Why do the Angels Believe that Adam was in the Geofront?

[zep [ANF]]

I am always trying to anwser this question but i still found a real good anwser...

If the angel's was sending by God... Why God send the angels to get lilith if God know than adam was in the hand of gendou??

I will appreciate the anwser

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 00:09 GMT

[Fuzzy Chickens [ANF]]

The Angels are acting of their own accord, not acting out God's will.

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 00:21 GMT

[NakedEYE666 [ANF]]

If you want the will of God, watch Berserk, I don't think God had much omni-presence in Evangelion. Afterall, he's in His heaven.

My theory as to why the Angels went after Lilith is that at night Gendou would hang his hand on a string and put it above Lilith (like when you put a bag of food up on a tree to ward off bears) and since the Angels' ability to track Adam was a sporadic echo radar that they would only release once and then assume that Adam had not moved. This explains why the one Angel with the humanly ammount of reason, Kaworu, was able to figure it out.

As for the Angels and their will, I think they where probably following instinct, much like humans, trying to live on, knowing that to live on they would have to destroy mankind.

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 00:39 GMT

[HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF]]

This IS something of a sticky wicket, because there's evidence that seems to point to a whole bunch of different possibilities throughout the series...here are 3 examples I can think of...

1) They think Lilith is Adam for some reason. Pretty obvious one, especially when it comes to all the Angels before Gaghiel, who attacked Tokyo-3 before Adam was even anywhere in the vicinity...and possibly Kaworu, but there's another theory about him below...

2) Adam, well, IS in the Geofront. Well, once Kaji delivers him to Gendo anyway. In fact, it's hinted that Adam, NOT Unit-02, was what Gaghiel was really after when he attacked the U.N. fleet...if this was the case, then the Angels would be right on target in their attacks, at least for the latter part of the series anyway...

3) Adam isn't really even what they're after. The DC of episode 24 threw a big ol' monkey wrench into the works for me...when Kaworu is seen talking to Seele, they tell him outright that Adam's body is inside of Gendo Ikari. Even in spite of that, Kaworu STILL decides to go to Terminal Dogma instead, and finds Lilith. Either something in his Adam-sensor is out of whack, or he really only came to Nerv to see what humanity (through Shinji)'s decision would be, regarding whether they'd be willing to fight to live or not, or something else entirely...were all the Angels the same way? Guess we'll never really know...

I'm sure there are other ideas out there, but those are the most obvious ones I can think of...the more senior members here can probably offer more insight into it than I can...

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 01:33 GMT

[NakedEYE666 [ANF]]

I guess it's fairly likely that the Angels had different goals from one another. While some may have been on a human understanding mission, others may have been after the Evangelions themselves (hey, it's possible I guess) or maybe they're afraid what mankind will do with the power of Lilith and thus aim to destroy her.

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 01:41 GMT

[saiyajin prince [ANF]]

There was a theory where the mask that Lillith wore is what attracted the angels....but that's just a theory....

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 01:48 GMT

[AchtungAffen [ANF]]

Theres another theory wich makes more sense, wich reads that the Angels were not after Adam, they were after Lillith.

This is so, because to get a 3rd Impact both factors (Lillith and Adam factor) would have to get together, the mix of the fruit of life and the fruit of wisdom. If the Angels came in contact with Adam then no mix of fruits would happen, but if they came in contact with Lillith yes.

And this also explains another thing: Kaworu was cheated, everything he said regarding the objective of Angels is plain worng, because he doesn't know who is who.

Seems pretty nice, although I don't believe in this.

I prefer to think that because the White Moon was empty, all Angels tried to look for Adam at the black moon, the biggest alien object on earth.

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 02:07 GMT

[thewayneiac [ANF]]

This IS something of a sticky wicket, because there's evidence that seems to point to a whole bunch of different possibilities throughout the series...here are 3 examples I can think of...

1) They think Lilith is Adam for some reason. Pretty obvious one, especially when it comes to all the Angels before Gaghiel, who attacked Tokyo-3 before Adam was even anywhere in the vicinity...and possibly Kaworu, but there's another theory about him below...

2) Adam, well, IS in the Geofront. Well, once Kaji delivers him to Gendo anyway. In fact, it's hinted that Adam, NOT Unit-02, was what Gaghiel was really after when he attacked the U.N. fleet...if this was the case, then the Angels would be right on target in their attacks, at least for the latter part of the series anyway...

3) Adam isn't really even what they're after. The DC of episode 24 threw a big ol' monkey wrench into the works for me...when Kaworu is seen talking to Seele, they tell him outright that Adam's body is inside of Gendo Ikari. Even in spite of that, Kaworu STILL decides to go to Terminal Dogma instead, and finds Lilith. Either something in his Adam-sensor is out of whack, or he really only came to Nerv to see what humanity (through Shinji)'s decision would be, regarding whether they'd be willing to fight to live or not, or something else entirely...were all the Angels the same way? Guess we'll never really know...

