What are the "Adams"?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby Tribblepoo » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:32 pm

View Original PostKoishiro wrote:Mari is a enigmatic character, yet. But don't makes sense, because she not have the Kaworo/Rei's pattern (red eyes, fancy hair... you know).

BUT...
I'm more inclinated to accept that Shinji contain SOME soul this time. Why?
The weird way that his eyes glow red at the events before Near 3rd Impact is the hint.

I'm not so sure the eye-glowing would be an indicator of anything special other than channeling Shogoki's power.

If there were some indication that he were a so-called "Child of Adam", I'd think there would be some sort of other indicators, though not necessarily physical ones. Case in point, if your supposition is correct, I'd think that Shinji's inability to connect to other people on a meaningful level would be more of an indicator than one instance of glowing red eyes. However, that is loose at best.
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Postby Koishiro » Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:09 pm

View Original PostTribblepoo wrote:I'm not so sure the eye-glowing would be an indicator of anything special other than channeling Shogoki's power.


Yeah, quite possible (considering that Mari's eyes glow green on Za Beasto mode, imitating 02 eyes).

I was thinking about the question of the "four Adams", and I bumped on a interesting connection: There's a theory stating that after the 2I, the four Adams were kicked away from the epicenter of the explosion; one Adam landed on a shore on Japan, other landed on the moon, other landed near the actual Bethany Base, and the last... I don't know/remember.

In other hand, we can assume that Shinji was born on Japan, Kaworo on the moon, Asuka on Germany, and Mari... Well, I don't know (but I have a feeling that she is british).
Crossing this two theories, the evidence points that at least Shinji and Kaworo COULD have an Adam soul.

Just speculations...

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Postby Tribblepoo » Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:30 pm

View Original PostKoishiro wrote:Yeah, quite possible (considering that Mari's eyes glow green on Za Beasto mode, imitating 02 eyes).

I was thinking about the question of the "four Adams", and I bumped on a interesting connection: There's a theory stating that after the 2I, the four Adams were kicked away from the epicenter of the explosion; one Adam landed on a shore on Japan, other landed on the moon, other landed near the actual Bethany Base, and the last... I don't know/remember.

In other hand, we can assume that Shinji was born on Japan, Kaworo on the moon, Asuka on Germany, and Mari... Well, I don't know (but I have a feeling that she is british).
Crossing this two theories, the evidence points that at least Shinji and Kaworo COULD have an Adam soul.

Just speculations...

You do bring up a good point about the connection to the children, however, I don't think it's a soul thing. It could very well be that these four Adams represent an opposition force (real or conceptual) to Shinji, Asuka, Mari and Kaworo. This isn't to say that these four will face the Adams in combat or anything, only that they are representative of opposition.

Along those lines, an interesting fact is that those four Adams had an almost child-like appearance as opposed to the near-featureless NGE "humanoid of light". That could also suggest some connection to the children as well.

What we do know is that visual representations in Evangelion are rarely accidents. The fact that four Adams are seen in the same shot very prominently all but screams that the fact that there are four of them means something that is essential to the plot. We just haven't seen it yet.
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Postby Reichu » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:27 pm

View Original PostKoishiro wrote:There's a theory stating that after the 2I, the four Adams were kicked away from the epicenter of the explosion; (...) the last... I don't know/remember.

The last one perhaps underwent an explosive disintegration. In Eva 1.0, a connection between the post-2I ocean and the Angels' physical dissolutions. Problem with this is that, assuming each Adam is about Eva-sized, even all four of them would have a hard time polluting the entire ocean with their dissolved bodies... Did one of them undergo GNR-style "bloat" beforehand? Or is the red stuff in the ocean not from an Adam's body at all, but some other byproduct of Second Impact? I dunno.

Mari is Japanese-British, apparently.

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Postby Na7e » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:32 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Mari is Japanese-British, apparently.


Do we have a wiki entry for the HMS Illustrious from the royal navy?

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Postby Reichu » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:34 pm

View Original PostNa7e wrote:Do we have a wiki entry for the HMS Illustrious from the royal navy?

A sub-entry, anyway.

