Are you pondering what I'm pondering?

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:10 pm

I've been thinking about a lot of things lately. But the only ones we are particularly interested in right now are the "Eva"-related things.

In my Pilgrimage Through NGE Hell, I've been stumbling into a number of questions. Sometimes my mind draws a complete blank; sometimes I think I have an idea, but I'm interested in others' takes nonetheless. Since they've been piling up, and I need to unload, I figured I would start my own "Random Question" thread. Yeah, like we really need another one, right? However, an overwhelming, inexplicable urge to make an "Animaniacs" reference overwhelmed the yen for Forum Economy.

At any rate, here are three to start things off. Remember that I'm not asking these rhetorically.

(1) #24: In the final scene, with Shinji and Misato at the beach, Shinji says that "Kaworu-kun was like me". What does he mean by this?

(2) #26': Why does Gendo stick his hand into Rei's left breast and immediately move it down towards her navel?

(3) #21: During the Antarctic Investigation scene, we see that Misato is being "quarantined" on Investigation Ship No. 2. Why is she being kept on this ship? What's the deal with the conditions she's being kept under?

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 02:10 GMT

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Postby CyberNinja5 [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:10 pm

I think I may have a explanation to 1 and 3. 1's answer might be that he and Kaworu were both serching for the reason they live for and why they do the things they do. And 3 might be because she was the only survior of the exploration team and they were afraid that she would tell the world about what really happened during the second impact. ANd then the world would panic and there would be utter chaos.

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 02:30 GMT

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Postby millinniummany3 [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:10 pm

Add to that what might have happened to her instead of being tangified\killed. There's every reason to believe that Misato may have been turned into a mutant or Angel or something that made her survive.

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 02:33 GMT

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Postby Animematt55 [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:10 pm

"I think so Brain, But burlap chaffs me so"

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 02:37 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:10 pm

Obviously, I'll go with, "Kaworu-kun was like me" Image
Eh, they were children(in his mind) involved in this perpetual "war". I guess...
More seriously, I "ponder", that Shinji was refering to the fact that he couldn't fathom that a person as accepting and understanding as Kaworu could be this "alien" thing(in his mind remember), this person couldn't be his enemy becuase he was a children just like him(I really wish Kaworu was in more then one epsiode epecially for this reason, to better stress this point). Shinji seemed to have had far worse human enemies in his mind, and the people he was close to were becoming unbearable to make contact with (Rei, Asuka, Misato, Touji, everyone). Then, we know what he attempts in EOE...

Also, going back to his thoughts on his enemy, Shinji has often questioned why he must fight the angels(which is something I often forget.), even what they were, especially in epsiodes 11 and 20 (enemy!?) He seemed to find more fault with the humans around him at first then these creatures, until he realized he must pilot the Eva(epspecially around/after 18-19).
Asuka, Misato, and Gendo gave him the influence that they must be destroyed at all cost(which he easily is influenced by these women, and as for Gendo, he wants to be in his favor for the while) So he went along with it, and eventually, accepted it, like many impressionable people would(and any person who's life was threatened as well).
Then, in EoE, Misato gives him the truth of what the angels are/were, but obviously, it's too late and he doesn't much care anymore. "Who cares to they were human in a different form? Kaworu's still dead, Rei comes from a fish tank, and everyone else is mentally unstable(Hi Ideon)."
Actually, for your second question, I actually like the idea that Adam needed to be fused in her womb...even though she may very well be "a women who does not bleed."(and maybe starting at the breast was a 'lil mix of her "heart", her core/ fanservice?)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have a few quickies myself;
Why such a design change for the harpies from conventual Evas?(both from a production design side of the matter and maybe within the show itself. Was it because they were cheaper?)
How did Asuka know of the MP Eva series to begin with?
Is there really any meaning behind Keel's visor being rainbow colored in EoE?
Why does Rei have a navel at all? XD

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 02:49 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:10 pm

Magami No ER wrote:Actually, for your second question, I actually like the idea that Adam needed to be fused in her womb...even though she may very well be "a women who does not bleed."(and maybe started at the breast was a 'lil mix of her "heart", her core/ fanservice?)


When Gendo's arm is devoured, you can see that he had placed it exactly where Rei's navel is. That should be far too high for the uterus.

Rei shouldn't have a core. (Presumably wouldn't be in the genetic coding.) The "heart" idea might be onto something, although there are more direct paths to that particular organ than the one Gendo chose. Image For some reason, the words "Embryo want suck titty!" come to mind, although I have no idea if those are of any relevance whatsoever. Image

The "fan service" angle is one that I've largely come to dismiss as a source of "explanations", at least in the second half of the series. (First half, it's case-by-case.) It's very unsatisfying, IMO, much like the "plot hole" designations that had once been assigned to things that did end up having very logical and straightforward explanations after all.

