Are any of you following Ideon?

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Ark [ANF]
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Postby Ark [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:40 pm

Soluzar wrote:Ya know, until episode 34, I was thinking along kind of the same lines. You ain't seen nothing yet. Wait until you've see this episode, and then tell me the same, if you can.]
But I already know what the similarities are I just haven't seen them yet. My point is that they are few and concentrated at the end of both series unlike in RahXephon where the similarities to Eva are many and all over the place.

Originally posted on: 08.01.2006, 01:46 PM

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Postby Quiddity [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:40 pm

Ah, Ideon talk makes Quiddity happy.

Yes, episode 34 makes a pretty blatant observation about the true nature of the Ide although they have made some passing references to it earlier (end of ep 27 for example). And that is...

SPOILER! (highlight to read):That the Ide is in fact the entire 6th Civilization, hundreds of millions of people, evolved into a single perfect entity

Even though it doesn't want to admit it to Bes, the Ide is purposely putting the Earthlings and Buff Clan against each other by generating meteors to launch at both planets. And the fact that the whole point of the fighting (obtain or destroy the Giant God which possesses the infinite power Ide) is the Ide itself.

Bes comments that he'll go against the Ide's will if necessary. Interesting parallel to Shinji going against instrumentality in EOE. Will Bes be able to go against the Ide's will? Won't tell you! Image

It's a little repetative but is still very entertaining in contrast to something like Noir which is repetative and boring.Though I've felt that they haven't really done enough with the time so far. There's only six episodes left and the plot doesn't really seem to have developed much.
I'd agree that if there's one big flaw in Ideon, its that they don't handle their time good enough. There's too much concentrated in the last 6 episodes in comparison to the first 33 episodes and even then, the show pretty much blows up with a 'deus ex machina' ending due to it being cancelled. Luckily the movie fixes the ending. Its a lot like MS Gundam where many of the early eps can't come close to the later ones, reducing their re-watchability (even I admit that the first 10 eps of Ideon are way too slow)

That said, the last 6 episodes are a blast. The only real downer is ep 35, although even that one includes some great action (Buff Clan and the Earth Military launching an entire moon at the Ideon & Solo Ship)

However in terms of the EVA connection I haven't really seen one yet and as I understand it all that is really taken from Ideon are a couple of plot devices. It's literally just two things which really only come into play at the end of both series.

I'm not trying to hijack the thread by going off on a rant but it seems a false comparison to compare Eva's similarities with Ideon to Eva's similarities with RahXephon.
Well they're pretty big 'plot devices'! SPOILER! (highlight to read): Eva's themes of Instrumentality, Human Evolution, End of the World, Over the top gruesome deaths of beloved characters, and the need for kids to pilot the mecha(with much more of a reason than the teen suddenly finds a giant robot, so prevelent in anime) all key themes in Eva, were all done in Ideon. Plus calling the mecha a God, the Barrier/AT Field, tons of nudity, real life footage (although admittingly Eva used a heck of a lot more than Ideon did!) and Kasha's behavior is very similar to Asuka's.

This post from a discussion we had about Eva on AnimeOnDVD.com a while back probably says it better than I could although he gets it wrong about SPOILER! (highlight to read): Cosmo "choosing" to destroy the world, Cosmo did not "choose" to do what ended up occuring.

Basically, the premise of Ideon was that Earthlings on their space
colonisation conquest came across a planet that had many alien artifacts,
that's where they uncovered the mecha of Ideon. Shortly upon uncovering it,
another alien race came in and tried to take hold of Ideon, our hero, Cosmo
and his friends managed to make the Ideon move, and they fought against the aliens. Afterwards they gathered all the survivers and tried to ran away
from the aliens while the aliens continues to persue them.
Now, later we found that the aliens were in persude of Ideon because of the
promise of the mysterious power of Id, while some of them want the power to themselves, others also knew that the aliens that discovered the power of Id were destroied because of the power of Id. So inside there, they are
actually two groups torn between obtaining the power, and destroying Ideon.
(A parallel would be between SEELE and NERV in EVA).
Back to our heros, as they continues the battle, they discover that the
power of Id actually feeds on the souls and emotions of the pilots (geez
where have I seen that before ), and the more in danger the pilots becomes,
the more powerful Ideon becomes. They also found that Id is partically
sensitive to children and infants, and many times response to the fear of
them and help them fought off the enemies.
Finally coming to the end, there finally came the clincher. We were told
that the alien race that discovered Id did not in fact got destroied, but
rather after tapping into the true power of Id, they evolved to a soul-like
existance that became part of Id itself, where everyone can co-exist
peacefully. And that Ideon and Id where in fact leading both the Earthlings
and aliens into this bloody tag war of power to destory/evolve them all into
Id itself and rid the universe of hate and misunderstanding, and start
afresh! And with that our hero Cosmo, suffering from the trauma of losing
almost all his friends and love ones during this war, choose to obey the
will of Id, tapped into the true power of Ideon and actually destroied the
whole universe, and everyone died.
Finally, the viewers were treated to all the characters, Earthlings and the
aliens, in their soul-like form, floating towards the centre of universe and
watching over the new birth of the universe......

