What are the "Adams"?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby Combs » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:24 pm

Adams = the souls of Shinji, Rei, Kaworu and Yui

But Rei = Lilith's soul.
Kaworu = Adam's soul.

So as Adam causes second impact, the souls of Adam, Lilith, A mother who already existed and her unborn child are present?

Or are you just making the comparison? Rei looking down in that screenshot resembles the Adamim on the second to left.
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Postby Synapsid » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:30 pm

^
What if it's Bardiel tainted Asuka rather than Yui?
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Postby Combs » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:39 pm

Synapsid, are you implying that this is a different Asuka (teh Soryu)? How would the time you're comparing it to be any difference to the soul?

But that still leaves us this dillema. Its too far fetched that the other two are Mari and the pilot of Unit-08. (Hopefully this isn't redundant by the time 3.0 comes around)

But what about the black hole that appears over tokyo 3? Do the ADAMS come back for that?
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Postby Lucretius » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:51 pm

I think the "Adams" are just embryonic Angels released by Second Impact. *shrugs*

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

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Postby Reichu » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:40 am

Lucretius wrote:I think the "Adams" are just embryonic Angels released by Second Impact. *shrugs*

I wonder how well the presence of the four cross-shaped explosions (which we've seen accompany the deaths of Angels and Evas) jives with this...

Considering so much is still completely unknown, I'm a wee bit skeptical about arkiel's whole proposal.

- No data on any entity directly corresponding to Adam from NGE. (And, accordingly, where the Angels come from, or Kaworu's nature.)
- No data on chalk outline of giant.
- No information on what the Moon coffins are.
- No info on Moon Giant / Eva-06's nature. (Might be some in untranslated sections of the film.)
- No info on Eva-01/Lilith connection (Ditto.)
- Etc.

I'm not sure I would look too deeply into the Shinji's eyes thing. Eva-01's eyes are glowing red this time around, and, you know, when you get too close to your Eva, weird stuff starts happening to you...

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Postby arkiel » Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:31 pm

Well, if it was done only so Shinji and Unit-01 would have the same eyes, they still gave him the exact same hue as Ayanami, or close enough to it that we can't tell the difference on a camrip.

Always been emphasis on eye color in the movies. Scene in hospital in 1.0(1.11) where Shinji's blue eyes and Rei's red eyes are the only thing with color.
Anyway: Rei
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And before someone asks, yeah, his eyes are that color on the other side of I call "Death's Door" XD They're that color inside Unit-01, though you can only really notice when he's pushing through, and only for a frame or two.

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Postby Reichu » Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:44 pm

Again -- with Eva/pilot weirdness, I should think folks would be much more hesitant to jump to conclusions here. Rebuild seems to really take the "you are what's happening to your Eva" stuff a step further than the original show.

Needless to say, Eva-01's skin is white this time around. (I don't think they've revealed what her normal eye color is, though.) What's happening between Eva-01 and Shinji at the end of 2.0 hasn't quite been elaborated upon yet. Seems a bit more parsimonious to first go for the explanation that it's a weird synch situation than "Shinji has the soul of a white giant who blew up or whatever at 2I -- and, BTW, so does his mom". (And, yeah, the script does refer to the Adams as "giants".)

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Postby arkiel » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:57 pm

Just noticing the Adam that appears closest to Eva-normal, the one with two eyes and an unadorned core? The lines defining the core appear insubstantial, like the eyes of the other Adam. Other cores appear to have stricter barrier definition.

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Postby Reichu » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:32 pm

Don't think you'll be able to demonstrate much with a still. The original cut isn't exactly static; the amount of definition in various areas of the shot presumably changes from frame to frame. (The TV trailer doesn't help much here, since it only provides a split-second's worth of the total cut.)

tl;dr: Wait for BD before overanalyzing.

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Postby Maximilian » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:24 am

Judging by the color of the eyes and cores in the Adams picture compared to the background, I think it's pretty obvious that there are "holes" where those things should be. I.E. there are no eyes to begin with, let alone red eyes that somehow correspond to characters who the plot basically disprove as likely candidates as Adam clones.

