Evangelion and Personality Disorders.

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Compiling_Autumn
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Postby Compiling_Autumn » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:35 am

I don't really have a dog in the fight, but I tend to lean towards Bagheera's reasoning. That being said,


She doesn't envy anyone


I think she envies Misato, for being the grownup and having "won" Kaji's affections.
"The will to lose one's will?"
"Absolutely. The will to make oneself completely free. Will is the wrong word, because in the end you could call it despair. Because it really comes out of an absolute feeling of it's impossible to do these things, so I might as well just do anything. And out of this anything, one sees what happens."--Francis Bacon

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:20 am

View Original PostCompiling_Autumn wrote:I think she envies Misato, for being the grownup and having "won" Kaji's affections.


Heh. You caught me! That occurred to me shortly after posting, but I hoped no one would notice. -o-;

But you're right of course. Note, though, your qualifiers: she envies Misato due to her status as an adult and because Kaji likes her. That means it's nothing about Misato per se so much as the signifiers of her status -- Asuka wants X (where X is status and affection), Misato has X, so Asuka envies her. She's envy anyone else who had X, and I think that's a normal human reaction -- if you're poor you envy the rich, if you're fat and trying to slim down you envy people who are naturally thin, if you're dumb you envy smart people, if you're high strung you envy people who find it easy to relax. Wanting things you do not have does not make you a narcissist, nor guilty of the sort of envy that typifies the disorder (which I would characterize as "wanting things because other people have them, and not because they're things you actually want independent of whoever happens to have them at the time).

Another (crude) way to put it: when Asuka becomes an adult and starts getting laid on a regular basis this sort of envy will disappear. For people with NPD that generally isn't the case -- their envy is a part of their disorder, not something they will naturally grow out of as they reach adulthood.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby NemZ » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:35 am

Bags, I had to doubletake when you tried to explain that list was NOT describing Asuka because it sure as hell seemed to be doing so point for point when I read it.

Does it really matter though? Just say she's cluster B, Rei is A and Shinji is C. Beyond that it's just splitting hairs.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:16 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Bags, I had to doubletake when you tried to explain that list was NOT describing Asuka because it sure as hell seemed to be doing so point for point when I read it.


You've agreed in the past that histrionic was a better fit for her than narcissist, so I don't see why you're disagreeing now (particularly since I explained why each point didn't fit a few posts up). Asuka's an attention whore, not a megalomaniac.

(Amusingly, the biggest narcissist in NGE would probably be Gendo. Odd that no one's thought to explore that . . . )
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:37 pm

Yeah she only pretends to be a Megalomaniac because she's so insecure.
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Postby NemZ » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:33 pm

Eh... I don't know Bags. There's enough overlap between them that I don't think it really matters, and when one wears a mask so comfortably it's hard to tell where it stops and the 'real you' starts... much less convincing others which is which. At some point you have to admit that if someone acts a certain way then they are that way, no matter what rationalizations they might have to tell themselves it's all just for show.

I have NO idea what makes you think Gendo ticks off those traits though. He has a grand plan and the terrible will to see it happen, but it isn't self-aggrandizing in nature. Rather it's hollow and desperate, the actions of a man who feels he has nothing left to lose. I honestly wonder if there is anything so degrading he wouldn't do it if he thought it would advance his goal.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:14 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Eh... I don't know Bags. There's enough overlap between them that I don't think it really matters, and when one wears a mask so comfortably it's hard to tell where it stops and the 'real you' starts... much less convincing others which is which. At some point you have to admit that if someone acts a certain way then they are that way, no matter what rationalizations they might have to tell themselves it's all just for show.


I disagree. Nature and demeanor are valid concepts, and I think it's useful to draw a distinction between the two.

I have NO idea what makes you think Gendo ticks off those traits though. He has a grand plan and the terrible will to see it happen, but it isn't self-aggrandizing in nature. Rather it's hollow and desperate, the actions of a man who feels he has nothing left to lose. I honestly wonder if there is anything so degrading he wouldn't do it if he thought it would advance his goal.