Why does Rei have a navel at all? XD


Apparently the umbilical cord is a body part in everyone's inherent genetic coding, although it is also one that you no longer need once you've left the womb -- hence why it dries up and falls off (if not forcibly removed). But in utero stuff, and the interplay between the developing child and the womb nurturing it, is not an area I know much about, so I hesitate to say any more.

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 03:23 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:11 pm

Reichu wrote:When Gendo's arm is devoured, you can see that he had placed it exactly where Rei's navel is. That should be far too high for the uterus.

Rei's torso is QUITE long though. Image
j/k
Then again, maybe the navel IS the part the embryo needed to fuse with...
What did you think of my Kaworu-kun thing?; not to be a bother but...I haven't typed that much(as if that was a lot) in a while...

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 03:27 GMT

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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:11 pm

Magami No ER wrote:What did you think of my Kaworu-kun thing?; not to be a bother but...I haven't typed that much(as if that was a lot) in a while...


For what its worth I think you're on the right track. Kaworu wasn't some rampaging monster (the angels taking on more human characteristics as they go is done willfully, no doubt). He was a pasty young boy just like Shinji, and in fact probably seemed more human to him then most people Shinji came into contact with.

Magami No ER wrote:Is there really any meaning behind Keel's visor being rainbow colored in EoE?


Pride colors?

Reichu wrote:(2) #26': Why does Gendo stick his hand into Rei's left breast ...


Because it was Rei's left breast? Image

Reichu wrote:(3) #21: During the Antarctic Investigation scene, we see that Misato is being "quarantined" on Investigation Ship No. 2. Why is she being kept on this ship? What's the deal with the conditions she's being kept under?


I tend to write it off as the way most things are handled in Seele/Nerv/whatever

"What? Some girl was found alive? Hide her away and make sure she comes into contact with no one!! And where is my feast of young ones!? I hunger!"

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 03:49 GMT

The Eva Monkey [ANF]
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Postby The Eva Monkey [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:11 pm

Reichu wrote:Are you pondering what I'm pondering?
I don't know brain, but where are we going to find glow in the dark furniture at this time of night?

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 04:52 GMT

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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:11 pm

1) You might say that, but I could not possibly comment.

2) The reason for the starting location is fan-service; but the sweep passes through the solar plexus. I think he's fishing for something at that chakra, if not a literal core.

3) Information quarantine, news management and all that.

@Magami
"How did Asuka know of the MP Eva series to begin with?"

Good q. Misato only mentions them to Shinji before this. And Kyoko was out of circulation long enough to be an unlikely source of information.

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 07:37 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:11 pm

First off, suggestion: If you add your own questions, could you enumerate them? So, to apply to treatment to Magami's:
(4) Why such a design change for the harpies from conventual Evas?(both from a production design side of the matter and maybe within the show itself. Was it because they were cheaper?)
(5) How did Asuka know of the MP Eva series to begin with?
(6) Is there really any meaning behind Keel's visor being rainbow colored in EoE?
(7) Why does Rei have a navel at all? XD
And next, before I troddle on back to bed.

Mr. Tines wrote:2) The reason for the starting location is fan-service; but the sweep passes through the solar plexus. I think he's fishing for something at that chakra, if not a literal core.


Are there any reasons to (A) think the starting location is really fan service (because this requires discounting the existence of non-fan service possibilities...), and (B) Rei has a core?

Although, hmm, fishing? "Yes! Just like fishing!!"

But what was so interesting about her navel, though, aside from the fact that it could make another little (very subtle) yoni when it devoured Gendo's arm?

3) Information quarantine, news management and all that.


But why a SHIP? What the heck was this ship doing that made it such a great place to stash her?

More replies later... I'm just doing the easy stuff first.

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 10:08 GMT

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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:11 pm

Umm.....how about he's implanting Adam in her womb.

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 12:34 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:11 pm

tv33 wrote:For what its worth I think you're on the right track. Kaworu wasn't some rampaging monster


How many of the Angels were?

(the angels taking on more human characteristics as they go is done willfully, no doubt).


What do you mean?

He was a pasty young boy just like Shinji, and in fact probably seemed more human to him then most people Shinji came into contact with.


Human, yes. Saying that ve was a "pasty young boy just like Shinji" doesn't quite pan out, though. Kaworu is a genetic fusion of Adam and a Lilim (created on the day of 2I as a result of the Contact Experiment). Ve hatched from a mandorla, much like Sandalphon. Ve possesses the soul of Adam, who is a mother billions of years old. And the way Kaworu acts and talks, it shows, too...