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Postby Ashes to Ashley » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:24 am

Mari seems to have a more meaningful connection to the evas. After unit 5 explodes she sends it off with a lynguistic salute. then after unit 4 explodes theres that scene where she's standing gazing into the sunset while a flock of black birds fly by which i can only assume are crows. and crows often mean death or just bad shit in general. anyway we see a close up of mari's face. so far mari only has two faces. Happy and screaming. but here she looked sad as if she was mourning. Finally that comment she made when she was going beast. about how she is sharing unit 02's pain. I dont know if this means she is one of the adams, but it definatly means somthing.
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Postby Koishiro » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:33 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:(...) assuming each Adam is about Eva-sized, even all four of them would have a hard time polluting the entire ocean with their dissolved bodies...

I'm stucked in this point too. Much blood will be required to do that thing...
Judging by the flashback of the 2I, we see 4 identical crosses; and as we know, crosses appear when something angelic explodes. None angel should be left after that (conflicting with the theory of "kicked away Adams").

View Original PostReichu wrote:Or is the red stuff in the ocean not from an Adam's body at all, but some other byproduct of Second Impact? I dunno.

This is very acceptable to me. Maybe the explosion generated some massive anti AT-Field, dissolving all the ocean life near it. So, the polluted water progressively spread itself across the globe.

I have in mind a shot of Rebuild 2.0 that could comprove your supposition:
http://wiki.evageeks.org/File:Eva2-22_C0807.jpg
In this sequence, after the unit 04 explodes in a cross, we clearly see impact waves exercing some Anti At-Field property, lefting behind a reddish destruction (probably all life wiped out).
Hum... Interesting glowing points in the explosion. Souls, isn't?

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Postby Oral Stage » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:41 am

Mari's line after Eva 05's explosion has a pretty twisted side. She's aware that the evas are sentient and she speaks of their deaths (and everything really) with romance. I like to think of her as a deluded optimist, a clever rendering of what might be called "well adjusted" - in a world with giant robots and cities that retract underground and shit! But seriously, being pretty up most of the time, knowing stuff that's secret, she seems to be moving in on Kawouru's territory.

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:55 am

I'm still not clear on why anyone would assume anyone in the NTE would have the souls of Adams, Lilith, or anyone else. Have souls even been mentioned in the course of the show? I can't recall if they have or not, but there seem to be an awful lot of assumptions floating around in this thread.
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Postby Ashes to Ashley » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:14 am

im sure there is still some soul shenanigans going on, at least with the eva's and the pilots.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:16 am

View Original PostAshes to Ashley wrote:im sure there is still some soul shenanigans going on, at least with the eva's and the pilots.


Based on what?
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Ashes to Ashley » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:21 am

during the climax gendo ''said why yui why are you refusing me''. Plus when Shinji was sitting in the cockpit he said somthing about it reminding him of his mother.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:38 am

That's not much to hang a theory on though, you know? I mean, for all we know Eva-01 could be something like the Magi were in NGE, more a copy of Yui than anything to do with her soul. We just don't know (and more importantly, even if that is true we still don't know jack about the Adams, and we certainly don't have any reason to believe their souls (if they even have any!) have been transferred to human pilots).
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Ashes to Ashley » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:44 am

thats true, were mostly just going off the original. im still curious about what mari's connection to the other eva's is though.
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Postby driftking18594 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:55 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Problem with this is that, assuming each Adam is about Eva-sized, even all four of them would have a hard time polluting the entire ocean with their dissolved bodies... Did one of them undergo GNR-style "bloat" beforehand? Or is the red stuff in the ocean not from an Adam's body at all, but some other byproduct of Second Impact? I dunno.


There's also Eva-00's gruesome end to consider, with the unbelievable amount of bleeding it did from little more than its feet and shins.

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Postby Reichu » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:48 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Have souls even been mentioned in the course of the show?

http://wiki.evageeks.org/Resources:Explanation_of_Evangelion_1.01_%28Pt._1%29

- Entry Plug (or, Vessel of a Soul) of Eva-01
- Entry Plug Interior (or, Throne of a Soul)

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Postby riffraff11235 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:59 pm