That doesn't change how he treats other people, nor how he expects to be treated, nor the fact that he has zero empathy for ANYONE, nor the fact that he's obsessed with his goal and will do anything to achieve it, nor the fact that he's arrogant as hell, nor the fact that he's surrounded himself with people who will do whatever he wants (his treatment of the Akagis being a particularly egregious example), nor the fact that we've seen no indication of anything he's ever done to merit his position . . . really, the guy's narcissism personified. It never even occurs to him that Yui might have her own goals and not particularly need to be saved by him, to say nothing of the minor notion that sacrificing the world to get what he wants might not be the hottest idea. Again, forget about the conventional view of narcissism and look at what it really is: megalomania. That's Gendo top to bottom.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Chuckman » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:12 pm

Misplaced post remerged into the discussion - NemZ

Gendo isn't a narcissist chessmaster, he's a bumbling manchild that sits in his chair through a combination of nepotism and luck. He is where he is because Yui put him there, essentially, and Seele are a bunch of morons that think he's vastly more competent than he is when he is in fact just improbably fortunate when shit hits the fan. The one time he takes direct command of a battle he almost gets all the pilots killed, and Nerv is a shitshow with everyone spying on and fucking over everyone else. His master plan fails and he's killed by a beautiful woman whose affections he spurned because he has no agency without Yui.

Gendo is a clown. He's a commentary on the power structure of Japanese industry and society and illustrates how everyone doing what they're supposed to do leads to disaster.
The true artist helps the world by revealing mystic truths.

"there are cracks in this timeline, void bubbling through. please remember that no matter what happens LOVE IS REAL" -Dr. Chuck Tingle, Ph. D

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Postby NemZ » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:18 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:I disagree. Nature and demeanor are valid concepts, and I think it's useful to draw a distinction between the two.


Well, yes and no. It's one thing to 'wear different hats' and behave differently in different situations (say, with friends, or parents, or at work), and quite another to hide your true self from everyone, especially yourself, pretty much 24/7.

(gendo stuff)


The Gendo in my mind is apparently very different than the one in yours, man. He treats people in ways that are efficient and distant, and while that does come across as arrogant I really don't think it is... he simply has no time for bullshit or pleasantries and is utterly incapable of maintaining normal human relationships because he's so deeply broken. That's a big part of why he delegates everything, as he just isn't able to deal with people.

The people around Gendo question him all the time, and all he can every offer as an excuse (and a good one, luckily for him) is that the current crisis demands sacrifice. If there weren't angels knocking on the door he'd be utterly screwed when called to task for the shit he pulls.

The Agakis come to him, not the other way around. You can't lay that all on him, as they should have known the sort of mess they were volunteering for by pursuing him, much less trying to get between him and his goal. It's like they didn't understand him at all, which is unsurprising since he'd put no effort into undermining their illusions as long as they were useful.

Regarding Yui, he has no reason whatsoever to think her absorption was anything other than an accident. She obviously withheld her true goals from him and as utterly inhuman as you theorize them to be who could possibly blame him for not guessing at such? And don't forget that entire issue was invented for the movie... in the original ending there's no indication whatsoever that Yui was anything but the victim Gendo believed her to be, nor that she had some deeper goal.

Ultimately I don't think Gendo holds himself in high esteem at all. His station serves a purpose and he acts as necessary to maintain it, but he has no compunction with joining in on manual labor when the situation calls for it, has no pride or dignity to maintain when the akagis use him for their own needs, and probably would subject himself to any form of degradation if that's what it took to accomplish his goals. He doesn't do this because he's special... he does it because it's his only hope.

This is not megalomania. It's weaponized depression.

And despite all this I still admire the guy, because at his deepest, darkest core Gendo is somehow still a romantic idealist dreamer with an unbreakable will to save the person he loves, even knowing that in the process he's making himself something unworthy of her. He's the ultimate form of the Byronic tragic hero. Well... okay, maybe tied with Homura.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
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Postby Bagheera » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:42 am

The fact you can apologize so deeply for Gendo and yet feel the slightest bit of ire towards Asuka utterly baffles me. I mean, it truly, utterly baffles me. Because, no matter how you spin it, he knows exactly what the fuck he's doing and does it anyway, while she's a 13-year-old who doesn't have a fucking clue. It's just amazing, man.

But, fine. I know what it's like to use sympathy for a character as a shield against all reason and logic to the contrary, so I'll let it go. But that's a hell of a double standard you have there, chief.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby NemZ » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:10 am

I never said Gendo wasn't an asshole Bags, but I still like him as a charecter anyway. And I see WAY more of myself in him than I do in Asuka, including negatives that frankly I'm not regretful for having. Asuka is just as much a victim of circumstances as he is, but I just can't find anything about her that I like. Maybe it's not her fault, but it's still the way I feel.

Maybe what it boils down to is the fact that I feel everything Asuka does is ultimately about herself, while everything Gendo does is for someone else. I honestly do think Gendo would be satisfied with the attempt even if it meant being rejected utterly if it's successful, because deep down he knows he doesn't deserve Yui now... and probably never did.

