What are the "Adams"?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby Chroma » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:50 am

View Original PostTheFriskyIan wrote:Well, Adam could still be the first Angel. Like what if he can split himself up like Israfel did. I'm just saying, this is all What Ifs really.


Not sure if this is possible.

Souls can seemingly be fractured (Mommy Langely), but "split" seems to be intentional, and I'm not sure if it can be done. Lilith's soul was seemingly "split" between Unit-00 and the Reis, but we're never shown how this happens or if split doesn't just imply they spliced her body with the Rei before she was cloned.

The 4 Adams might be more of 4 humans/EVAs that achieved Godhood, or a vision of the future, rather than a split from the First Angel Adam.
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Postby Bagheera » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:28 pm

View Original PostChroma wrote:Souls can seemingly be fractured (Mommy Langely), but "split" seems to be intentional, and I'm not sure if it can be done. Lilith's soul was seemingly "split" between Unit-00 and the Reis, but we're never shown how this happens or if split doesn't just imply they spliced her body with the Rei before she was cloned.


Even so a split had to occur at some point, else how could Rei and Unit 00 be active at the same time? Given the precedent of Kyoko, Lilith/Rei, and Israfel (all admittedly from NGE, so who knows?) I think this is likely one of the least controversial NME theories.

The 4 Adams might be more of 4 humans/EVAs that achieved Godhood, or a vision of the future, rather than a split from the First Angel Adam.


Eh? We saw them in a flashback to 2I, didn't we?
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Postby Chroma » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:45 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Even so a split had to occur at some point, else how could Rei and Unit 00 be active at the same time? Given the precedent of Kyoko, Lilith/Rei, and Israfel (all admittedly from NGE, so who knows?) I think this is likely one of the least controversial NME theories.



Israfel is a different thing because it was a his body that was split in two, not his soul, and since he could go from one to two and back it's not the same as Kyoko or Lilith/Rei.

That said, we're still not totally sure that 00 is Lilith, as high as that chance is. And even then, Lilith is a god; it has a lot of soul to go around and probably can't count in the same way that human souls work in the 'verse.

As for Kyoko, there's not much I can defend - her soul was undoubtedly split, but I always thought it was more of a rip or tear that happened in the soul-to-core transfer rather than her purposely doing it.


Eh? We saw them in a flashback to 2I, didn't we?

We did - I guess I got that mixed up a bit. But I still stand by my thought that Adam didn't split.

If it did, where did the pieces of its soul go? And why would there have then been 4 Lances? Do those split as well? One could argue that a piece definitely went into Kawuro, but what of the other 3? Into Units 01, 02, and 06? Or maybe they were transferred to the pilots (barring Rei), which could explain Shinji's red-eyes.

There's too many open ends for me to be into the theory, at least as of now. Maybe after Q I'll reconsider.
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Postby Bagheera » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:21 pm

View Original PostChroma wrote:Israfel is a different thing because it was a his body that was split in two, not his soul, and since he could go from one to two and back it's not the same as Kyoko or Lilith/Rei.


I'm pretty sure we don't know what became of his soul when it split. Seems reasonable to me to assume it split just like the body, given that he had two cores and all.

That said, we're still not totally sure that 00 is Lilith, as high as that chance is. And even then, Lilith is a god; it has a lot of soul to go around and probably can't count in the same way that human souls work in the 'verse.


No, Lilith is a Seed, and has a human soul like anyone else. Her connection to the Lilith body might make her special somehow (probably does, IMO), but it's not like there's something divine about her or anything. And don't forget, there are at least three soul bits at any one time -- the bit in Rei, the bit in Unit 00, and whatever remained in Lilith (sufficient to say "welcome home", at least). And of course that's assuming the bit in Rei I was recycled into Unit 00, and that Rei III likewise had a recycled soul. It's possible both of those souls were unique, leading to a five-way split (supported by the fact we see three Reis and a chibi Rei in the ends, but it's anything but a settled matter).

As for Kyoko, there's not much I can defend - her soul was undoubtedly split, but I always thought it was more of a rip or tear that happened in the soul-to-core transfer rather than her purposely doing it.