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Postby Joseph the PRPD » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:56 am

I thought there would be a whole big sequence on the "Adams+" but we only see it in Misato's flashback. We might see more into it in 3.0/4.0.
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Postby schismatics » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:28 am

Joseph the PRPD wrote:I thought there would be a whole big sequence on the "Adams+" but we only see it in Misato's flashback. We might see more into it in 3.0/4.0.


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Postby Reichu » Thu May 27, 2010 3:20 pm

Sorry this is long. I should add pictures so more people will read it.

Just some thoughts on "Adams" and 2I that popped into my head... Wild speculation, of course. Credit goes to various other wild speculations that are incorporated / inspired this. (I know I stole from of it from Legendary's 3.0 fic.) Apologies if some of this has already been suggested verbatim; it's hard to keep track of everything.

The "Adams" haven't really been explained at all, and the term still has only appeared in the 2.0 preview, as well. They're really holding out on us! But a lot of interesting ideas have been put forth, and maybe some of them will turn out to be right.

The whole idea of four Adams is terribly confusing, but we could, in fact, still have "the" Adam in this continuity. It's notable that the Adam embryo is absent so far. While some have suggested that Nebuchadnezzar's Key is the same thing, I'm more inclined to think that the key is a completely new and quite possibly entirely unrelated element.

Perhaps the Adam embryo was never delivered to Gendo because, quite simply, Adam did not revert to an embryo in this version. Instead, both she and the Spear used on her "split" in four.

This still would have involved a massive catastrophe resulting in the original Adam's destruction, which, given NME mechanics, would have Adam destabilizing and splattering into blood everywhere -- apparently so magnificently that some of it wound up on the Moon. And that's a LOT of liquid, too; perhaps Adam turned into a giant before her destruction, a la Lilith in EoE, which resulted in enough body fluid to inundate and pollute the world's oceans as well.

Whatever the case, the incident would have sent the four "aspects" of Adam off, apparently each accompanied by a Spear. One was implanted into the Moon by sheer force and had to be excavated; this became Eva-06. Another was washed onto a shore somewhere and taken away to Nerv HQ along with its Spear, which was used on Lilith. The other two -- no idea.

Obviously there aren't enough Adams to account for the number of Evas. Going by the ideas presented so far, Nerv can format an Adam into an Eva directly (Eva-06), but Gendo and Fuyutsuki also mention that Eva-06 is being constructed differently from other Evas. Perhaps directly converting an Adam is not the norm, and the other Adams were somehow cannibalized to produce the number of Evas we end up with.

Whatever the case, each Eva still seems to be treated as equally potent as an individual Adam -- at least, if that rather persuasive theory about the Vatican Treaty's "no more than three Evas active at a time, sorry" policy is on the money. In other words, four Evas can't be out at the same time because the UN is afraid of Adam being recreated by four Evas coming together.

Whether Eva-01 has attachments to Lilith this time around is a complete unknown, but the fact that she has a "third eye" in her god form associates her with one of the Adams. This might indicate that things are different this time around. Perhaps Eva-01 is a direct conversion of the "three-eyed" Adam, whereas Eva-06 is a direct conversion of the one with six orbs around the core (you know... six... get it?). The other Evas were indirectly created from the other two. (Or perhaps one is still at large!) This puts Eva-01 and Eva-06 on equal ground, which would make sense, since there's a kind of "dark twin" thing being suggested through Eva-06's design.

That's all I got right now.
Last edited by Reichu on Thu May 27, 2010 5:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Jinroh » Thu May 27, 2010 3:37 pm

About these Adams, I still have that "frozen" second impact landscape in mind, when Fuyutsuki and Gendo look at it from space.

Do we have more details about that? How comes the explosion is "frozen" like that? And there are still four crosses right in the middle of the hole...

Could it mean it is still in standby and could eventually resume?

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Postby Reichu » Thu May 27, 2010 3:48 pm

I dunno if this should become a general 2I thread, buuuttt... What comes to mind after reading your post is Ritsuko's comment about Eva-01's 3I being a 'continuation' of 2I, or picking up where it left off. Perhaps if we were to look at the South Pole again, the vortex would no longer be there...? (Then again, Ritsuko could just be speaking into totally figurative terms.)

