Is NGE in Accord with the Classic "Hero's Journey"

[Eva Yojimbo]

Since someone posted this somewhere else and there's already a topic here that roughly deals with NGE in this manner (Shinji Appreciation page 11), I thought I'd bring it up. Article can be found HERE.

[quote="The Hero’s Journey:
A Campbellian Look at the Metaphorical Path to Personal Transformation"]By Lynne Milum
Copyright © 2003 by Lynne Milum. All rights reserved.

What is mythology?

Have you ever contemplated what makes a great story? How is it that humankind has generated so many great stories throughout history? Why does the reader feel aligned with the heroes of these stories in such a way that the stories go beyond the printed word and impact our own lives back here in "the real world"?

While many people believe that myths are stories that are "untrue" or even "lies," in fact, resonant mythologies are metaphors that provide us with symbols of a life we long to experience. To read a myth literally is to miss its higher truth.

Mythological narratives may or may not be based in fact. Myths that are temporal will cease to inspire over time and will die out. The perennial myths, however, are those which persevere and project a timeless truth which point the way to our ultimate destiny. To pursue this destiny is The Hero’s Journey.

A Campbellian Analysis of the Hero’s Journey

There are three major phases to great stories in mythology, based on Joseph Campbell’s work and documented in The Hero with a Thousand Faces.[1] These phases are Separation, Initiation and Return. Key story elements as presented by Campbell follow.


Separation:
Separation is the culmination of a person awakening from a world of drudgery and despair to pursue a higher calling.

The initial step is a ‘Call to Adventure’ where the heroic figure is made aware of a place beyond the world he has known his whole life.

[Sailor Star Dust]

I think this is interesting and that The Hero's Journey can fit to an extent with Eva; the main difference is of course Eva intentionally doesn't have any resolution with it's ending(s).

My only other comment is I think it's interesting just how fitting that goddess/mother image is with how Lilith and Yui are. (Same with Misato being Shinji's guide while Asuka's the temptress.)

[Sharaz Destler]

My thoughts? Let it cook for a while. You might be able to come up with a few more links.

And don't worry about a thing, Yojimbo. Things like NGE practically exist to be over-analyzed.

[THE Hal E. Burton 9000]

in some ways, yeah, there are a few areas that seem to correlate, Shinji could also be remembered as the "reluctant" type of hero, though I think most would see him as more "anti-hero" than hero

but for the most part however, the classical/mythical treatment of the basic narrative, the "monomyth", doesn't really fit with Evangelion

it's just too "non-Western" in source and execution

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Anti-hero? Lolwut? The Punisher is an anti-hero, Deadpool is an anti-hero, Deathstroke is an anti-hero. Shinji is just a poor schmuck stuck somewhere no one deserves to be. Not someone running around doing questionable deeds for the greater good.

[Eva Yojimbo]

Anti-hero? Lolwut?

Anti-heroes don't have to be of the types you listed. Copying from Wikipedia: "In fiction, an anti-hero is a protagonist who is lacking the traditional heroic attributes and qualities, and instead possesses character traits that are antithetical to heroism."

it's just too "non-Western" in source and execution

Japan has been Westernized for a long time, and the "hero's journey" has surely been present in their narrative art for a long time. Though there are numerous touches in NGE that are much more representative of classic Asian art than the traditional Western narrative.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Shinji could also be remembered as the "reluctant" type of hero, though I think most would see him as more "anti-hero" than hero.

I've heard Shinji described as this; I think it fits him in some ways.

...Then again it was probably from Wikipedia or something like that.

Ah, just noticed Evayojimbo's post.

"In fiction, an anti-hero is a protagonist who is lacking the traditional heroic attributes and qualities, and instead possesses character traits that are antithetical to heroism."

Not running wanting to run away but still doing so in some form (several times in the series)? Check. Feeling like he has no other self-worth then piloting? Yep. At the end of it all, feeling absolutely miserable because of lack of self-worth instead of believing in himself or some other way a typical hero would act? Check.

I always saw Shinji as being something of an antihero myself.

[Defectron]

The hero may encounter the negative side of woman – ‘Woman as Temptress.’ In this scenario, the hero finds himself occupied with selfish pleasures. The ease with which the hero falls into temptation places the path to enlightenment in peril. While the purified hero will be repulsed by these offerings, the struggling hero must soar beyond the sin and despair, to regain his path.

For some reason I kept thinking of Shinji whacking off when I read this.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

and instead possesses character traits that are antithetical to heroism.

Oh so every normal person is an anti-hero. That is a retarded definition. No one, and I mean no one, in the real world comes anywhere close to a fictional hero. The reason for that is their fearless personalities are exagerated fakes.

[Eva Yojimbo]

No one, and I mean no one, in the real world comes anywhere close to a fictional hero.

We're discussing fictional devices and terms so I don't see the point in bringing reality into the discussion. Traditionally, hero characterizations are those that highlight the parts of humanity deemed "good" by society and culture. And even the typical flawed hero usually faces his "flaw" as another conflict to overcome and grows and changes in the end.

The characters in NGE are anti-heroes precisely because Anno treats them as humans and puts them in situations where they're forced to reveal their flaws to us which, by contrast with typical hero narratives, turns them into "anti-heroes". Anno himself said that the characters in NGE aren't heroes. And since they are partaking in a warped version of a "heroes journey" they're either heroes or anti-heroes - I'm not sure if there's an in-between in this context.