Now that I've pretty much summarized what happened in Ideon. It's not
difficult to see that the whole idea of EVA, Unit 1 as the key, the human
completion project, and the whole of the EVA movices etc were pretty much
the same as the themes in Ideon. Human completion project rids humans of
their AT Fields (psychological barrier) so that there is no more
misunderstanding between humans, hence people can evolve to a god-like
existance, compared to the idea of Ideon where Id using itself as a bait to
neutralise the universe of hate and misunderstanding by breaking down the
barrier between these people and let their souls lay bare to each other,
hence come together as one and become a spiritial existance.


Regardless, I've never made the argument that Eva is a ripoff of Ideon. Infact Eva is better than Ideon, no questions asked with me. Eva's a much more polished show that uses its time a lot better (although I've got quite a gripe with the time management in Eva, compared to early 80's mecha shows that wasted so much time on those battles? Can't compare them). But you can't denied that Eva was influenced by Ideon. And I don't deny that Rah was influenced by Eva. That said, any notion that Rah is a ripoff of Eva as a recent over the top fan tried to make with his website is utter nonsense. The vast, vast majority of that fan's similarities are utter garbage, as pointed out in that recent large thread here.

I made an attempt to watch "A Contact" some time ago but couldn't get into it at all, probably because of how poor the translation was, Prons said it was a bootleg, and I believe him. Do you guys plan on subbing both "A Contact" and "Be Invoked"?
Wasn't even aware there was an 'A Contact' bootleg out there (only one I know of is the series, 1-19). A Contact and Be Invoked will immediately follow the series. And luckily A Contact has already been fansubbed by someone (not to mention as a compilation movie a good 90-95% of the stuff in there was already translated in the series) so it should be real quick when that time comes. Be Invoked is another story, gotta take a while with that masterpiece...

Originally posted on: 08.01.2006, 07:30 PM

MagicianCamille [ANF]
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Postby MagicianCamille [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:40 pm

Quiddity wrote:Infact Eva is better than Ideon
You're fired.

And luckily A Contact has already been fansubbed by someone (not to mention as a compilation movie a good 90-95% of the stuff in there was already translated in the series) so it should be real quick when that time comes.
Why would it being fansubbed by somebody else make our release go any quicker?

Originally posted on: 08.01.2006, 07:48 PM

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Postby Sachiel03 [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:46 pm

Ive never seen the Ideon series myself,but i do know the experimental mecha in Eva Jet Alone was based on Red Alone from Ideon.

Originally posted on: 08.01.2006, 08:22 PM

Ark [ANF]
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Postby Ark [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:46 pm

Quiddity wrote:Regardless, I've never made the argument that Eva is a ripoff of Ideon. Infact Eva is better than Ideon, no questions asked with me. Eva's a much more polished show that uses its time a lot better (although I've got quite a gripe with the time management in Eva, compared to early 80's mecha shows that wasted so much time on those battles? Can't compare them). But you can't denied that Eva was influenced by Ideon. And I don't deny that Rah was influenced by Eva. That said, any notion that Rah is a ripoff of Eva as a recent over the top fan tried to make with his website is utter nonsense.
Like I said before I don't think that's a valid comparison.

The three or four similarities that Eva has with Ideon don't even effect most of the series.

I'm currently making my way through Rah (I'm up to 15) and the specific similarities keep jumping out at me. I'm not even looking for them I was actually hoping it might be good in its own right considering I spent money on it. I mean come on they actually managed to spread Liliel (Durac Sea angel) out into two seperate creatures (covering two episodes) in Rah.When Ayato killed that angel in orbit with the bow and arrow I nearly went into hysterics.I guess I should have been grateful that they at least changed the weapon.

Originally posted on: 08.01.2006, 08:59 PM

Quiddity [ANF]
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Postby Quiddity [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:46 pm

Instrumentality is directly from Ideon and you say it doesn't effect most of the series? C'mon! Many of the shows key points - mechas with souls, Ideon/Unit 01 as the key to everyone's plans, AT field, the need for kids to pilot the mecha, all were done in Ideon. Thats not grasping at straws like much of the RahXephon comparisons, those are instrumental parts of the show.