IMO, Shinji wouldn't have been completely oblivious to the fact that "there's something strange about Kaworu-kun" -- he's much more astute than people give him credit for being, actually. So Shinji saying "Kaworu-kun was like me" just because they were both Children or something doesn't feel quite right to me. If that's all it's supposed to mean, that seems like a hell of a throwaday line. Maybe Shinji is talking about something else altogether?

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 12:38 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:11 pm

tv33 wrote:For what its worth I think you're on the right track. Kaworu wasn't some rampaging monster


How many of the Angels were?

(the angels taking on more human characteristics as they go is done willfully, no doubt).


What do you mean?

He was a pasty young boy just like Shinji, and in fact probably seemed more human to him then most people Shinji came into contact with.


Human, yes. Saying that ve was a "pasty young boy just like Shinji" doesn't quite pan out, though. Kaworu is a genetic fusion of Adam and a Lilim (created on the day of 2I as a result of the Contact Experiment). Ve hatched from a mandorla, much like Sandalphon. Ve possesses the soul of Adam, who is a mother billions of years old. And the way Kaworu acts and talks, it shows, too...

IMO, Shinji wouldn't have been completely oblivious to the fact that "there's something strange about Kaworu-kun" -- he's much more astute than people give him credit for being, actually. So Shinji saying "Kaworu-kun was like me" just because they were both Children or something doesn't feel quite right to me. If that's all it's supposed to mean, that seems like a hell of a throwaway line. Maybe Shinji is talking about something else altogether?

New question:

(8) #26': Why did Rei's arm fall off?

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 12:41 GMT

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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:11 pm

Reichu wrote:How many of the Angels were?


To Shinji they were. When he entered Tokyo-3 the first thing he saw was the battle between the JSSDF and Sachiel. Not to mention everyone pounding into he head that they had to be destroyed.

Shinji: Listen, what do you think Angels are?

Asuka: What're you babbling about at a time like this?

Shinji: Angels, messengers of the God. Our enemies with Angel names.
Why are we fighting against them?

Asuka: Are you an idiot? Unidentified things are invading us, you know.
It's natural that we'd have to deal with a lot of difficulties
falling unexpectedly on our heads.


My point is that it is easier to kill something that doesn't look human.

Reichu wrote:What do you mean?


The first angels were just stagnant beings that simply came to Tokyo-3, fought with the Eva's, and were killed. Later however they displayed more human characteristics, and in the case of Armisael even engaged in a dialog with Rei, and displayed a sense of understanding and curiosity that the others where either not capable of, or not capable of displaying.

Reichu wrote:Human, yes. Saying that ve was a "pasty young boy just like Shinji" doesn't quite pan out, though. Kaworu is a genetic fusion of Adam and a Lilim (created on the day of 2I as a result of the Contact Experiment). Ve hatched from a mandorla, much like Sandalphon. Ve possesses the soul of Adam, who is a mother billions of years old.


Shinji didn't know any of that though. When he was communicating with Kaworu he was doing it on a human level because that was what he believed him to be.


Reichu wrote:And the way Kaworu acts and talks, it shows, too...

IMO, Shinji wouldn't have been completely oblivious to the fact that "there's something strange about Kaworu-kun" -- he's much more astute than people give him credit for being, actually.


Kaworu certainly wasn't normal, but nether was Shinji. It's for this reason that he found him easier to identify with.

Reichu wrote:Maybe Shinji is talking about something else altogether?


I'm not sure what else he could have meant. They were quite dissimilar in many ways (Hence the reason Shinji was able to get along so much better when him then with Asuka, for example). Openness vs repression - charisma vs clumsiness – Forethought vs pleasure/pain reactionary behavior.

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 14:49 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:12 pm

I completely argee with TV33, and that was the orginal point I was making, along with the fact that Shinji at least questioned who his enemy was for a while, until the latter epsiodes when Asuka, Misato, & Gendo especially were so determined to be rid of the angels. Remember he is easily influenced(and not astute as he "should" be when it comes with dealing with folks. )
That and Shinji's getting accustomed to pilot the Eva(which is drilled into our heads) to keep this "horrible enemy" at bay.
Remember, we know more about the angels then he does. ^^;

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 16:00 GMT

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Postby Zugzwang [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:12 pm

It is the most receptive and nurturing area to new/aged life that is external (already born) of the womb.

Perhaps the best bet to stop rejection of a new organism's soul is to literally dissolve the ATF boundaries by going to the direct centre of the body, the heart. Or maybe it has more to do with the thymus than the heart, seeing as that deals with foreign bodies with T cells. Uh.

.. - ... / -- --- .-. . / .-.. .. -.- . .-.. -.-- / - --- / -... . / .--. ..- .-. . .-.. -.-- / ... -.-- -- -... --- .-.. .. -.-. / - .... --- ..- --. ....