Read more HERE and you'll see the typical definition coincided with what I posted.

Don't get your association with the term confused with its actual meaning.

[THE Hal E. Burton 9000]

IMO I think you're missing the point, AEF

it's the fact that Shinji is put in the role to be teh "hero" and the fact that he doesn't really rise to the occassion and the fact he is willing to basically "let the world go to hell in a headbasket" solely on the basis that he is "too scared" or whatever

it is his feelings and ultimate acts of selfishness in the name of "being a coward" when he is not expected to be is what makes him somewhat comparable to "anti-hero"

No one, and I mean no one, in the real world comes anywhere close to a fictional hero.

WOW, all I will say about this is that I now know there is someone in this forum that is more cynical than even me

Japan has been Westernized for a long time, and the "hero's journey" has surely been present in their narrative art for a long time.

I would agree that the stories of the samurai and shogun are EXACTLY in line with the hero's journey/monomyth, but IMO Evangelion is not, at least a whole or even in majority

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Don't get your association with the term confused with its actual meaning.

I really don't care what it's supposed actual meaning is. It's a matter of perspective. Not everyone we'd consider a hero is considered a hero by everyone and no one is wrong in that judgement. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter and so forth. No one in NGE strikes me as an anti-hero in any way.

[Eva Yojimbo]

I really don't care what it's supposed actual meaning is.

You should care since that's what we're talking about. You can't discuss what fits into a category if you don't know the meaning/definition of the category in question.

I would agree that the stories of the samurai and shogun are EXACTLY in line with the hero's journey/monomyth, but IMO Evangelion is not, at least a whole or even in majority

NGE seems to accept many of the beginning stages of the HJ but then rejects its latter parts. This makes sense and is keeping in line with NGE's formal design of the first half being "set-up" (playing up the cliches, forms, etc.) and the second half being "subversion" (tearing down the cliches, forms, etc.).

[Anonymous_Evafan]

I find the category's flawed in general. It's not as simple as writing something in a book makes it fact. Some people consider Bin Laden a hero while we consider him a heartless murder. Unlike most people in this country I will not claim that my perspective is better than theirs. This is the true nature of the world we'd rather pretend is not the case. Everything is a matter of perspective.

[Reichu]

Anno himself said that the characters in NGE aren't heroes.

Although some of them manage to be an heroes. [/requisite lame joke]

Japan has been Westernized for a long time

I can't speak authoritatively on this or anything, but Japan seems to be stalwartly maintaining its Eastern core despite superficial appearances. (Well, maybe the up-and-coming slacker generation will do away with this, I have no idea...)

For some reason I kept thinking of Shinji whacking off when I read this.

.........

My only other comment is I think it's interesting just how fitting that goddess/mother image is with how Lilith and Yui are.

The mother-goddess thing is one of the oldest tropes around, isn't it?

Also, I agree with the points targeted at AEF.

[Eva Yojimbo]

I find the category's flawed in general.

You keep using reality to judge the flaws of a fictional term: Why? This isn't about a relative philosophy, it's about fictional depiction of characters and, in particular, heroes and anti-heroes as common fictional creations.

I can't speak authoritatively on this or anything, but Japan seems to be stalwartly maintaining its Eastern core despite superficial appearances.

There certainly still seems to be a very strong sense of tradition in Japan and the Eastern world in general. However, Westernization of Japan can be seen in their art going all the way back to early Ozu and Kurosawa (40s) and the majority of their artistic output is drawing more and more from Western traditions. That's why it's nice to see modern Japanese directors (Koreeda and Shinkai are two good examples) using classic Asian techniques.

The mother-goddess thing is one of the oldest tropes around, isn't it?

Surely. But I'm not sure if I've ever seen it handled quite like in NGE. They really don't paint its existence specifically until EoE when they all come together.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

You keep using reality to judge the flaws of a fictional term: Why?

Cause it's not as fictional as you'd like it to be. What would you call someone that arbitrarily kills a serial killer? How about someone that kills supporters of an oppressive regime? Sadam had people try to kill him. They wouldn't be heros, a term we have a horrid love affair with. They aren't monsters either. So then what are they? It may not have been meant to be applied to those situations but it fits them reguardless.

This isn't about a relative philosophy

Ah but it is. Modern media has made it so by tossing around the word "hero" for raitings. We have to alter all our view accordingly because of this since nothing means what it used to. Don't you just love the media?

[Vegeta 20XX]

"In fiction, an anti-hero is a protagonist who is lacking the traditional heroic attributes and qualities, and instead possesses character traits that are antithetical to heroism."

Shinji possesses these in spades. He prefers to run away from his problems, he whines frequently, and isn't very well liked.

[Reichu]

He prefers to run away from his problems

Check.

he whines frequently

Less often than you think.

and isn't very well liked.

In the show itself? Shinji is well-liked, although he suffers from "everybody hates me" self-delusions.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Shinji does have several heroic deeds under his belt. More than 99.9% of people that age would. He's not a hero, an anti-hero, or a villian. He isn't anything but a normal person trying to find his way through a world that vurtually abandoned him. Trying to place him in any catergory is a gross simplification of him as a whole.