Eva fans, your thoughts on RahXephon

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saiyajin prince [ANF]
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Postby saiyajin prince [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:17 pm

GandalfsStudent wrote:but in eva mythogolgy how were human's born from Lilith.


Wait!! are you asking or stating that?

Originally posted on: 31-May-2003, 02:10 GMT

MDWigs [ANF]
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Postby MDWigs [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:17 pm

Orin_Quon wrote:Utena.


Utena does have a number of diverse elements, but it is hardly on the scale of Eva.

Originally posted on: 31-May-2003, 06:11 GMT

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Postby Orin_Quon [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:17 pm

MDWigs wrote:Utena does have a number of diverse elements, but it is hardly on the scale of Eva.


You don't think anything in the world is in the scale of Eva. Even if said diverse elements are just clichés.

Originally posted on: 31-May-2003, 13:07 GMT

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Postby MDWigs [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:17 pm

Orin_Quon wrote:You don't think anything in the world is in the scale of Eva. Even if said diverse elements are just clichés.


No anime I have seen thus fan has brought together such a diverse range of ideas the way Eva has. That makes it original. Sure it is possible for an anime to come along and do it better than Eva, and it is possible that an anime exists that I haven't seen that does it better. But as of now, all of the anime I have seen, and I've seen a lot, don't come close.

Utena is a great anime, but it doesn't combine the breadth of ideas that Eva has (old ideas they may be) and combines them all into a unified story.

Originally posted on: 31-May-2003, 13:24 GMT

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Postby GandalfsWhisper [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:17 pm

saiyajin prince wrote:Wait!! are you asking or stating that?


asking, damn I forgot to add a question mark.

Originally posted on: 01-Jun-2003, 02:21 GMT

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Postby Antenora [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:17 pm

Having just finished the first nine episodes of rah, I can say that it more interesting than the first nine eps of eva, although that isn't saying much.

Originally posted on: 01-Jun-2003, 05:32 GMT

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Postby GandalfsWhisper [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:17 pm

Antenora wrote:Having just finished the first nine episodes of rah, I can say that it more interesting than the first nine eps of eva, although that isn't saying much.


The first half of Eva was mediocre the second half was a masterpiece.

Originally posted on: 01-Jun-2003, 07:01 GMT

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Postby GandalfsWhisper [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:17 pm

Antenora wrote:Having just finished the first nine episodes of rah, I can say that it more interesting than the first nine eps of eva, although that isn't saying much.


The first half of Eva was mediocre the second half was a masterpiece. Who knows how RahXephon will turn out.

Originally posted on: 01-Jun-2003, 07:07 GMT

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Postby Antenora [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:17 pm

Actually, a lot of people know how it will turn out. Fansubs finished the series a while ago. The first part of eva is NOT mediocre, just because its a little slow compared to the second half doesn't mean anything. The character and plot development of the first half is essential to support the second half, but I digress. I like how rah gets to the point much quicker, although as we can see from series like betterman, it can quickly fall apart. I have high expectations for the rest of the series, but I am in no way saying it is better than eva, nothing is (Image:lolImage I'm just saying that I really like where it is going and i think it could end up in the same caliber as eva, to make a short explanation long. Image

Originally posted on: 01-Jun-2003, 07:54 GMT

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Postby Grant Oldman [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:17 pm

Still going through Brain Powered at present. Not sure how that compares with RX.

I'll probably wait until a RX box set is released at a lower price per disc, or buy a R3 version.

Grant Oldman

Originally posted on: 01-Jun-2003, 12:33 GMT

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Postby Orin_Quon [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:17 pm

GandalfsStudent wrote:The first half of Eva was mediocre the second half was a masterpiece. Who knows how RahXephon will turn out.


I personally think it gets better (even considering how much i love the beginning episodes), the ending is my favorite ending in an anime. But that's just me. I'm a RX fan.

MDWigs wrote:No anime I have seen thus fan has brought together such a diverse range of ideas the way Eva has. That makes it original. Sure it is possible for an anime to come along and do it better than Eva, and it is possible that an anime exists that I haven't seen that does it better. But as of now, all of the anime I have seen, and I've seen a lot, don't come close.

Utena is a great anime, but it doesn't combine the breadth of ideas that Eva has (old ideas they may be) and combines them all into a unified story.


