saiyajin prince wrote:I don't see how it is possible for Shogouki, Eva 01 if I'm correct could be made with both Adam and Lillith. I don't even think, NERV was in possesion of Adam when Eva01 was made...
Well, according to my whacky little idea, Sho is, genetically
, Adam and who-knows-what-else, and GEHIRN used Mysterious Occult Technology (TM) to turn Lilith's legs into the blob of flesh that would eventually be EVA-01. Genes from one source, biomass from the other, so Shogouki has two "parents" in that sense. At least, if my whacky little idea has any credibility at all, which you folks seem to think it doesn't. ::crawls under her desk and sobs melodramatically::
As for your second point... I can't remember precisely when NERV "reacquired" the Adam embryo from Antarctica (I need to watch the series again, GWARRR), but they had plenty of chances to take samples from Addy-boy while the Katsuragi Team was studying him. Recall that Gendou skipped out before Second Impact occured, and he could have taken some Adam samples with him, which would have been used for Project E afterwards.
Sharp-kun wrote:As for the structural similarities, Adam and Lilith are similar beings, and are thought to have once been one.
I think I recall hearing this idea somewhere before, though is there anything that really supports it? Despite what's been said about "Lilith being one source of life and Adam another", or something to that effect, I, personally, like the idea that Adam arose from Lilith at some time or another... [Didn't Misato imply this at some point in 25'?] But that's beside the point.
I wouldn't say the necessarilly changed the genome that much...
Still, I do think that the Evas -- including good ol' Sho -- form an inclusive group and are similar to each other in ways that they are unique from both Adam and Lilith. [Well... Those MPs REALLY put stress on this idea, but if you lop their heads off they're Eva enough. ::p] The Lilim managed to create a unique type of entity, in a sense. Despite the talk about Shogouki being a "clone" of Lilith -- I like the translation "offspring" better [though I never =did= look at the original Japanese there and make my own "educated" decision as to which translation is better...] -- I really do NOT see the resemblance, myself.
[I couldn't get a table to look right, so we're going to have to do WITHOUT conveniently-matching rows:]
==LILITH & SHOGOUKI: A COMPARISON==
(A) white, vaguely bioluminescent skin
(B) black pits with glowing red pupils for eyes
(C) eyes face forward
(D) "marshmallowy" composure
(E) very little body definition
(F) uses LCL for blood
(G) no core (so it would seem, anyway)
(A) chocolate-brown skin with no special properties
(B) emerald-green eyes (both iris and schlera)
(C) eyes located more on the sides of the head
(D) "traditional" composure (i.e., organic and human-like)
(E) defined body features (musculature, etc.)
(F) LCL produced inside core only / red blood
(G) core formed to contain soul of Ikari Yui
And... stuff like that.
Shogouki clearly demonstrates traditionally "Evangelion" features while showing no physical similarities to Lilith (other than being humanoid and roughly the same size). Given the little known about Evas, common traits are difficult to come up with, but they nonetheless include:
(1) Eyes positioned more on the sides of the head than facing forward as in humans and Lilith* (in Evas with an even number of eyes only)
(2) Three auxillary pupils (displayed by EVA-01, EVA-02, and EVA-03; presumably a common trait)
(3) Bioluminescent eyes (when the Evas get PO'd, anyway ;;D)
(4) Four nostrils (known for Evas 01~04)
(5) Dark skin (chocolate-brown for EVA-01, blue-grey for EVA-02, reddish-brown for EVA-03, and fleshy brown for EVA-00)
(6) Concentric patterning on the face (known for EVA-01 and EVA-02)
Such shared attributes -- which may have originally come from Adam, though this is impossible to determine -- lend credence to my notion of Evas as a "monophyletic" group (scientific jargon is fun ;;p). That is, as I said before, the Evas are a unique type of entity -- albeit an artificial one -- that have more in common with each other than with anything else in the NGE universe. That is, unless you think (A) that Adam is like an Eva in all of the regards listed above (which, again, is impossible to determine based on the sole two depictions of his "adult" form in the anime**) and (B) that Lilith was a slim, tanned, muscular dame before she inexplicably turned into a Stay-Puft Marshmallow Woman with ventrally-oriented eyes. As far as I can tell, Shogouki *cannot* be Lilith's "clone", unless "clone" has some strange meaning I'm not currently aware of...
Of course, none of this has ANYTHING to do with Kaworu's origins, though I fancy any opportunity to babble prolifically about my beloved Evas.
My apologies for taking this so off-topic. ::p
* While her original face is never seen, the mask's coverage seems to imply that her eyes do not have an Evangelion-style placement.
** ...being the hikari no kyojin
form (seen in the intro, episode 12, and, partially, in 21') and the "Antarctic excavation" pic seen in 23' and the expanded "Renewal" intro. Quite annoyingly, the two depictions are inconsistent with one another.
[Edit: Getting Lil/Sho comparison to look right; typos; random other changes; w00t, I have a sig now!]Originally posted on: 31-Jul-2003, 17:10 GMT