Is Shinji autistic?
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- anatrok
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Is Shinji autistic?
Particularly, I think he has Ausburgers (don't have a clue as to the spelling) He's not good with people, and he gets streasted out real easly. Even though he doesn't do well at school, that could be attributed to the stress of Eva, and other things. What do you all think?
Well, full blown autism is a severe state which makes social relationships and contact problematic--so Shinji does present similar traits, albeit of a less sever nature--I am not saying that he has autism by any means, just that if you take autism as a metaphor for people who have trouble "connecting" in a social environment then Shinji could be viewed through that lens--make any sense?
"Men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, for everyone can see and few can feel. Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are."-Niccolo Machiavelli
"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination."-Mark Twain
"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination."-Mark Twain
anatrok wrote:Yeah, I didn't say he was serverly autistic, more that he showed trait's that people with ausburgers have. Ausburgers is a mild form of autism.
Yeah, I got ya--I was just saying that I have heard others make a similar point but it was more about the symbolism of autistic traits rather than an actual physical ailment, thats all....
"Men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, for everyone can see and few can feel. Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are."-Niccolo Machiavelli
"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination."-Mark Twain
"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination."-Mark Twain
It's "Asperger's" Syndrome, not Ausburgers.
Oh, and fer cryin' out loud, Autism is not a metaphor - It is a medically recognised condition, and it's not something which people should be so flippant about, or dismissive of. This debate has arisen recently on this forum, and it was BS then, and it is BS now.
Oh, and fer cryin' out loud, Autism is not a metaphor - It is a medically recognised condition, and it's not something which people should be so flippant about, or dismissive of. This debate has arisen recently on this forum, and it was BS then, and it is BS now.
Natsukashii, ne?
Anatrok wrote:Sorry, I did say I didn't know the spelling of it. And how can you say it's bs, all I said was that Shinji acted like he had aspergers. I think that at least is obvious.
No, that's not the part that's BS. The part that's BS is where people say that Autism is not real, or that act like it's all in the minds of the people who suffer from it, or try to make the word mean something that it does not.
Dave wrote:Well I don't believe in mental disorders, so I'm going to go with "no" on this one. He certainly does have a hard time communicating with others, so I can see where you're coming from.
You don't believe in mental disorders? OK...
Natsukashii, ne?
Soluzar wrote:No, that's not the part that's BS. The part that's BS is where people say that Autism is not real, or that act like it's all in the minds of the people who suffer from it, or try to make the word mean something that it does not.
Who said that? Autism is certainly a real disorder, in the real world--I was referring to how one could view Shinji--he isn't autistic, but you can see how he presents certain characteristics that seem autistic or related to the nature of the disorder, thats all....not sure what is so bad about that, its just a way to think about the character...
"Men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, for everyone can see and few can feel. Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are."-Niccolo Machiavelli
"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination."-Mark Twain
"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination."-Mark Twain
- Mr. Tines
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It would probably be worth people paying a visit to Google, on Autism and Theory of Mind. Whatever Shinji's other problems, this
from ep#16 demonstrates that he has a fully functional second order theory of mind.
Actually, the fact that he does have such a facility seems to be close to the root of his problems - if he were oblivious, he might be happier (or at least differently unhappy).
Shinji ' : The self who is actually watched by others and
the self which watches itself.
IKARI Shinji in your mind.
IKARI Shinji in KATSURAGI Misato's mind.
IKARI Shinji in Soryuu Asuka's mind.
IKARI Shinji in Ayanami Rei's mind.
IKARI Shinji in IKARI Gendou's mind.
Each IKARI Shinji is different from the others,
but each of them is a true IKARI Shinji.
You're afraid of the IKARI Shinji in others' minds.
from ep#16 demonstrates that he has a fully functional second order theory of mind.
Actually, the fact that he does have such a facility seems to be close to the root of his problems - if he were oblivious, he might be happier (or at least differently unhappy).
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bp32 wrote:Who said that? Autism is certainly a real disorder, in the real world--I was referring to how one could view Shinji--he isn't autistic, but you can see how he presents certain characteristics that seem autistic or related to the nature of the disorder, thats all....not sure what is so bad about that, its just a way to think about the character...
See... people tend to forget that it's a real condition, that causes real problems for real people. In the last thread where it got brought up, things got a trace unpleasant - I can see what you are referring to, I just don't see what can be gained by considering the character as an autist.
Natsukashii, ne?
Soluzar wrote:See... people tend to forget that it's a real condition, that causes real problems for real people. In the last thread where it got brought up, things got a trace unpleasant - I can see what you are referring to, I just don't see what can be gained by considering the character as an autist.
Well, I wasn't involved in the last discussion (at least, I don't remember being), but I for one certainly know that it is a real disorder....as far as what can be gained, it is up to a particular viewer--there are certainly some interesting parallels or themes that emerge from watching Shinji throughout the series (i.e. problems with social relationships, being withdrawn and inaccessible--especially later in the series and in EoE, and the whole notion of the Absolute Terror Field). It is just a way to describe his "condition" using a term that denotes certain characteristics--even if we are not saying that he has that particular condition. Its like saying someone is "psychotic" because they are acting in an erratic, irrational manner even though they do not actually have a pyschosis of any kind--is it helpful? Again, it depends on the viewer I guess---to each his own...