And the RahXephon killed a Dolem with a bow and arrow because that was from its main influence Brave Raideen, the show out 20 years before Eva.

Originally posted on: 08.02.2006, 12:43 AM

Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:46 pm

Ark wrote:But I already know what the similarities are I just haven't seen them yet. My point is that they are few and concentrated at the end of both series unlike in RahXephon where the similarities to Eva are many and all over the place.
You really don't know about this one. There's no way you could, really. It's something that most would know when they see it. However, I'm confident that you won't agree with us even after you've seen #34. If you don't see it, then you don't see it. That doesn't mean it's not there, althoug it doesn't prove that it is there either. Let's not get heavy duty on this one. You've said that you disagree, and I'll be intrigued to know if we disagree once the series is complete, but for now, I'm just interested in hearing from everyone. I just wanted to let you know that you might see a lot more, in a few weeks time.

Quiddity wrote:Many of the shows key points - mechas with souls, Ideon/Unit 01 as the key to everyone's plans, AT field, the need for kids to pilot the mecha, all were done in Ideon. Thats not grasping at straws like much of the RahXephon comparisons, those are instrumental parts of the show.
You're not going to convince Ark. The comparisons are subtle, which in the eyes of some renders them meaningless. You just have to look at the nature of the similarities he points out between Eva and RahXephon to understand that unless it's on the surface level, he won't acknowledge it.

I think in this case it's enough to be satisfied that everyone else (including Anno) knows that you and I are correct.

Originally posted on: 08.02.2006, 01:30 AM

Ark [ANF]
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Postby Ark [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:46 pm

Quiddity wrote:Instrumentality is directly from Ideon and you say it doesn't effect most of the series?
It doesn't effect the series.It only takes place in the film.

C'mon! Many of the shows key points - mechas with souls, Ideon/Unit 01 as the key to everyone's plans,
Again that only emerges in EoE.


AT field, the need for kids to pilot the mecha,
The Robot having a shield isn't really a convincing similarity.MechaGodzilla had a shield as well.That's like citing something on that stupid website that noticed both Meshima and Asuka had a yellow dress.By the way why isn't Meshima in it more she's totally cute? Anyway the shield isn't played on that much in Ideon.

Have they even mentioned that only kids can pilot it and how old is Moera?

Plus I've yet to see an anime where mechas aren't piloted by kids.

And the RahXephon killed a Dolem with a bow and arrow because that was from its main influence Brave Raideen, the show out 20 years before Eva.
My point was that the Dolem looked very similar to Arael, what Haruka said about it was almost identical to what Misato said about Arael and it was taken out in a way very similar to Arael.

Originally posted on: 08.02.2006, 10:37 AM

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Postby CrossboneGundam [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:46 pm

Yeah, End of Evangelion has nothing at all to do with the TV series, Anno pulled it out his *** after all was said and done, and it doesn't reflect in any way his original intentions for the ending, and it certainly wasn't meant to be an alternate viewpoint of the same stuff that happened in the last two episodes of Eva!

Image

Well, at any rate, Ideon wins.

Originally posted on: 08.02.2006, 10:54 AM

Tidusauron12 [ANF]
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Postby Tidusauron12 [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:46 pm

^Evangelion!!!!

(I'm only to episode 6 of Ideon.)

Originally posted on: 08.02.2006, 11:10 AM

Quiddity [ANF]
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Postby Quiddity [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:46 pm

It doesn't effect the series.It only takes place in the film.
They start talking about Instrumentality in Eva as early as episode 2. Remember?

Again that only emerges in EoE.
Me thinks you need to watch Eva again if you think those things are only relevent in the movies.

The Robot having a shield isn't really a convincing similarity.MechaGodzilla had a shield as well.That's like citing something on that stupid website that noticed both Meshima and Asuka had a yellow dress.By the way why isn't Meshima in it more she's totally cute? Anyway the shield isn't played on that much in Ideon.
First off, the barrier protecting the Ideon and Solo Ship is mentioned in pretty much every single episode.

And second yes, Mishima is totally cute. You'll see her more towards the end, I think. Its been a while since I've watched Rah.

My point was that the Dolem looked very similar to Arael, what Haruka said about it was almost identical to what Misato said about Arael and it was taken out in a way very similar to Arael.
Actually, it did not look like Arael. Arael was a giant glowing bird like angel with huge wings. Arpeggio looked like a giant red crystal with a woman at the center. Images below.
Image
Image

And RahXephon shot Arpeggio with a bow and arrow while Arael was killed by Rei throwing a lance at it. Not the same.