I'm sure there are other ideas out there, but those are the most obvious ones I can think of...the more senior members here can probably offer more insight into it than I can...

#1. Is probably the best explanation. It is stated in the series that Human and Angel DNA are an almost exact match. It therefore stands to reason that their forebearers, Lilith and Adam would also be at least that close if not closer. This could easily cause the Angels to home-in on Lilith.

#2 would seem to bear this out. The only Angel that doesn't head towards Nerv appears when a real piece of Adam is brought out into the open where the Angels can notice it.
(I should mention here that some people here have a different explanation for the DNA match. In the 2nd impact scene at the beginning of DC 21', there is a reference to merging human Dna into Adam; some people believe that this resulted in the birth of the Angels, as opposed to the theory (which I Believe) that they had been hibernating for billions of years waiting for Adam to re-emerge. I tend towards the theory that DNA merging refers to the birth of Kaworu, born, you might recall on the day of 2nd impact.

#3. Kaworu's behavior is certainly confusing. Despite what they tell him, he plainly mistakes Lilith for Adam until he is just a few feet away. (He says something like: "Adam, the mother of our race,... No, Wait! Lilith!?") All I can think is that he doesn't understand what Seele is saying. He answers: "Then Shinji's father is like me?" Kaworu has a Human body with Adam's soul, (or a copy of it). Perhaps he believes that they mean that Gendo has also been somehow united with Adam's soul, instead of with his body. Anyway the fact that Kaworu mistakes Lilith for Adam even when in the same room with her confirms the "mistaken identity" theory.

I should note here that there is a theory that the mask Lilith wears somehow sends out "Adam Signals". There doesn't seem to be any evidence to support this, but it does have the advantage of explaning the mask. (I don't especially believe this. I think that Lilith is wearing a mask because Anno doesn't want us to know what she looks like.)

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 02:28 GMT

[zep [ANF]]

I was thinkig if the angels have some kind of 6 sense they should be know where is adam, so what its the reason to some of the angels attack the geo front before adam was there??... maybe they was trying to found lilith and not adam... cause you don't think to kaworu never look to gendou?? if kaworu know that just watching lilith she was not adam... why he never know about gendou have adam in his hand??

Said this cause kaworu when saw lilith he reject his destiny in order to keep a live the mankind...

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 02:43 GMT

[HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF]]

Some very interesting ideas there...

Achtung, if what you say about the different "fruits" needing to meet in order to cause a reaction, then how does the merge between Gendo (a Lilim) and Adam fit into that equation? Maybe I just need some clarification on what you mean by that...I'm definitely not sure what you mean when you say Kaworu "didn't know who was who." And as for the Black Moon, methinks you might be mistaken in calling it "alien," as quite a few Eva fans think that the two "moons," and thus the Angels, have been on Earth for a long time...

Wayneiac (love the name ), the DNA idea is a possibility, but that would depend on the theory that the DNA structure is what the Angels sense when they seek Adam/Lilith, and not some other factor...after all, if Angel DNA is so close to human DNA, the Angels could have possibly mistaken humans themselves as what they were looking for, unless their wiring is really sensitive...which seems unlikely if they're unable to tell the difference between Adam and Lilith.

The theory of Kaworu's origins is very, very interesting...though it opens up a lot of speculation as to what he might have been doing for the 14 or 15 years before he appears in the series...as far as his mistaking of Lilith for Adam is concerned, I was always partial to the idea that he DID know that he was headed towards Lilith, and never really intended to set anything off in the first place, and rather was interested in seeing Shinji's reaction to his actions...it just seems odd that he would think that Gendo possesses Adam's soul, when he himself has it and knows it (though I have seen theories on here that souls can exist in more than one place at a time: no WAY I'm delving any deeper into those until I've seen more evidence though ).

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 02:56 GMT

[Fuzzy Chickens [ANF]]

The DC of episode 24 threw a big ol' monkey wrench into the works for me...when Kaworu is seen talking to Seele, they tell him outright that Adam's body is inside of Gendo Ikari. Even in spite of that, Kaworu STILL decides to go to Terminal Dogma instead, and finds Lilith.

Oh great, ANOTHER reason for me to question 24'. Don't you people know when to hold your tongues ?

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 03:05 GMT

[AchtungAffen [ANF]]

Some very interesting ideas there...

Achtung, if what you say about the different "fruits" needing to meet in order to cause a reaction, then how does the merge between Gendo (a Lilim) and Adam fit into that equation? Maybe I just need some clarification on what you mean by that...I'm definitely not sure what you mean when you say Kaworu "didn't know who was who." And as for the Black Moon, methinks you might be mistaken in calling it "alien," as quite a few Eva fans think that the two "moons," and thus the Angels, have been on Earth for a long time...

