Angelic Gender

[Reichu [ANF]]

Traditionally, angels don't have a gender (so how the he11 Satan managed to get it on with Eve and the nephilim got it on with the "daughters of man" is completely beyond me...), and there's no real indication, in my mind, that the angels/shito of NGE diverge from this principle. [Lilith and Adam are "special" -- I'm only talking about #3~#17, or rather, given the dubious nature of "Tabris", #3~#16.] Still, some of them seem to swing more towards the male or the female (such as Sachiel and Zeruel, who, in my opinion, reek of maleness ), which makes me curious...

If you had to categorize the individual angels as being either male or female, which would each be and why? Just for your convenience, here's the list of 'em [incorporating GAINAX's official spellings, mind you]:

3rd - Sachiel - Episodes 1&2
4th - Shamshel - Episode 3
5th - Ramiel - Episodes 5&6
6th - Gaghiel - Episode 8
7th - Israfel - Episode 9
8th - Sandalphon - Episode 10
9th - Matarael - Episode 11
10th - Sahaquiel - Episode 12
11th - Ireul - Episode 13
12th - Leliel - Episode 16
13th - Bardiel - Episode 18
14th - Zeruel - Episode 19
15th - Arael - Episode 22
16th - Armisael - Episode 23

Originally posted on: 06-Sep-2003, 00:22 GMT

[Lord Kuroishi [ANF]]

Sachiel= male, he shows a bit of recklessness.
Shamshel= male, he seems to attack at haste.
Ramiel= none, it's a big friggin' BOX!
Gaghiel= male, again basically judging by attack.
Israfel= both, I noticed that Isfafel had a yin-yang symbol, so I figured... you know the rest.
Sandalphon= hard to tell, it was born too early to tell easily, but I'd have to guess male.
Matariel= female, the acid seemed to make me think so... yes, I know I'm sick.
Sahaquiel= maybe female, but I'm not entirely sure...
Iruel= none, it's a virus supercomputer thingy...
Leliel= female, I heard it somewhere on some website.
Bardiel= not too sure, but being inside an Eva makes me think it's female.
Zeruel= male, need I explain why?
Arael= female, she had an interest for people's thoughts and emotions, it seems like.
Armisael= female, same as above.

This is mostly based on the angels' attack patterns, so I should add this for the record: If I didn't base it on attacks, I'd say they were all female.

Originally posted on: 06-Sep-2003, 00:48 GMT

[saiyajin prince [ANF]]

I would say most of the male except Arael, Armisael, and Matarael.....Arael and Matarael just because of its name and Armisael because it was a female voice that was talking to Rei.

Originally posted on: 06-Sep-2003, 01:51 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Interesting deductions, Starmorpher... I'd always considered female, myself, but not for the reasons you gave. Very interesting.

If I didn't base it on attacks, I'd say they were all female.

Out of curiosity, why would you say they were all female (if you didn't have attack patterns as a point of reference, that is)? I'm really curious now... Truth to tell, the attack patterns aren't 100% reliable (though, for most angels, it's all that we got!): Shamshel is actually female. (I have rather solid evidence for this, and I WOULD link to it here, except it's not exactly "wholesome" ::cough:: ... so I'll PM the link to whoever wants to see it, instead.)

And, hey, who's to say giant floating octahedrons can't be male or female?

Arael and Matarael just because of its name

That doesn't sound terribly conclusive to me...

Originally posted on: 07-Sep-2003, 08:43 GMT

[rei82 [ANF]]

Shamshel is defantely a male because its a giant floating penis

Originally posted on: 07-Sep-2003, 00:36 GMT

[Lord Kuroishi [ANF]]

Interesting deductions, Starmorpher... I'd always considered female, myself, but not for the reasons you gave. Very interesting.



Out of curiosity, why would you say they were all female (if you didn't have attack patterns as a point of reference, that is)? I'm really curious now... Truth to tell, the attack patterns aren't 100% reliable (though, for most angels, it's all that we got!): Shamshel is actually female. (I have rather solid evidence for this, and I WOULD link to it here, except it's not exactly "wholesome" ::cough:: ... so I'll PM the link to whoever wants to see it, instead.)

And, hey, who's to say giant floating octahedrons can't be male or female?

Well, I'd say that they're female because of the nature of the Evas. All of them were built from Adam, and the dominant souls of the first three are female. This may be coincidental, but I believe it would have some meaning in that all the Angels (except Tabris, who has Adam's soul) have female souls.

Originally posted on: 07-Sep-2003, 01:00 GMT

[saiyajin prince [ANF]]

That doesn't sound terribly conclusive to me...