Chuckman wrote:His master plan fails and he's killed by a beautiful woman whose affections he spurned because he has no agency without Yui.


The rest of that is debateable, but I have no idea what you're on about here.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

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Postby Chuckman » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:24 am

Rei was like "Lol I'll do what Shinji says", Yui was like "Fuck you" (I think, that's a point of contention) and he was banging Ritsuko. A more sane man would have let go of his lunatic wife who wants to kill everyone, raised his son, and settled down with the bottle blonde.

Gendo's situation is unique in that his wife isn't actually dead but she'd have been dead to me after "Let's make sure Shinji sees the robot eat me so he can be extra traumatized."
The true artist helps the world by revealing mystic truths.

"there are cracks in this timeline, void bubbling through. please remember that no matter what happens LOVE IS REAL" -Dr. Chuck Tingle, Ph. D

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:25 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Maybe what it boils down to is the fact that I feel everything Asuka does is ultimately about herself, while everything Gendo does is for someone else. I honestly do think Gendo would be satisfied with the attempt even if it meant being rejected utterly if it's successful, because deep down he knows he doesn't deserve Yui now... and probably never did.


Erm. Look, I can see the rest, but this just isn't true. His obsession with Yui was always about him, never her. If it were really about her he would have made an effort with Shinji, and he never would have taken up with the Akagis. Any bonehead should be able to figure out that cheating on your wife and alienating the son you share would upset her, but he's so mired in his depression that he never stops to think about that. It's all about getting to see her again, to be with her again, and that's very definitely all about him.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby NemZ » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:27 am

@Chuck:

So blame Fuyutsuki for not sharing the very relevant info and keeping Gendo clinging to pointless hope. If he actually got some closure on the topic it's entirely possible he and Dr. Pullring might have been far more stable. He'd also likely be much more reluctant to use 01 for anything, meaning he'd drop all this nonsense and actually make preparation and redundancy a priority, along with having good reason to make Kaji and Misato allies in full earnesty against Seele when this is all over. If they could save the world without Yui's participation is debatable though.

@Bags:

I already explained why I disagree in the bit you quoted. If you don't except that explanation I don't know what to tell you.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

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AVPD or DPD

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Postby viperzero » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:31 pm

So it seems the common consensus is Shinji has AVPD, He defiantly has a lot of symptoms of Avoidance. I was Wondering however does he also have DPD or some kind of mix? He really depends on other people to make all his major life choices (Eva pilot, Cello), To validate him (something someone with pure AVPD wouldn't worry about because they feel its negative anyway), yet his need for it is kind of a theme of the show. He almost always does as he's told even though he is clearly unhappy doing it, because he wins praise of everyone around him, Otherwise he is passive. He needs to feel needed, while someone with APVD needs to get the fuck out.

He's Kind of "Nice" and awkward and submissive (house broken male) which is something to expect from DPD but not AVPD, who might be more standoffish. He's also not all that bad in Social situations in spite of being uncomfortable, he seems functional, where as AVPD people have extreme trouble with almost any kind of personal relation and work (which say what you want he's damn good at his job, he might hate it but he's good, Japan am I right?) and rarely has more then one or two close personal relations if that. Yet I could say Shinji has a fair circle of friends. Every Time Shinji runs away, he spends a few hours at most and comes running right back on his own accord. Notice most of his introspective episodes he really gets beat up on, not so much for how he thinks everyone hates him, but he thinks everyone hates him because he is useless to them.

I think it fits better thematically too. the whole "I need you thing." Someone with AVPD, while no doubtfully very lonely and wishing they could be close to people, wouldn't feel they needed others, they need to find a way to live without them. Shinji's while he does have some avoidance features really seems more worried about being needed and wanted.

What do you all think?

Which sounds more like him

DPD

https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditi ... y-disorder

Dependent Personality Disorder

Dependent personality disorder is a psychiatric condition marked by an overreliance on other people to meet one’s emotional and physical needs.

Definition

Personality traits are enduring patterns of perceiving, relating to, and thinking about one's environment and oneself that are exhibited in a wide range of social and personal contexts. Only when personality traits are inflexible, maladaptive, and cause significant functional impairment or subjective distress are they considered personality disorders. The essential feature of a personality disorder is a continuing pattern of inner experience and behavior that deviates noticeably from the expectations of the individual's culture and is manifested in at least two of the following areas: cognition/thinking, affectivity/emotional expression, interpersonal functioning, or impulse control.