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 17:06 GMT

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Postby HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:12 pm

*gasp!* Stuffman makes a feeble attempt at actual contribution! Likely to fail miserably!

Reichu wrote:(1) #24: In the final scene, with Shinji and Misato at the beach, Shinji says that "Kaworu-kun was like me". What does he mean by this?

IIRC at some other point in that conversation Shinji says "I should have died instead of him." By saying "he was like me," I think Shinji was in effect saying "what makes me any more worth life than he was?" Considering how down on himself he is, it seems in keeping with Shinji's character.

(2) #26': Why does Gendo stick his hand into Rei's left breast and immediately move it down towards her navel?

I was always under the impression that he was looking for her womb, but since I'm not an expert on female anatomy, if you say that he was in the wrong spot, then I'll take your word for it. Outta curiosity though, are there any other organs of interest in the general area he's feeling around in? Offhand I can't think of anything that might hold any sort of significance...maybe Rei had eaten the last slice of pizza earlier on, and he was feeling around her stomach to try to get it back. Image

(4) Why such a design change for the harpies from conventual Evas?(both from a production design side of the matter and maybe within the show itself. Was it because they were cheaper?)

I'd guess that the show's designers just wanted to differentiate them from the other Evas, to make them more striking. I'm not aware of much evidence as to what "practical" reasons there might have been for Seele to make them look different.

(5) How did Asuka know of the MP Eva series to begin with?

IIRC she always seemed to be a bit more in tune with what was going on Nerv-wise than, say, Shinji was...weren't there a few points therein in which Shinji asks her "Isn't xyz correct?" and she'd reply "No, you moron, abc is what really happened!" Something like that...I don't think there's much direct evidence as to exactly how much she knows, but unlike Shinji she was more or less raised to be an Eva pilot, and saw (and presumably knew) more about the whole kit and kaboodle than he did, at any rate.

(6) Is there really any meaning behind Keel's visor being rainbow colored in EoE?

I remember noting the "rainbow brite colors" (as you labeled them) found on the actual Seele logo...maybe it's an indication of him finally seeing the group's plan realized, or something like that.

(7) Why does Rei have a navel at all? XD

Because you haven't edited all her screenshots yet to confuse the daylights out of innocent newbies. Image

(8) #26': Why did Rei's arm fall off?

I think Gendo said something about her AT Field disappearing or something like that...I'd guess her body was beginning to break up as a result. As to exactly why her field would have begun to go kaput at that point, it's probably been discussed elsewhere and I've missed it.

Originally posted on: 21-Feb-2006, 19:37 GMT

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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:12 pm

I was always under the impression that he was looking for her womb, but since I'm not an expert on female anatomy, if you say that he was in the wrong spot, then I'll take your word for it. Outta curiosity though, are there any other organs of interest in the general area he's feeling around in? Offhand I can't think of anything that might hold any sort of significance...maybe Rei had eaten the last slice of pizza earlier on, and he was feeling around her stomach to try to get it back.


That's been my impression all along is that gendo is going to implant the Adam embryo in her womb. Where else do you implant an embryo? Besides your hand I guess.....

Originally posted on: 22-Feb-2006, 08:35 GMT

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Postby Scutilla [ANF] » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:12 pm

Reichu wrote:New question:

(8) #26': Why did Rei's arm fall off?

In stage 56 of the manga, Ritsuko is giving Rei a shot. By their dialogue in the beginning, it sounds like it's a regular occurance. At the end of the scene (after Ritsuko tries to choke Rei), she says, "Don't forget to watch your mouth, Rei. I'm the one that keeps your body alive."

My conclusion? For some reason or another, Rei's body is unstable (probably due to being an artificial being, whatever process that forms the spare Reis might have been imperfect), and she needs regular shots of something to keep her from falling apart. In End of Eva, for some reason (Ritsuko not being around anymore, NERV too occupied with fighting off the JSSDF, etc.) Rei hasn't gotten her shot in a while, which is why she's starting to lose her stability. Of course, this doesn't really matter- in a few minutes she's going to be the focus of Third Impact.

Still, it's odd that Gendo would let her decompose at such a critical time, especially since he didn't have any backup bodies in the Reiquarium if Rei III fell apart on him- unless the injection to keep Rei alive was something that only Ritsuko knew how to make, and her refusing to do it was part of her Rei-icide from the end of ep. 23.

As a side note, the bodies in the Reiquarium might be immersed in this stuff, which is how they retain their stability on their own. Ritsuko's action at the end of 23 probably somehow drained out or neutralized the stuff in the tank- the dummy Reis fall apart similarly to how Rei does in EoE (both right before merging with Lilith and when GNR dies).

Originally posted on: 22-Feb-2006, 01:17 GMT


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