What are the "Adams"?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby Reichu » Thu May 27, 2010 4:35 pm

View Original PostJinroh wrote:Yeah BUT... (snip)

What, no "forbidden fusion of Adam and Lilith" 4U? There also might be additional weird things going on. (For example, the "Fruit of Life" still hasn't been explained, but whatever it is it might have been somehow incorporated into Eva-01 by merging with Zeruel's liquified remains or something. Who honestly knows.) Whatever the case, that whole conversation should probably go to a thread like this if it's to continue. (I say this only to keep the forum as coherent as possible! -o-; )

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Postby Jinroh » Thu May 27, 2010 5:04 pm

Yeah I know it's messy, it's going in all directions, sorry about that. But thanks for the replies.

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Postby AuraTwilight » Fri May 28, 2010 1:31 pm

Is there anything in mythology about gods or divine beings who get split in four?
\

I don't know about four, exactly, but I know the trope about entities dividing like this is ASSLOADS over the place. Why four? Well, Four is Death.
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Postby SaltyJoe » Fri May 28, 2010 2:38 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Is there anything in mythology about gods or divine beings who get split in four?

I don't know about that, but there are the Four Evangelists who are often depicted as four angelic aspects sitting before the throne of God. Hmmm... Evangelists...

Newest fanwank: Kaworu carries the soul of a "supreme" Adam, and the other four Children are somehow related to the four Adams that appeared during Second Impact. This would mean that Rei doesn't carry the soul of Lilith.. or she has two souls... ugh, i don't know. But Kaworu piloting the "True God" Eva (if the Mark.06 is the "True God") and then having this "Gathering of Children" with four other pilots (i guess?) is suspicious.

EDIT:
Hey, what if all the Children (except Kaworu) carry two souls? Their own (in Rei's case that means Lilith's) and a dormant, Adams-derived one?
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Postby Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion » Fri May 28, 2010 2:49 pm

this "Gathering of Children" with four other pilots (i guess?) is suspicious.

I did recall a pentagram in the preview so you may be on to something there.
Hey, what if all the Children (except Kaworu) carry two souls? Their own (in Rei's case that means Lilith's) and a dormant, Adams-derived one?

I really doubt it 'cause all you need for a Third (or in this case Fourth) Impact is Adam + Adam Clone = Adam 2.0: You Will (F**king) Die :lol:
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Postby SaltyJoe » Fri May 28, 2010 2:56 pm

View Original PostTwin Drive Sigma Aquarion wrote:I did recall a pentagram in the preview so you may be on to something there.

Octagram. The star has eight points. And it's within a circle that is within a square. But besides: Kaworu-> four shadows-> gathering of Children. Seems pretty obvious that those are the other four pilots... so of course, it will be something else.
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Postby Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion » Fri May 28, 2010 2:59 pm

Octagram. The star has eight points. And it's within a circle that is within a square. But besides: Kaworu-> four shadows-> gathering of Children. Seems pretty obvious that those are the other four pilots... so of course, it will be something else.
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Postby ZapX » Fri May 28, 2010 3:03 pm

Here's the sigil in question, for reference. Can any of our occultists tell us where it's from?
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Postby AuraTwilight » Sat May 29, 2010 2:46 pm

View Original PostSaltyJoe wrote:I don't know about that, but there are the Four Evangelists who are often depicted as four angelic aspects sitting before the throne of God. Hmmm... Evangelists...

Newest fanwank: Kaworu carries the soul of a "supreme" Adam, and the other four Children are somehow related to the four Adams that appeared during Second Impact. This would mean that Rei doesn't carry the soul of Lilith.. or she has two souls... ugh, i don't know. But Kaworu piloting the "True God" Eva (if the Mark.06 is the "True God") and then having this "Gathering of Children" with four other pilots (i guess?) is suspicious.

EDIT:
Hey, what if all the Children (except Kaworu) carry two souls? Their own (in Rei's case that means Lilith's) and a dormant, Adams-derived one?


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Identify this image?

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Postby 0x2eleven » Mon May 31, 2010 5:37 am

Can anyone identify where this image is from? I remember it surfacing sometime after 1.0 came out, but I have watched 1.11 and 2.22 multiple times and can't remember seeing it anywhere in either movie.

Image

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Postby Azathoth » Mon May 31, 2010 6:19 am

It's from the preview for 2.0 at the end of 1.11.

It's not in either movie, actually, but it does give a better view of the ADAMS.
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Postby rilocay » Mon May 31, 2010 8:08 am

It actually is, suss 26mins 49sec on 2.22 when it show's Misato and 2nd impact, with all the "sketchy" animation. So even if it's not exact same frame, the concept of the image is there, same angels/adams, same positions, just more intense framing. It definatley seems like something different happened this time round!

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Postby Delular » Mon May 31, 2010 12:44 pm

Lol.
I mentioned the different cores in my thread.!

[url]http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=9175[/url]
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Postby 0x2eleven » Mon May 31, 2010 1:48 pm

[quote=rilocay]It actually is, suss 26mins 49sec on 2.22 when it show's Misato and 2nd impact, with all the "sketchy" animation. So even if it's not exact same frame, the concept of the image is there, same angels/adams, same positions, just more intense framing.[/quote]

It's not the same thing. Thanks though.