This persistent pattern is inflexible and pervasive across a broad range of personal and social situations, and leads to clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning. The pattern is stable and of long duration, which means its onset can be traced back to at least adolescence or early adulthood. This pattern is not better accounted for as a manifestation or consequence of another mental disorder and is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (such as drug abuse, medication, exposure to a toxin) or a general medical condition (such as head trauma).

Dependent personality disorder is described as a pervasive and excessive need to be taken care of that leads to submissive and clinging behavior as well as fears of separation. This pattern begins by early adulthood and is present in a variety of contexts. The dependent and submissive behaviors are designed to elicit caregiving and arise from a self-perception of being unable to function adequately without the help of others.

Individuals with dependent personality disorder have great difficulty making everyday decisions (such as what shirt to wear or whether to carry an umbrella) without an excessive amount of advice and reassurance from others. These individuals tend to be passive and allow other people (often a single other person) to take the initiative and assume responsibility for most major areas of their lives. Adults with this disorder typically depend on a parent or spouse to decide where they should live, what kind of job they should have, and which neighbors to befriend. Adolescents with this disorder may allow their parent(s) to decide what they should wear, with whom they should associate, how they should spend their free time, and what school or college they should attend.

This need for others to assume responsibility goes beyond age-appropriate and situation-appropriate requests for assistance from others (such as the specific needs of children, elderly persons, and handicapped persons). Because they fear losing support or approval, individuals with dependent personality disorder often have difficulty expressing disagreement with other people, especially those on whom they are dependent. These individuals feel so unable to function alone that they will agree with things that they feel are wrong rather than risk losing the help of those to whom they look for guidance. Individuals with this disorder have difficulty initiating projects or doing things independently.

They may go to extreme lengths to obtain nurturance and support from others, even to the point of volunteering for unpleasant tasks if such behavior will bring the care that they need. Individuals with this disorder feel uncomfortable or helpless when alone, because of their exaggerated fears of being unable to care for themselves. When a close relationship ends (such as a breakup with a lover or the death of a caregiver), individuals with dependent personality disorder may urgently seek another relationship to provide the care and support they need. They are often preoccupied with fears of being left to care for themselves.

Symptoms

People with this disorder do not trust their own ability to make decisions and feel that others have better ideas. They may be devastated by separation and loss, and they may go to great lengths, even suffering abuse, to stay in a relationship. They may tend to belittle their abilities and frequently refer to themselves as "stupid." Other symptoms include:

Difficulty making decisions without reassurance from others
Extreme passivity
Problems expressing disagreements with others
Avoiding personal responsibility
Avoiding being alone
Devastation or helplessness when relationships end
Unable to meet ordinary demands of life
Preoccupied with fears of being abandoned
Easily hurt by criticism or disapproval
Willingness to tolerate mistreatment and abuse from others
Complications of this disorder may include depression, alcohol and drug abuse, and susceptibility to physical, emotional and sexual abuse.

Causes

The cause of this disorder is not known. The disorder usually appears in early adulthood. Individuals who experienced chronic physical illness or separation anxiety disorder in childhood or adolescence may be at higher risk of developing dependent personality disorder.

The estimated prevalence of this disorder in the general population is less than 1%. More women than men have been found to have dependent personality disorder.

Treatments

Psychotherapy is the preferred form of treatment for people with dependent personality disorder. Cognitive-behavioral therapy focuses on patterns of thinking that are maladaptive, the beliefs that underlie such thinking, and resolving symptoms or traits that are characteristic of the disorder—such as the inability to make important life decisions or the inability to initiate relationships. Improvements are usually seen only with long-term therapy or treatment.

Medication may be helpful to treat any other underlying conditions. Certain types of drugs, such as antidepressants, sedatives, and tranquilizers are often prescribed for patients with dependent personality disorder to treat co-occurring conditions.


or AVPD
https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditi ... y-disorder
Avoidant Personality Disorder

Many of us struggle with shyness, but approximately 2 percent of the population suffer from avoidant personality disorder. Extreme shyness and fear of rejection make it difficult for them to interact socially and professionally.