How is that relevant? Who said the Adams in NME had to split up voluntarily? That is why the theory has so much going for it IMO -- we have a voluntary split (Israfel), a forced split (Lilith/Rei), and an accidental split (Kyoko). To say that one of these might be at work with the Adams is about as uncontroversial as it gets. That's not to say it's a given, of course, or even all that more likely than anything else; for all we know the Adams might be the equivalent of Seeds or something, with something as yet unseen being the First Angel (unless they've been identified as such somewhere, I dunno). But IMO it's certainly a plausible notion.

We did - I guess I got that mixed up a bit. But I still stand by my thought that Adam didn't split.

If it did, where did the pieces of its soul go? And why would there have then been 4 Lances? Do those split as well? One could argue that a piece definitely went into Kawuro, but what of the other 3? Into Units 01, 02, and 06? Or maybe they were transferred to the pilots (barring Rei), which could explain Shinji's red-eyes.


Anything's possible. I think the disposition of the soul bits depends on what exactly happened to the Adams during 2I. I think it's premature to stand by much of anything at this point; like most of our unanswered questions it's a matter of "dunno, wait for Q".
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Postby Lurkis » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:40 pm

Sorry if this has already been posted but I don't have time to lurk this thread right now. Has anyone considered Unit 01 to be the 'adam with the "3rd eye".

I bring this up on the premise of Unit 01 during near 3I. It seemed to have the same 3rd eye as one of the Adams.

Again if this has already been posted just let me know and ignore :p

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Postby riffraff11235 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:47 pm

View Original PostLurkis wrote:Sorry if this has already been posted but I don't have time to lurk this thread right now. Has anyone considered Unit 01 to be the 'adam with the "3rd eye".

I bring this up on the premise of Unit 01 during near 3I. It seemed to have the same 3rd eye as one of the Adams.

Again if this has already been posted just let me know and ignore :p

Yeah, I talked about it in a post sometime in September in this same thread, and I think it had already been mentioned in this thread or the 3.0 Speculation thread before then. Welcome to the party! XD
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Postby Lurkis » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:50 pm

View Original Postriffraff11235 wrote:Yeah, I talked about it in a post sometime in September in this same thread, and I think it had already been mentioned in this thread or the 3.0 Speculation thread before then. Welcome to the party! XD


Damn, I am always late for the show. :c

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Postby riffraff11235 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:12 pm

View Original PostLurkis wrote:Damn, I am always late for the show. :c

I'm still kicking myself over being late to the whole "Evangelion" thing in general....

As for the Adams thing, here's some more evidence I pointed out in my earlier post:

riffraff11235 wrote:In the 2.0 image of the Four Adams, it's almost as if the right side of the image has been cut off. If we take Eva-01's appearance during the climax as a reference to the rightmost Adam, then we know that the third eye is not this figure's core, as some have suggested. So why would the image display the cores of the other three Adams so openly while concealing that of the fourth? Maybe it's because this fourth Adam actually has a dual core, just like Eva-01 did when it absorbed the core of Eva-00. (If anyone was uncertain, that was NOT the core of Zeruel - his cracks and explodes after Eva-01 pulls the smaller core out of it.) If the animators had shown the dual-core during the 2I flashback, the connection between Eva-01 and the Adams would have been blatant.
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Postby Warren Peace » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:21 am

I really hope Rebuild avoids the "soul splitting" nonsense. It was invented by the creators to fill in plot holes before being taken to ever greater levels of stupidity by fans. "Something doesn't make sense? Deus ex soulsplittica -- problem solved!" We don't need any more of that Anno.

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:40 am

View Original PostWarren Peace wrote:I really hope Rebuild avoids the "soul splitting" nonsense. It was invented by the creators to fill in plot holes before being taken to ever greater levels of stupidity by fans. "Something doesn't make sense? Deus ex soulsplittica -- problem solved!"


I don't see any evidence it was used to fill plot holes; seems to me it was quite intentional in both of the known cases. And it's not like soul recycling is some inherently superior idea; if you're gonna do multiple iterations of a character you pretty much have to do one or the other, and both have their narrative virtues.

Not sure what you're on about with the fans, since it's only ever come up in the context of Rei (who's one of the confirmed cases anyway). Well, there's the Israfel bit above, but . . . he split in two. We saw it onscreen, so that's not exactly fanwank.

We don't need any more of that Anno.


Unless it's appropriate. In which case, carry on Anno! :lol:
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
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Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Warren Peace » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:30 pm

No no, I'm taking the "Bagheera On The Sequel Theory" approach here: Anno shouldn't do soul splitting because it's shitty fucking stupid bullshit which has never been done well and could never be! Arrrrrrgh!