The only similarity is that they were both airborn enemies.

Have they even mentioned that only kids can pilot it and how old is Moera?

Plus I've yet to see an anime where mechas aren't piloted by kids.
You've really gotta watch the show then. Kids piloting the Ideon is a very important part of the show because the Ide reacts strongest to the young (You've got to have seen it react to Piper Lou multiple times right?). The similarity to Eva is this link between the mecha and child pilot that is needed to bring the Ideon to its strongest potential. Like in Eva where the Evas can only be piloted by the children because of their special connection to them. Thats the difference, in many mecha shows, like Gundam, you could put an adult in there with no effect.

And Moera is a teenager. They're all teenagers or younger piloting it, except Gije in these last few episodes.

Originally posted on: 08.02.2006, 08:40 PM

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Postby PronsAmuro [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:46 pm

Ornette wrote:I made an attempt to watch "A Contact" some time ago but couldn't get into it at all, probably because of how poor the translation was, Prons said it was a bootleg, and I believe him. Do you guys plan on subbing both "A Contact" and "Be Invoked"?
I was in general reffering to the old tape fansub, I don't know much about it other than they subbed most of the names wrong (Baff Clan). I don't really remember saying it was a poor translation, but either way, our version wil lbe better Image.

Speaking of Quid, you should update your page to sy we're up to 34 now, instead of 20 Image

Originally posted on: 08.02.2006, 08:50 PM

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Postby Quiddity [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:46 pm

I was in general reffering to the old tape fansub, I don't know much about it other than they subbed most of the names wrong (Baff Clan). I don't really remember saying it was a poor translation, but either way, our version wil lbe better .

Speaking of Quid, you should update your page to sy we're up to 34 now, instead of 20
Ah, I've got that one. Its not a bootleg, its from Old School Anime Fansubs, or something like that. They do get 'Buff Clan' wrong, and there are a few bad lines, but for the most part I thought they did a good job.

Originally posted on: 08.02.2006, 08:55 PM

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Postby PronsAmuro [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:46 pm

Quiddity wrote:Ah, I've got that one. Its not a bootleg, its from Old School Anime Fansubs, or something like that. They do get 'Buff Clan' wrong, and there are a few bad lines, but for the most part I thought they did a good job.
Here we go, clairtiy Image.

Of course, we'll be the only ones to sub Be Invoked, which was #18 on the animage Top 100 Anime of All Time list a year or so ago. Image

Originally posted on: 08.02.2006, 08:56 PM

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Postby MagicianCamille [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:47 pm

Barf Clay!

Originally posted on: 08.02.2006, 09:50 PM

Levon [ANF]
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Postby Levon [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:47 pm

Only seen the first 10 episode of Ideon because after a while episodes wouldn't run good on my PC because of odd resolution. Why is the resolution 720 x 540? All the fansubs I download are 640 x 480. Even the .mkv fansubs like Captain Harlock are 640 x 480, and I can run them just fine. Now my PC sucks which is why. So I won't be able to watch the show for the time being. I did convert an episode for DVD, for some reason it took like 10 hours to convert just one episode, maybe its because of the odd resolution because it normally takes 3-5 hours to convert a fansub episode. I also couldn't set it to center keep aspect ratio because of the resolution, this is the only time this has ever happened.

Originally posted on: 08.02.2006, 11:52 PM

Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:47 pm

I'd assume that the odd choice of resolution is down to the person who made our raw episodes. You lose quite a bit of quality if you try to convert to a different resolution. With a show as old as Ideon, we're limited to what we can obtain. The aspect ratio of 720x540 is identical to that of 640x480, though.

Since I don't really have any part in that side of things, I can't really say for sure what the reason is. Prons could tell you better.

Originally posted on: 08.03.2006, 12:09 AM

MagicianCamille [ANF]
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Postby MagicianCamille [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:47 pm

You have GOT to get a better computer.

Originally posted on: 08.03.2006, 12:12 AM

Levon [ANF]
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Postby Levon [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:47 pm

IndeedImage Although if I can run most .mvk files you'd think I'd be able to run these.

Originally posted on: 08.03.2006, 12:31 AM

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Postby Van [ANF] » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:47 pm

Quiddity wrote:Regardless, I've never made the argument that Eva is a ripoff of Ideon. Infact Eva is better than Ideon, no questions asked with me. Eva's a much more polished show that uses its time a lot better
QFT

Btw I noticed on the shinn getter site you said your fav animes are Eva + Ideon, prefer Eva to Escaflowne these days?

Originally posted on: 08.03.2006, 01:46 AM


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