Definition

Personality disorders are long-lived patterns of behavior that cause problems with work and relationships. Avoidant personality disorder is a psychiatric condition characterized by a lifelong pattern of extreme social inhibition, feelings of inadequacy, and sensitivity to rejection. People with avoidant personality disorder may avoid work activities or decline job offers because of fears of criticism or disappointment from others. They may be inhibited in social situations as a result of low self-esteem and feelings of inadequacy. Additionally, they may be preoccupied with their own shortcomings and form relationships with others only if they think they will not be rejected. Loss and rejection are so painful to these individuals that they will choose loneliness rather than risk trying to connect with others. About 2 percent of the population, equally divided between the sexes, have this disorder.

Symptoms

Some common signs of avoidant personality disorder include:

Easily hurt by criticism or disapproval
Has no close friends
Reluctant to become involved with people
Avoids activities or occupations that involve contact with others
Shy in social situations out of fear of doing something wrong
Exaggerates potential difficulties
Shows excessive restraint in intimate relationships
Feels socially inept, inferior, or unappealing to other people
Unwilling to take risks or try new things because they may prove embarassing
Causes

The cause of avoidant personality disorder is unknown. Genetics or environmental factors, such as rejection by a parent or peers, may play a role in the development of the condition.

The avoidant behavior typically starts in infancy or early childhood with shyness, isolation, and avoidance of strangers or new places. Most people who are shy in their early years tend to grow out of this behavior, but those who develop avoidant personality disorder become increasingly timid as they enter adolescence and adulthood.

Treatments

Antidepressant medications can often reduce sensitivity to rejection. Psychotherapy, particularly cognitive/behavioral approaches, may be helpful. A combination of medication and talk therapy may be more effective than either treatment alone.

People with this disorder may have some ability to relate to others, and this can be improved with treatment. Without treatment, those with avoidant personality disorder may become resigned to a life of near or total isolation. They may go on to develop a second psychiatric disorder such as substance abuse or a mood disorder such as depression. It is important to get help from a health-care provider or a psychiatrist if shyness or fear of rejection overwhelm one's ability to function in life and form relationships.


I think he has signs of both but I think he is much more DPD since he real seems to be more in need of validation then fear of others. He has both mind you but I think way more one then the other.

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Re: Evangelion and Personality Disorders.

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Postby Snow » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:36 am

I would go for DPD. Apart from avoiding being alone, he fulfils the symptoms of the disorder quite well. In contrast, he has many of the Symptoms of AVDP too, although he does want to become closer with people. This is most obvious when he let his defences down Kaworu. A mistake.


What comes to Rei's situation, there is not really anything detailed for a case as specific as her's. ''The Ayanami Disorder''?
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Re: AVPD or DPD

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Postby pwhodges » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:02 am

View Original Postviperzero wrote:He's Kind of "Nice" and awkward and submissive (house broken male)

It's a mere detail, but I do object to the description of someone who is prepared to handle domestic responsibilities as "broken" - it's an out-dated macho concept that needs to go away. When Shinji is most obviously domestic (cooking) he is not in any way submissive - on the contrary, he is putting effort into trying to compensate for and straighten out Misato's domestic deficiencies - which is not "broken" behaviour but one of his most responsible sides, the more so because it's one of the few things he does without prompting.
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Re: Evangelion and Personality Disorders.

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:34 am

Agreed. Shinji's domestic side is the healthiest aspect of his personality.

As to personality disorders, my understanding is that they're somewhat out of fashion in the psychological community at the moment since people rarely fit into neat, tidy boxes. We go back and forth about whether someone has this disorder or that, and that's exactly why the current approach seems to involve abandoning the "disorder" concept and instead just looking at unhealthy elements to a person's psyche -- he's avoidant, he's dependent, she's attention-seeking, she's schizoid, etc. This allows mental health professionals to focus on actual problems rather than fussing about with labels.
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Re: Evangelion and Personality Disorders.

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Postby viperzero » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:11 am

Woot! I definitely think he does have some avpd that's why he's so miserable because it makes his dpd more difficult. As for the house broken male thing, I dont mean that he did house who. I might be miss remembering, but didn't give up and just do as he was told before that. I'm thinking maybe the trip to okinawa but maybe not or maybe he didn't feel like going which is fine, I get that.

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Re: Evangelion and Personality Disorders.

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Postby Snow » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:10 am

View Original Postviperzero wrote:Woot! I definitely think he does have some avpd that's why he's so miserable because it makes his dpd more difficult. As for the house broken male thing, I dont mean that he did house who. I might be miss remembering, but didn't give up and just do as he was told before that. I'm thinking maybe the trip to okinawa but maybe not or maybe he didn't feel like going which is fine, I get that.


He had to stay against his will, as i remember it. The others could go because they were not pilots.
Fuyutsuki did nothing wrong.


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