"Men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, for everyone can see and few can feel. Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are."-Niccolo Machiavelli
"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination."-Mark Twain
"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination."-Mark Twain
- Reichu
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Not being a total expert on psychology, my impulse is still to say: No, Shinji is not autistic. I'm an Aspy with depression and anxiety myself, and, while I can relate to Shinji in many ways, I can't help but think that the problems have entirely different roots. I was born the way I am (yes, Dave, mental disorders are very real) and have struggled throughout my life with my problems... They are there even though I have a loving and supportive family and access to tools that help me combat my ills. Shinji, on the other hand, does NOT have access to these things, and he has had a traumatic and disruptive life all the way back into childhood. Is it not possible that his problems are ENVIRONMENTAL, nurture-based, rather than genetic? Autism and Asperger's are things you are born with, not things you develop when your life goes amiss.
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- Olin of Xephon
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Could you expound?
What do you mean when you say you don't belive in mental disorders Dave? There is certantly enough proof in the world that not everybody's laying with a full deck out there.
And if they are not suffering from mental disorders why don't they have complete control of their minds?
And if they are not suffering from mental disorders why don't they have complete control of their minds?
I asked "And where would you take me?"
At this the beast laughed, tears made of my mother's blood leaked from his eyes.
"I will take you to every place you never wanted to be, and you will hate it."
"Then I will take you to every place you've already been, and you will hate that also."
"Last I will take you to the places you have always dreamed of, and that you'll hate worst of all."
At this the beast laughed, tears made of my mother's blood leaked from his eyes.
"I will take you to every place you never wanted to be, and you will hate it."
"Then I will take you to every place you've already been, and you will hate that also."
"Last I will take you to the places you have always dreamed of, and that you'll hate worst of all."
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Re: Could you expound?
Olin of Xephon wrote:What do you mean when you say you don't belive in mental disorders Dave? There is certantly enough proof in the world that not everybody's laying with a full deck out there.
And if they are not suffering from mental disorders why don't they have complete control of their minds?
As someone who has suffered for 22 1/2 years with various "diagnoses", I'm inclined to think that they are quite real.
However -- I don't think a single person on this planet can control their mind 100%.
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I do beleive in mental disorders, but I also think a LARGE percentage of people diagnosed do not need medcation.
example a friend of mine who will remaind nameless once took pills for depression he stoped taking them after he got a new job and moved out of his parents house. He was almost thirty and had been dilvering take out since highschool.
I'm not mocking anyone that need these things to function, but its people that really don't and just either want a legal drug fix or have a doctor that wants a kickback that piss me off.
example a friend of mine who will remaind nameless once took pills for depression he stoped taking them after he got a new job and moved out of his parents house. He was almost thirty and had been dilvering take out since highschool.
I'm not mocking anyone that need these things to function, but its people that really don't and just either want a legal drug fix or have a doctor that wants a kickback that piss me off.
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Psychiatrists medicate too quickly and for too little a reason, on most cases.
"Do you want to stop smoking? -> Clonazepam". That's an automated response for them.
Of course there are people who need the pills, like this guy I know who obeys commands from the TV and the Radio who order him to make breakfast or dinner.
But for each of this cases who really need the dope, there are thousands more who didn't need it, but are still medicated. Ritalin, Clonazepam, Paxil, Trileptal: The easy on parents dope. I mean, don't want to take care of your kids, too busy? Sent them to their new best friend, who comes in the cute form of a pill.
"Do you want to stop smoking? -> Clonazepam". That's an automated response for them.
Of course there are people who need the pills, like this guy I know who obeys commands from the TV and the Radio who order him to make breakfast or dinner.
But for each of this cases who really need the dope, there are thousands more who didn't need it, but are still medicated. Ritalin, Clonazepam, Paxil, Trileptal: The easy on parents dope. I mean, don't want to take care of your kids, too busy? Sent them to their new best friend, who comes in the cute form of a pill.
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- Olin of Xephon
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Oh boy...Medications prescribed by Psychiatrists...one of my favorite subjects.
I have always wondered about therapists (of any mental nature) there name for instance...The Rapists? What's up?
And while i don't think everyone who gets easily distracted, or has trouble bringing up their grades, or feels melencholy oftne, needs to rush out and get a prescription much less sit around listening to the Spiel most of those Quacks spout and expect you to pay for, there are people with SERIOUS mental disorders out there.
I have always wondered about therapists (of any mental nature) there name for instance...The Rapists? What's up?
And while i don't think everyone who gets easily distracted, or has trouble bringing up their grades, or feels melencholy oftne, needs to rush out and get a prescription much less sit around listening to the Spiel most of those Quacks spout and expect you to pay for, there are people with SERIOUS mental disorders out there.
I asked "And where would you take me?"
At this the beast laughed, tears made of my mother's blood leaked from his eyes.
"I will take you to every place you never wanted to be, and you will hate it."
"Then I will take you to every place you've already been, and you will hate that also."
"Last I will take you to the places you have always dreamed of, and that you'll hate worst of all."
At this the beast laughed, tears made of my mother's blood leaked from his eyes.
"I will take you to every place you never wanted to be, and you will hate it."
"Then I will take you to every place you've already been, and you will hate that also."
"Last I will take you to the places you have always dreamed of, and that you'll hate worst of all."
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