Bringing old ideas together is not originality.

The Matrix has an overload of references, maybe even as much as Eva, but that doesn't make it any better or creative at all.

I don't think Eva (or RX) is original. I like both shows because of the writing.

Most of the stuff in the "breadth of ideas" of Eva does not add anything. Cabala, Tree of Life, Fruit of Wisdom... I know people love to look up what this or that means but if it's not an active, direct part of the anime, it doesn't mean anything (just like researching Churchward for RahXephon is cool, but doesn't really mean anything in the end).

Utena, on the other hand, has both new and old ideas. The writing is on par to Eva, and does things we haven't seen. Which obviously, you will not accept because Eva is the best-thing-ever to you. You say maybe someday something better than Eva will come up, but i doubt you would accept it. You would just find something to cling on and say "nah, Eva is more this".

It's like talking to a wall, so i'll just stop here.

Originally posted on: 01-Jun-2003, 14:43 GMT

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Postby Grant Oldman [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:17 pm

There are aspects of characters and mindsets in Evangelion that people identify with as well. The characters are real-life types acting as (you imagine folk would) in a fantasy situation.

The desperation, hopelessness and fatalism all make itr attractive in the same way as films such as Casablanca do, or some Shakespeare plays.

Also Eva has an appeal of character chemistry such as Star Trek TOS (never matched in later series IMO).

Gunbuster also has aspects of that and Macross in a different way. Pathos is always good, provided it is used in the right amounts.

Grant O.

Originally posted on: 01-Jun-2003, 16:06 GMT

saiyajin prince [ANF]
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Postby saiyajin prince [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:17 pm

I agree with Grant O, the characters is what draws most fans because people can relate to them and when you see what happens to them later in the series, they actually feel sorry or pain for them.

Originally posted on: 02-Jun-2003, 01:09 GMT

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Postby saiyajin prince [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:17 pm

GandalfsStudent wrote:asking, damn I forgot to add a question mark.


It's not stated exactly how we were born from Lillith but Misato explains this in EoE when taking Shinji to Eva01. Adam and Lillith are the two sources of life, Adam-Angels and Lillith-Humans.

Originally posted on: 02-Jun-2003, 01:11 GMT

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Postby MDWigs [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:17 pm

Orin_Quon:

Bringing old ideas together is not originality.


I'm not suggesting that it is, and if you read my original posts you will see that I believe the manner in which Anno takes such a wide range of diverse ideas and puts them together is original.

The Matrix has an overload of references, maybe even as much as Eva, but that doesn't make it any better or creative at all.

I am not suggesting that it does. I have stressed my position on this a number of times within this thread. Please read my posts a little more carefully in the future. I am not suggesting the ideas are original, or that merely bringing them together is original, I am suggesting that the manner in which it was done in Eva is original.

I don't think Eva (or RX) is original. I like both shows because of the writing.

That's good for you. I like the writing in both as well. Please note that I'm not trying to convince you that they are original. I am merely putting forward my own viewpoint and my reasons for thinking the show demonstrates originality. Now if you can actually show another series that does the same thing in the same manner previously, then please do tell me about it. I would love to watch it and then I might change my position. At the moment though nothing I have seen comes close and you haven't really provided any reason for me to believe that it is not original other than saying "the ideas have been done before". Yes. They have. I do know this. I've known this for the five years I've been an Eva fan. I realised it as soon as I first watched the series. That doesn't stop me thinking the manner in which those ideas were portrayed is original. If you can provide me with some reasons why this manner isn't original then we can talk. At the moment though you just seem to be parroting the same old things.

Most of the stuff in the "breadth of ideas" of Eva does not add anything. Cabala, Tree of Life, Fruit of Wisdom... I know people love to look up what this or that means but if it's not an active, direct part of the anime, it doesn't mean anything (just like researching Churchward for RahXephon is cool, but doesn't really mean anything in the end).

I agree. Much of the symbolism in Eva is completely meaningless. The creators have admitted to using it simple becuase "it looks cool". How does that affect the original manner that Anno took all these ideas (and many others) and formed them into such a great anime series?

Utena, on the other hand, has both new and old ideas. The writing is on par to Eva, and does things we haven't seen.