As for why it's just kind of frozen at the South Pole -- beats me, man. (I'm resisting the obvious joke.)
Last edited by Reichu on Thu May 27, 2010 4:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion » Thu May 27, 2010 3:55 pm

As for why it's just kind of frozen at the South Pole -- beats me, man.

Maybe it's their life absorbing masters requiring spiritia to properly awaken them and Lilith is the only significant source of it. That and maybe the Lances are powered by Anima Spiritia. :lol:

But in all serious maybe the four of them are four personalities to one entity.
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Postby Jinroh » Thu May 27, 2010 4:01 pm

Man I didn't even see the joke at first. I seriously need some sleep.

What you said though is interesting and could be a good idea... But then it would also need shogoki to be adam-made to work. (it would have to follow the theory of your previous post)

It's frustrating, it's just like the first series. The more it goes on, the more there are unanswered questions.

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Postby Reichu » Thu May 27, 2010 4:12 pm

View Original PostJinroh wrote:What you said though is interesting and could be a good idea... But then it would also need shogoki to be adam-made to work. (it would have to follow the theory of your previous post)

They've already visually suggested a connection between Eva-01 and one of the Adams, so that probably counts for something.

View Original PostTwin Drive Sigma Aquarion wrote:But in all serious maybe the four of them are four personalities to one entity.

Yeah, that's kind of what I'm going for. Adam being split into four "aspects", or "personalities" as you say. Exactly how, or why, we have no way of knowing yet, but if this turns out to be right, it's definitely an interesting change from the embryo thing...

Is there anything in mythology about gods or divine beings who get split in four?

Addressing related stuff from another thread:

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:The Adams don't have arms or visible legs, unless I'm missing something.

Heh, do they actually need to? Who knows what kind of weird shit is going on. For all we know, they start off as energy beings (who wouldn't need to follow any particular rules) and "solidify" once 2I is properly aborted, kind of like the turnaround Eva-01 does in 2.XX.

The Adams originating as energy beings could actually explain why -- if Eva-01 is a converted Adam -- she develops the third eye feature when she goes all flamey. (The various visual differences can be attributed to the fact that she's gone beyond her roots, due to getting head from Rei and all.)

The other thing that throws me about [the chalk outline] is the size of the head. It's a little large for it to be an Eva, although I guess an MPE with its head thrown back would fit. The Adams would fit a little better, but they have limb issues.

I'm not sure how much I would fixate on the specific shape. That the outline doesn't seem to represent anatomical contours too accurately seems pretty apparent just by looking at, e.g., where the arms meet the body. We get the gist that it's a giant humanoid laying in cruciform position on a blood-drenched hillside (i.e. possibly washed up there).

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Postby Jinroh » Thu May 27, 2010 4:19 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:They've already visually suggested a connection between Eva-01 and one of the Adams, so that probably counts for something.

Yeah BUT... isn't the situation going super crazy and totally third impact as soon as shogoki establishes a contact with Rei?

I mean, we've seen that previously, Rei + (potentially) Lilith = BOOM.

That's why Gendo needed both Rei and shogoki in the first series, and it seems that's one of that rare things that hasen't changed much.

But what I don't understand either is that Gendo and Fuyu expected that to happen. Would that mean they also expected Kaworu, whom they barely know anything about, to save the day?

It seems badly incoherent.

edit:
View Original PostReichu wrote:she's gone beyond her roots, due to getting head from Rei and all.

You're such a pervert :p
Last edited by Jinroh on Thu May 27, 2010 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion » Thu May 27, 2010 4:23 pm

Is there anything in mythology about gods or divine beings who get split in four?

Four no, closest thing I can think of is the four children of the Egyptian gods Geb and Nut: Osiris, Set, Nephthys, and Isis. It could also be based on North, South, East, and West or their guardians in the Chinese zodiac. If all else fails I'll assume they're based on the Daiei's 90s Big 4.
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