Evangelion/Gunbuster Comparisons & Preference

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tv33 [ANF]
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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:41 am

No to mention Angel fights take on average probably 2 minutes or less. Most of the episode is the characters interacting while they find a way to beat it, or wait for it to arrive.

Originally posted on: 11-Mar-2004, 08:51 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:41 am

Reichu wrote:Feh, I find the angels one of the best parts of the show. Call it "Monster of the Week" if you will -- they're one of the things that kept me watching. Granted, I don't think Anno exploited their potential as much as I would have liked, but that's what doujinshi are for.

Its not that it exists, its that the time could have been better utilised.

Originally posted on: 10-Mar-2004, 21:40 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:41 am

NakedEYE666 wrote:Ah, tu'che (ehh I doubt that is right, since I don't even know what it means or what language it comes from!)


Kochi-kochi.

Sharp-kun wrote:Its not that it exists, its that the time could have been better utilised.


It's not that WHAT exists?

Originally posted on: 10-Mar-2004, 22:20 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:41 am

Reichu wrote:It's not that WHAT exists?

It Image




Yes, I should have made a better post Image I was referring to the "monster of the week style". I don't have a problem with such things, however, I do think some of the time could have been better spent. In Eva there was clearly a lot that Anno thought of at the time, that was never even touched on in the series. Even a reference to stuff like Adam and Lilith's origins would have been nice.

Originally posted on: 10-Mar-2004, 22:23 GMT

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Postby HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:41 am

Reichu wrote:Note that the "budget shots" from #22 and #24 are still present in the New Production Cuts. Evidently, Anno wanted them to be there.


True, but would Anno have cut them out even if he'd had the chance (which, apparently, he did)? After all, I don't recall anything from the original episodes actually being cut out in the NPC's, only new stuff being added (though, as always, I could be wrong). Heck, he never bothered with a remake of the infamous "recap" episode made up almost entirely of recycled footage and screen text...while I obviously can't confirm it, my gut feeling tells me that that episode wasn't part of his original plan, but in it went and in it stayed. It's just speculation, but methinks that the purpose of the NPC's was simply to add new stuff to what was already there, not to rearrange or delete anything, which is why the "budget" scenes still remain...which, of course, makes it even more ironic that they called it a "Director's Cut." Image Still, that's just my opinion...

Originally posted on: 10-Mar-2004, 23:03 GMT

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Postby thx3876 [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:41 am

HeWhoPostsStuff wrote:Heck, he never bothered with a remake of the infamous "recap" episode made up almost entirely of recycled footage and screen text...while I obviously can't confirm it, my gut feeling tells me that that episode wasn't part of his original plan, but in it went and in it stayed.

While I clearly haven't seen every anime series ever made, I've noticed that most anime series have such an episode.

Originally posted on: 10-Mar-2004, 23:15 GMT

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Postby Quiddity [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:41 am

tv33 wrote:No to mention Angel fights take on average probably 2 minutes or less. Most of the episode is the characters interacting while they find a way to beat it, or wait for it to arrive.


Yes, the Angel fights themselves tend to be short outside of eps 18 and 19, but they spend a considerable amount of time on strategy for fighting the Angels. And while that certainly makes the show better than most from the Monster of the Week angle, it makes the episodes fly by without accomplishing enough. Thats alright at first. But suddenly we're in the 20's and Anno has to set things to absurd speeds to get the rest of the plot in there. Rei dies then comes back seconds later rather than leaving her dead for a few episodes which would have had better impact. Kaworu and Shinji have the greatest relationship in the history of the world after half an episode, it wouldn't be so ridiculous if there was 3-4 episodes for it instead of half a one. At the time the MOTW eps don't seem a big deal. But then you hit the end of the show and there's no time left because so much was spent on strategy for beating Angels.

Regarding the Director's Cut, what reason is there for Anno to remove them? The new episodes were direct to video and hence did not have to worry about time. Even though those pauses were certainly there for budgetary and laziness reasons there are always those that would be upset if anything was cut whatsoever. So they stay. Doesn't mean they shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Originally posted on: 11-Mar-2004, 05:02 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:41 am

HeWhoPostsStuff wrote:...which, of course, makes it even more ironic that they called it a "Director's Cut." Image Still, that's just my opinion...


First off, as I've pointed out in the past, the term "cut", in film, does not refer to things being cut OUT, but rather the way things are cut TOGETHER. (At least, that's the impression I've gotten.) Second, "they" (being GAINAX) never called it a "Director's Cut" -- the original Japanese is (as I've mentioned once or twice Image) "Shinsaku KATTO" (New Production Cut), but for whatever reason that gets bastardized into English as "Director's Cut". :shrug:

Originally posted on: 11-Mar-2004, 13:45 GMT

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Postby HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:41 am

Yes, yes, I READ that whole explanation! I KNOW what "cut" means! I KNOW the English release screwed that up! You already embarrassed me about this once! Image

Guess I shoulda been clearer as to who I meant by "they," though. As always, I manage to bring such scrutiny upon myself...sorta scary how efficiently I manage to do it. Image

Originally posted on: 11-Mar-2004, 21:12 GMT

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Postby Dr. Nick [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:41 am

Quiddity, may I ask how you would have handled the final two episodes of Eva if you were the director and the circumstances were the same (= the studio has virtually no money, very little time and your original script is censored to hell)?

Originally posted on: 11-Mar-2004, 21:25 GMT

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Postby NakedEYE666 [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:41 am

I understand your angle, Quiddity, but a lot of people value a to the point series, and it seems like you'd be spreading the series out. I mean, what can you do to provide the time for Kaworu & Shinji to get to know each other better? Why on earth would Rei just stay dead for a while when they can revive her at any time?