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:It's from the preview for 2.0 at the end of 1.11


Thanks for the help.
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Postby Reichu » Mon May 31, 2010 3:45 pm

The four shadows at the "gathering" probably ties into all of this somehow.

Since I watched Little Buddha recently, I'll suggest an alternative to (or expansion upon) Salty's "two souls per child" thing. So how about:

At 2I, Adam was fractured in every way conceivable. Body, soul, you name it. Four new energy beings were generated, featuring four shards of Adam's soul, each acting as some "aspect" of the original. Together they would have brought on the end of the world, but stuff happened. Adam exploded into blood everywhere. The four Adam-lettes reverted into physical beings, somehow separated from the soul shards in the process, and were thrown all over the place.

"The children of preordained fate" have the Adam soul-shards possibly salvaged on purpose into volunteer human mothers following 2I. As a result of gestation, the shards have been "filled in" with human 'spirit', but they're still Adam at the core.

This provides some sort of explanation for, among other things, the much-added emphasis on the ATF emanating from the entry plug and not just the Eva's core. It can also explain obnoxious things like why pilots seem so terribly swappable; they're all engaging in the same sort of hax Kaworu was doing in the original.

Kaworu would possess the "central" piece of Adam, as mentioned.

Also, does Kaji's lolwtf line make any more sense within a "four Adams = impact" framework?

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Postby Teague » Mon May 31, 2010 7:44 pm

When 'four' and 'souls' are used in the same context, I can't help but think of the Japanese concept of 'mitama', the four aspects of a living soul,

Ara-Mitama: Violent and coercive.
Nigi-Mitama: gentle and pacifying.
Saki-Mitama: imparts blessings.
Kushi-Mitama: causes mysterious transformations.

Saki and kushi are considered to be the two parts of Nigi-mitama, however they are still referred to as four things collectively.

The notion of a 'violent soul' and a 'gentle soul' was used in Shinto to explain why nature kami would sometimes impart blessings (bountiful harvest, cure disease, etc) or lash out for little or no reason (natural disasters, plague, famine etc), it depended on which of the mitama was 'manifesting' at the time, so to speak. To grossly oversimplify, shinto saw all things as being inherently bipolar.

Now how can this be related back to Rebuild?

Well, one is the 'Adam split in four' theory, which then would imply each of the 1/4 Adams would behave according to the archetype implied by each mitama,

Second, one could correlate the mitama to different characters, most likely the pilots.

Ara-Mitama would be Asuka. She's the most blood-lustful and violent, in both her behavior and her actions. What's more, in both Old Century and Rebuild, she always goes down fighting to the bitter end.

Nigi-Mitama would then be Rei. She's the most passive, and she rarely acts in violence outside of piloting. Even when she does, she tends to take a passive role; holding the shield in the battle against Ramiel, and restraining Sahaquiel so Asuka could land the finishing blow. What's more, her primary motivation for much of 2.0 is 'pacifying' the tension between Shinji and Gendo. Not the mention the whole 'red oni, blue oni' thing going on between Asuka and Rei.

Saki-Mitama could be considered Mari. She aids in the battle against Zeruel, as well as saving Shinji's life. In addition, she reveals to NERV Japan 'BEAST mode'. Finally, she is speculated to be a non-human entity, possibly even a FAR, which would make her something in a position to give out blessings.

Kushi-Mitama would then be Shinji. His presence causes changes in many of the people around him; Rei begins to act more human-like, and Asuka starts to consider other people more. Then on the supernatural scale, Shinji undergoes a 'mysterious transformation' in the fight against Zeruel, achieving an angel-state with Shogouki, transforming Zeruel back into Rei and then joining with her inside 01, and one way or another they are now in an 'unknown state' inside 01 together.

But what, if anything, does this mean? I have no idea, I'm just fanwaking.
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Postby davial81 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:37 pm

Interesting theory man. Just one question, and I'm new around here so I'm not yet familiar with certain terms.

What do you mean with Mary being a FAR? What is FAR? Again, apologies for my ignorance :think:

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Postby Legendary » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:43 pm

"First Ancestral Race", the entities which distributed (according to NGE2) seven seeds of life and whatnot across the universe, and who never intended Angels and Lilin to coexist.

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Postby davial81 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:03 pm

JA! It never crossed my mind, not for a split second. I am familiar with the "First Ancestral Race" concept but not with the acronym.

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Postby Monk Ed » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:30 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:The four shadows at the "gathering" probably ties into all of this somehow. (etc)

Dude(tte) that is like, the most coherent and convincing explanation I've seen. So many things I had been wondering about since the first movie snap into place. Like, all the focus in the first movie by the Powers That Be on Shinji as a person. ("We will have Rei move closer to him.") And it at least kinda helps explain why crazy stuff happens when Rei (Lilith reincarnate?) and Shinji (Adam reincarnate?) merge. It even explains (unlike the original) why all the pilots have to be born after 2I.

And most importantly, if Shinji is some kind of reincarnation, then Kaworu's mysterious lines about knowing Shinji from before also make sense.

It all makes... almost too much sense. Like you stumbled upon The Key entirely on accident.

You are good at this whole fanwanking thing.

The mitama concept only adds to it all. :chinscratch:
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