It is a great series. I dislike a few aspects of it, but overall I regard it highly. The writing is fantastic and it does do a number of things I hadn't seen before in anime. But I stress again, Eva was never about original ideas, its originally is derived from the manner in which such a wide range of diverse ideas is brought together. Utenta didn't do something similar to Eva; in fact stylistically it is worlds apart. The scale and scope of Utena and the manner in which its ideas are presented are not even close to Evas, thus I fail to see why you would put it forward as a counter-example against Eva's originality.

Which obviously, you will not accept because Eva is the best-thing-ever to you.

Well obviously not, see above. I don't believe Eva is the best anime ever produced, it is merely my favourite anime, one that I enjoy watching, and which I believe is very original in its style and makeup.

You say maybe someday something better than Eva will come up, but i doubt you would accept it. You would just find something to cling on and say "nah, Eva is more this".

Boogiepop Phantom has almost edged out Eva as my favourite anime. After I watch it a couple more times it probably will. Eva is a fantastic anime, and I believe it is vastly superior to RahXephon (which is a great anime in its own right), but it isn't perfect. I haven't actually watched any Eva in years.

It's like talking to a wall, so i'll just stop here.

I think you need to stop trolling Eva groups and accept that people exist who:
a) are well grounded in anime history
b) have seen an extensive collection of anime in their time
c) keep current with most of the major recent anime releases
d) are able to critically examine anime titles and compare their qualities
e) believe Eva to be an innovative and original series which they favour over all others

Despite what you may want to believe, it is possible for people to make an informed reasonable decision to consider Eva to be original and for it to be their favourite anime. RahXephon is not one of my favourite anime titles, but I don't question it being in your favourites list. I have issues with Cowboy Bebop as well, but again you don't see me berating you for having it as one of your favourites. I really think you need to ask yourself why exactly you post here in the way that you do. It is possible for people to rationally and completely reasonably like or dislike a series. That notion seems to be something that you haven't figured out yet.

Originally posted on: 02-Jun-2003, 05:20 GMT

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Postby Dual_Evolution [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:19 pm

A Quote from the director of Rahxephon " I watched a lot of robot shows when I was a teenager, and I wanted to see how I could create an old-style robot, one that has a face and expressions like Raideen, in current times. Those old shows look pretty rough now by comparison; I wanted to update their look and make the visuals more stylish."

So the similarity between Rah and Eva are those of the shows that influenced them. This thread is not about the “legality” of Eva or Rahxephon.

On a personal note; Their is no point in comparing series, in fact I would call it down right stupid. Why? Because anime isn't made to be compared to each other. They are made for to reason. 1. to make money 2. to express creative of the people behind them. I wonder with the ways some many people are temperamental about certain animes how they enjoy anime. You take a couple of series and hold them so close to your hear that you can't enjoy something new. How can you enjoy something when all your doing is comparing it to something that has NOTHING to do with what your watching. Just remember every time you watch a new anime watch it as if its your first, you'll have a hell of lot more fun.

P.S. There is no such thing as an original thought.

Originally posted on: 03-Jun-2003, 01:48 GMT

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Postby Quiddity [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:19 pm

I'm not suggesting that it is, and if you read my original posts you will see that I believe the manner in which Anno takes such a wide range of diverse ideas and puts them together is original.


Can you explain in more detail why you think the manner Anno brings these cliches together makes Eva original? Because as I've said before, I don't think these various things are that diverse in the first place and I don't think there's anything special (in originality terms, the show is obviously very good, one of my faves) about how they were used.

Originally posted on: 03-Jun-2003, 23:01 GMT

MDWigs [ANF]
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Postby MDWigs [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:19 pm

Check out my fifth post in this thread. You asked that question before and explained it there.

Also I am not suggesting that you must see his manner as unique, just that I personally do and that I am making that judgement not out of rabid fanboyness but from a well rounded anime background.

Originally posted on: 04-Jun-2003, 01:01 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:19 pm

BUMP!!!

This thread includes some discussion of NGE's sources of inspiration -- which are, of course, important things to bring up in the Commentary. And Wigs talks a lot in this one, which is always a good thing. Image

Originally posted on: 24-May-2004, 00:59 GMT

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Postby thx3876 [ANF] » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:20 pm

I was all into RahXephon until the ending. That ending just plain old-fashion sucked.

Originally posted on: 24-May-2004, 05:11 GMT


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