Originally posted on: 11-Mar-2004, 22:58 GMT

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Postby Quiddity [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:42 am

Dr. Nick wrote:Quiddity, may I ask how you would have handled the final two episodes of Eva if you were the director and the circumstances were the same (= the studio has virtually no money, very little time and your original script is censored to hell)?


I wouldn't have gotten myself in that situation in the first place. I wouldn't have gone so overboard earlier in the series which Anno did, eventually screwing themselves over. And I would plan from the start knowing full well that I am on TV not in an OVA or movie and thus have limitations when it comes to content. Thus I wouldn't get myself in that situation in the first place. Gainax gets no sympathy from me regarding the situation they were in for the final 2 episodes because they got themselves in that situation. And as Tomino and other directors/writers have proved, it is possible to radically change your ending for the better when the situation changes radically. I'm no writer, I'm not a creative person, if you threw me in a situation where I had to resolve Eva with 2 episodes and no budget and no time I wouldn't be able to pull out a masterpiece. But unlike Anno and co. I would make sure not to get in that situation in the first place.

Originally posted on: 12-Mar-2004, 00:34 GMT

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Postby onearmedscissor [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:42 am

the final two episodes were very well done. they brought a lot of insight to the characters.

also, if the Shinji holding kaoru scene in 24 was just to save money, then why would they leave it in death?

Originally posted on: 11-Apr-2004, 23:08 GMT

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Postby senseinobaka [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:42 am

Quiddity wrote:I wouldn't have gotten myself in that situation in the first place. I wouldn't have gone so overboard earlier in the series which Anno did, eventually screwing themselves over. And I would plan from the start knowing full well that I am on TV not in an OVA or movie and thus have limitations when it comes to content. Thus I wouldn't get myself in that situation in the first place. Gainax gets no sympathy from me regarding the situation they were in for the final 2 episodes because they got themselves in that situation. And as Tomino and other directors/writers have proved, it is possible to radically change your ending for the better when the situation changes radically. I'm no writer, I'm not a creative person, if you threw me in a situation where I had to resolve Eva with 2 episodes and no budget and no time I wouldn't be able to pull out a masterpiece. But unlike Anno and co. I would make sure not to get in that situation in the first place.



I dont know if you could plan for a money source(sega) pulling out on you....but maybe you're that good, who knows.

When I read forums like this, I tend to wonder how is it that just Eva comes under such fire. The complaints against this series so far include 2, 1 minute scences and a WELL DONE, so called 'monster of the week' plot. Do people tend to forget that when compared to other series, Eva has an extremely large amount of aspects that are unparalled, such as the character development. I just find it intresting that things that are so miniscule can be complained about and things that are amazing are overlooked.

Anyway. I chose Eva over Gunbuster only because Eva has everything that made gunbuster great just in a longer and even more dramatic story.

Originally posted on: 12-Apr-2004, 02:15 GMT

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Postby HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:42 am

onearmedscissor wrote:also, if the Shinji holding kaoru scene in 24 was just to save money, then why would they leave it in death?

Because Death was already pretty much a ripoff anyways, heh. Though still not as bad as Rebirth, scarily enough.

Originally posted on: 13-Apr-2004, 08:04 GMT

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Postby onearmedscissor [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:42 am

HeWhoPostsStuff wrote:Because Death was already pretty much a ripoff anyways, heh. Though still not as bad as Rebirth, scarily enough.

but they could have put any other scene in the series to fill most of the time Shinji was holding kaoru, so why didn't they? the only logical answer is because that scene was intended to be that long for dramatic effect, not budget reasons.

Originally posted on: 15-Apr-2004, 00:40 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:42 am

onearmedscissor wrote:but they could have put any other scene in the series to fill most of the time Shinji was holding kaoru, so why didn't they? the only logical answer is because that scene was intended to be that long for dramatic effect, not budget reasons.

The purpose behind the final scene of Death is to set things up for Rebirth/Ep 25' . That's why we get the end of Ep 24'. You don't just "insert scenes" when you're doing that, as it breaks the flow. It would also have messed up the timing with the music

Originally posted on: 15-Apr-2004, 00:42 GMT

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Postby onearmedscissor [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:43 am

Sharp-kun wrote:The purpose behind the final scene of Death is to set things up for Rebirth/Ep 25' . That's why we get the end of Ep 24'. You don't just "insert scenes" when you're doing that, as it breaks the flow. It would also have messed up the timing with the music

i'm saying they could have inserted a scene earlier in the movie, then shortened the scene with Shinji holding kaoru. i'm sure if that scene was long just for budget reasons they wouldn't leave it in just for the timing of the music. they most likely could have easily found a way to make the music still fit in.

Originally posted on: 15-Apr-2004, 02:59 GMT

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Postby thx3876 [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:43 am

onearmedscissor wrote:i'm saying they could have inserted a scene earlier in the movie, then shortened the scene with Shinji holding kaoru. i'm sure if that scene was long just for budget reasons they wouldn't leave it in just for the timing of the music. they most likely could have easily found a way to make the music still fit in.

The scene is perfect and beautiful just the way it is. There's such a thing as "less is more" in the artistic medium. It's an appropriate moment of stillness done in a tasteful way. Whatever the reason for it, be it budget or creative, it worked out fine. If the entire series was nothing but blazing motion without any change of pace, it would get boring after a while.

Originally posted on: 15-Apr-2004, 07:32 GMT

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Postby senseinobaka [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:43 am

lets say it was origianlly done for budget reason...

why change it if almost 8 years after they series was finished people will start threads disccusing WHY this scene was done like it was. Intentional or not Eva wouldnt really be Eva w/o that scene.^o^

Originally posted on: 15-Apr-2004, 14:17 GMT


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