WEll, you found the flaw I've been searching for such a long time! Its right, there seems to be a problem with that theory.

But I call both moons Alien, because on the text book Shinji has in class it said that the "Giant Impact" (or first impact) was the collision of a meteor that torn apart the moon from the earth. I think that's presumably because it was the impact of both moons on earth.

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 03:11 GMT

[HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF]]

Hmmm...the moons hitting Earth might have been what separated "The" Moon from Earth way the heck back when, never heard that theory before...it seems a little unlikely that such an enormous pair of impacts so far away from each other would have knocked only such a relatively small chunk o' rock as "the" moon off of good ol' Earth, but I'm definitely no physicist, so you could well be right. And yeesh, 3 days here and I'm already shattering theories? Good thing I kept my Flame Resistant Suit.

As for you, Senor Chickens, hey, what's Eva about if not questioning what you see, after all? Heck, just above here I and several others put forth a few ideas as to why Kaworu might have acted the way he did...there must be a reason for it, after all, since the whole dialogue with Seele, and thus a new divulgence of information, was added, after the original series aired, so the creators are obviously hinting at something...or making a concerted effort to drive us even more crazy than before.

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 03:21 GMT

[Fuzzy Chickens [ANF]]

While we're opn the subject of white moons, it should be noted that in a certain scene during EoE, we see the Sun, the Earth, the Moon, and the Black Moon, and two naked people and a lot of rocks, but this mythical "white moon" is nowhere to be found. Not saying this qualifies as proof, mind you, just worth considering.

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 03:23 GMT

[HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF]]

I think I know the sequence you mean...moon at top of the screen, earth on the bottom, Rei/Shinji near the center...I'm almost positive that the black moon is seen on the far side of the screen (I think it's the right side) and a distinct white obect is seen opposite of it...I'd hafta check again...

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 03:31 GMT

[AchtungAffen [ANF]]

The white moon can be seen on episode 21 as Fuyu is on the Antártica, he talks about an underground cavity, we see a topographical display of it. SEELE talks about the white moon on episode 24 DC, and there is a mention (I think) on the Theatrical Programs. IT was partially destroyed during 2nd Impact.

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 03:35 GMT

[Crazy Penguin [ANF]]

Angel sense, tingling!

I think that we're supposed to assume that both Adam and Lilith gave off similar vibes that the angels' angel sense could detect.

As for Kaworu, I think that was a blunder in episode 24', probably best explained with Kaworu being confused. Maybe he thought it entirely possible that Gendo joined with Adam would look all big and scary.

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 09:31 GMT

[Sharp-kun [ANF]]

Some very interesting ideas there...

Achtung, if what you say about the different "fruits" needing to meet in order to cause a reaction, then how does the merge between Gendo (a Lilim) and Adam fit into that equation?

He used Rei as well, with the Soul of Lilith - Fruit of Life.

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 12:11 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

IT was partially destroyed during 2nd Impact.

I was under the impression that it was COMPLETELY destroyed.

Seele: And in Adam, progenitor of Angels - the true successors from the lost White Moon.

"Lost" implies, to me, that 2I totally destroyed it. That would also explain why the White Moon is nowhere to be found in this image. The white sphere on the right COULD be the White Moon, but I think it's far more likely just the Sun. The Sun is depicted in a similar way at least twice elsewhere in EoE.

And as far as Lilith's mask is concerned, I proposed one idea for its relevance in the "Rei and the Moon" thread. Or maybe after GEHIRN unearthed the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Woman, they were so freaked out by her face they started looking for stuff to cover it.

"Well, what about that giant mantlepiece we have upstairs with the SEELE mark on it?"
"Hey, good idea! I think it's actually big enough, too. How are we going to attach it, though?"
"I think there's some Gorilla Glue (TM) in the closet."

And then when Keel visits Japan later that year...

Keel: "Hey! Where did that giant mantlepiece go? And where's my pudding?!"
Random GEHIRN Guy: "Oh, we've been doing some redecorating. Come on down to the basement -- you'll just LOVE what we've done with it."
Keel: "Forget what I said about pudding. Bring me some marshmallows."

Judging by Lilith's eyes, at least, the rest of her face was probably complementarily scary, so I really can't blame the poor GEHIRN folks... The Katsuragi Team didn't have the same problem with Adam, so I'm guessing he was a dreamboat by comparison.

I actually used to prescribe to that "angels created by Second Impact" bit, but I've since abandoned the idea -- aren't you proud of me? Though I'm still hard-pressed to come up with a functional idea for how/why Adam created them. (With Lilith and the origins of regular organisms, things are a tad easier.)

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 17:03 GMT

[AchtungAffen [ANF]]

It looks partially destroyed to me.

And also we see the White moon did actually fall on 1st Impact

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2004, 17:14 GMT