptacle of Lilith's soul: Rei 1. (Though I dunno if it would've been THIS early in her development, heh.)



After Rei 1's death, for unknown reasons another is not pulled out of the tank immediately. Instead, they are artificially aged to be the same developmental age as the other potential Children, and Rei 2 is brought out circa 2014, same year that Evas 00 and 01 are finally made "pilot-ready".

For Rei to be five in 2010, she must be created in 2005... In episode #21, this year is skipped entirely. The last we see is the scene from 2004 where Gendo announces his commitment to the HIP to Fuyutsuki...

...and, hmm, well, forget everything I just said. In my madness, I forgot about this:

Maya: Creating the outline of the salvage project in just one month. Only Senpai could do it.

Ritsuko: What a shame that I didn't create the original plan. These are
data which came from experiments done 10 years ago.

Maya: Did such an accident happen during the development of Eva?

Ritsuko: There was an accident before I joined Nerv. I heard that my
mother was there. I know about it only from the data.

Ten years ago... 2005... Well, there go all my ideas about the salvage operation occuring between Yui's 'accident' and Gendo announcing his plans to become God.

:wanders off, grumbling to herself:

[Mr. Tines]

...with only one chosen to be the first receptacle of Lilith's soul: Rei 1. (Though I dunno if it would've been THIS early in her development, heh.)

There are those who would argue that ensoulment would have happened much earlier; OTOH, ISTR reading that there are some traditions that place the arrival of the soul at the end of the first trimester.

[Reichu]

ISTR? Urban Dictionary doesn't even know what that one means!

I dunno if one can talk about the "natural arrival time" of a soul with regards to artificially-created entities... As we well know, creations like Rei can be around for 10 years and laughed themselves silly in their spiritual deprivation.

I had to figure out soul dynamics for my doujinshi, and things just happened to go the "pro-life" route... The moment of fertilization, a "spiritual vacuum" is formed within the new life that attracts any appropriate "vagrant soul" (i.e., one not currently inhabiting a body). Things get a little weird in the story because a lot of fertilization occurs in a place where no vagrant souls exist, and the eggs basically have to wait around in a state of perpetual suspension to receive a soul before they can continue growing. (Making it basically impossible for soulless children to be born naturally.)

[Mr. Tines]

ISTR? Urban Dictionary doesn't even know what that one means!

I Seem To Recall - used to be fairly standard Usenet jargon, back in the day, before the September that Never Ended (9/1993), so is possibly archaic in this day and age.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

What about the presence of the child Rei in Shinji's dream? Is it possible he saw her at some stage in the past? Gendou keeps Rei close, and note her (probable) presence at the graveyard scene. Maybe she was present during the graveyard scene three years earlier when Shinji ran away. The child Rei is talking about running away in the dream.

Idle speculation warning!