And is anyone else completely OK with never finding out who the Adams+ are? I've always been weird in that I find Eva's pre-show "mythology" totally uninteresting. Start talking about "FAR" and my eyes glaze over. Eva is about character relationships, so precious screen time should be devoted to that more than Ritsuko exposition about the North Pole and whatnot.

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:04 pm

View Original PostWarren Peace wrote:No no, I'm taking the "Bagheera On The Sequel Theory" approach here: Anno shouldn't do soul splitting because it's shitty fucking stupid bullshit which has never been done well and could never be! Arrrrrrgh!


Tt was actually done quite well in the case of Rei, heightening her mystique and pathos in equal measure. She ain't popular just 'cause she's moe, kid. Same applies to Asuka, far as that goes; we got her mother in the Eva and a tragic backstory at the same time, which wouldn't work without the split. The complications that make those character relationships you esteem so highly so grand are a direct result of soul splitting.

So, swing and a miss. Care to try again?

Also, that's never been my position on the sequel theory, but this isn't the thread for that so whatever.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Warren Peace » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:00 pm

Whatever slim positives come out of the soul splitting concept doesn't make up for blinding stupidity on the negative side of things. Fans may love Rei because of her ardent pathos... or because a lot of them are even more stunted than the main character and find the idea of a passive sex slave infinitely appealing. Definitely one of those two.

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Postby Bagheera » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:44 am

View Original PostWarren Peace wrote:Whatever slim positives come out of the soul splitting concept doesn't make up for blinding stupidity on the negative side of things.


What negative side of things? All I'm hearing here is "I don't like it, and I hope that if I keep on saying it people will agree with me." But whether you like it or not it was the foundation of both Rei's and Asuka's character arcs, and those positives are hardly "slim".

TOPIC, LADY DOGS


Then stop going on about soul splitting generally and how awful it is. The rest of us are on topic.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby tomfrom994 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:28 pm

So, is it possible that we can get a direct mp4 from b-ch? It seems that all the rips that are up are kind of lacking in quality.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:42 pm

View Original Posttomfrom994 wrote:So, is it possible that we can get a direct mp4 from b-ch? It seems that all the rips that are up are kind of lacking in quality.

Are you referring to the trailer in the wrong thread? It looks like it's an RTMPE stream, personally I don't know how to download it.
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Postby Lurkis » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:40 am


[Split into "Mark.09 - Seele Type Adam's Vessel [Split]". - OMF]


View Original PostWarren Peace wrote:I really hope Rebuild avoids the "soul splitting" nonsense.
I think NME has already started to go down that route. The only evidence I have to back it up is as follows: In 2.22 when Rei is in the 'tube' with Gendo watching, she is wearing a collar. On that collar are the numbers "02" most likely referring to Rei 02. If Anno is already hinting about Rei 1, 2 and perhaps a 3rd later on, then why change her back story so far away from what it was in NGE. It worked there and it would work here.

Sorry for off topic, had to get my 2 cents in on that.

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Re: First official image of "New Unit 2"

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Postby anonymaus » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:17 pm

Staff edit: split from new Unit-02 image thread. post/866840/First-official-image-of-New-Unit-2/#866840

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:I find this image really interesting because it looks like 02 now has a similar wide jaw set like 01 and it makes me wonder if its going to take on 01's role in human instrumentality (If they go there) as I don't see Shinji doing that after everything that's happened in in 3.33.


01 will initiate instrumentality. That's the reason Rei is in 01, it's so she can gift instrumentality to Shinji this time around.
01 is Lilith's body so having Lilith's soul inside it too is a ready-made recipe for instrumentality.

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Re: First official image of "New Unit 2"

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:22 pm

But Unit-01 in NTE is an Adam's body
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Re: First official image of "New Unit 2"

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Postby Sachi » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:28 pm

View Original Postanonymaus wrote:01 is Lilith's body so having Lilith's soul inside it too is a ready-made recipe for instrumentality.

There's compelling evidence that Unit 01 is one of the four Adams in NTE, not Lilith. We know for a fact that Mark.06 is an Adam, as well as Unit 13. The third eye Unit 01 displays in 2.0 matches the third eye on one of the Adams also. We know based on the chalk outline in 1.0 that an Adam landed and was retrieved in Japan, and was mostly probably converted into an Evangelion, mostly probably Unit 01.
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