Since I wanted to make a post stating something that I came with about the Adams, I thought I'd read the entire thread to make sure it wasn't mentioned beforehand. And, unsurprisingly, it was Reichu that mentioned it... for the most part. I wrote down some comments as I was reading, so I'll post those before I get into my own idea. Some of these are in response to posts that are about 3 years old, so I apologize in advance if they seem to come out of left field.
  • All of the Angels in Rebuild generate a halo (or halos) at some point in their appearances. Some may not be readily apparent - especially Ramiel's - and Zeruel may only have used his in an attempt to squash Unit-02, but I'm pretty sure they're all accounted for.
  • Eva-01 was stopped in the process of evolving during Near-3I. If you look at it just before the end of the film, it looks like a cross between its original bound form and the three-eyed Adam, energy wings and all. If the process had been allowed to continue, I'm fairly sure Eva-01 would have ended up looking just like that Adam.
  • When someone mentioned the blood-covered hillside we see in the beginning of 1.0 with the giant crucified silhouette, the thought of Golgotha popped into my head. I know that Golgotha Base is where the Dummy System was made, but I'm not sure if its location was ever mentioned.
  • Isn't it at all possible that Eva-01 is in itself the giant whose silhoutte is left on the hillside?
  • When Reichu proposed the "Super Adam's" original spear splitting into the four that we see during 2I, I got an image of the two interwoven tines of the spear unraveling and then splitting multiple times and reweaving together to form four spears.
  • The theory of the Four Adams representing the Four Adams made me think of the "winged creatures" that are symbols of each Evangelist: Matthew = winged man, Mark = winged lion, Luke = winged ox, John = eagle. I just thought it had a neat connection with the "Wings of Light" that the Adams have.

Okay, now that's over with, here's what I noticed.

Image

In the 2.0 image of the Four Adams, it's almost as if the right side of the image has been cut off. If we take Eva-01's appearance during the climax as a reference to the rightmost Adam, then we know that the third eye is not this figure's core, as some have suggested. So why would the image display the cores of the other three Adams so openly while concealing that of the fourth? Maybe it's because this fourth Adam actually has a dual core, just like Eva-01 did when it absorbed the core of Eva-00. (If anyone was uncertain, that was NOT the core of Zeruel - his cracks and explodes after Eva-01 pulls the smaller core out of it.) If the animators had shown the dual-core during the 2I flashback, the connection between Eva-01 and the Adams would have been blatant.

It would seem that Eva-01 requires two cores to start its Pseudo-Evolution, since it was immediately shut down once the Spear thrown by Mark.06 pierced one of them. Whether or not it was specifically Eva-00's sphere that was needed is not clear. If it was, that may imply that both Eva-01 and Eva-00 were derived from the same Adam, his dual core being split up between the two.

Well, that's my wall of text for today. Comments and hole-punching alike would be greatly appreciated!
Last edited by riffraff11235 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Reichu » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:26 pm

riffraff: Great observation on the cropping in that specific cut. (Now, why didn't I think of that? :lol: ) I'm inclined to agree.

(Would this mean that the IPEA decided to depict a specific Adam in their logo? What a peculiar thing to do -- I mean, I'd imagine that if any documentation of the things' appearances exist, they're REALLY fucking classified.)

I don't think the 10th Angel's halo made it into the film. (I say this after screencapping the entire second film. Yeah, I really did that. :bigeyes: ) Its appearance was planned in a storyboard (scan should be here somewhere), but excised for... no reason that comes to mind. Pushing Eva-02 away was just sleight of ATF.

Interesting thought on the bloody hillside. While the general area is host to post-2I ruins, it's possible that there is a Nerv research base hidden about. If it is there, it could have reasonably evolved from the makeshift research station that would have been erected to do preliminary processing of the washed-up Adam (before the specimen was presumably sent to Nerv HQ), and subsequently refurbished into something more permanent. Though why anyone would draw attention to the site by leaving a giant chalk outline is beyond all scope of reason.

Back on page 7 (and maybe earlier, can't remember anymore), it was suggested that the silhouette belongs to what became Eva-01.

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Postby riffraff11235 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:09 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:(Would this mean that the IPEA decided to depict a specific Adam in their logo? What a peculiar thing to do -- I mean, I'd imagine that if any documentation of the things' appearances exist, they're REALLY fucking classified.)


Assuming that SEELE kept the existence of the moon giant / Mark.06 a secret from everyone, it's possible that the IPEA may only be aware of the existence of that Adam. That, or SEELE - seeing as they're pretty much the masters of the universe - may have just designed the logo and said, "Here's your logo. Run with it. Don't ask."

View Original PostReichu wrote:I don't think the 10th Angel's halo made it into the film.


Darn, I was hoping Anno would go 10/10... err, I mean, 8/8.

View Original PostReichu wrote:Though why anyone would draw attention to the site by leaving a giant chalk outline is beyond all scope of reason.


Maybe this area of Tokyo I is off limits to civilians, so NERV isn't too worried about drawing attention to the site.
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