Oh! We were suppose to?

Originally posted on: 07-Sep-2003, 03:25 GMT

[rei82 [ANF]]

yes we speak a bunch of mumbo jumbo here in the Eva forum

Originally posted on: 07-Sep-2003, 19:26 GMT

[Pepperidge [ANF]]

Shamshel is defantely a male because its a giant floating penis

Why doesn't anyone ever acknowledge that?

Originally posted on: 07-Sep-2003, 19:59 GMT

[rei82 [ANF]]

they tend to overlook the obvious

Originally posted on: 08-Sep-2003, 08:02 GMT

[felineki [ANF]]

No, Shamshel's definitely female, I've seen the proof that Rachel is talking about, and it is VERY decisive... It's official, too, since it was drawn by Yoshito Asari.

Originally posted on: 07-Sep-2003, 23:48 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

...and soon as my webspace is working again I'll let EVERYone see!

Originally posted on: 08-Sep-2003, 00:07 GMT

[HimuraProns [ANF]]

went you the person that got angry at me for calling the evas robots, but yet you insist on talking about what gender the angels are?

Originally posted on: 08-Sep-2003, 02:22 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

went you the person that got angry at me for calling the evas robots, but yet you insist on talking about what gender the angels are?

All in good fun. There are a few angels for which I can't decide upon a "gender alignment" (which is something I need to figure out for my doujinshi) and I wanted to see if other people could come up with anything that I hadn't thought of. ::> A lot of the folks here haven't taken a stab at it yet, though... Che.

Anyway, here's the few pages I've found of a doujinshi (or... something...) [EDIT: Durrr, forgot for a sec you can't link to stuff like this... ::removes link and sends PMs::] Yoshitoh Asari (the designer of Sachiel, Shamshel, and Zeruel) did called "Angel Kiss". They seem to show, fairly conclusively in my opinion, what gender he thinks Shamshel is (and Sachiel, for that matter... :naughty.

There are SO many forms that can be considered "phallic" that I find the shape of Shamshel's body rather inconsequential. And, anyway, any phallic associations there get effectively canceled out due to the occurrence of two "heart" shapes in Shamshel's design. [A "heart" <3 is inherently feminine, you know -- thought to be originally derived from the shape of the female buttocks! ::instantly is reminded of AWL's comment on Misato's "bottom"... :twitch:::]

Originally posted on: 08-Sep-2003, 02:50 GMT

[felineki [ANF]]

Eeeeew.... That manga still shocks me every time I see it. Something about Sachi and Sham getting it on is just so.... WRONG. Now, EVA-00 and EVA-03, on the other hand... Oh, and Reichu, ever since you informed me about the origin of the "heart" shape, I've never been able to look at one the same...

Originally posted on: 08-Sep-2003, 03:06 GMT

[saiyajin prince [ANF]]

What the fu_k!!! Doushinjis with angels!!?

Originally posted on: 09-Sep-2003, 00:21 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

That manga still shocks me every time I see it.

I think I've adequately desensitized myself by now.

Something about Sachi and Sham getting it on is just so.... WRONG. Now, EVA-00 and EVA-03, on the other hand...

Yeah, Sachi/Sham sort of has the stigma of being technically incestual... Both "Children of Adam", ergo both siblings. In a sense, though, the Evas are all sisters, which makes 00/03 equally incestual. But, p'shaw -- incest is certainly not a new concept in NGE, is it? To quote the infamous Thumbnail Theatre:

Shinji: Hmm. Maybe I should change my name to Oedipus.

What the fu_k!!! Doushinjis with angels!!?

Well, technically, since doujinshi is a Japanese term, you really can't pluralize it by adding a "-s" to the end (though I can't say I've ever heard of doujinshira or doujinshitachi, so there's probably no real need to pluralize the term at all). ::cough:: That nitpick aside... Hmm, yes, "Angel Kiss" is apparently a real doujinshi, made by Asari-san, one of the many sickoes who worked on "NGE". I would lease my soul to Sammael to get my hands on a copy of it, too!!

BTW, I realized I can TECHNICALLY link to two of the "Angel Kiss" images. If you're really clever, you ought to be able to figure out where I put the dirty ones (if I didn't PM you the URL already).

Shamshel demonstrating a penchant for knitting
Sachi and Sham doing the impossible -- playing little trumpet-things

Originally posted on: 09-Sep-2003, 03:15 GMT

[GandalfsWhisper [ANF]]

sadly I've seen that doujin before (I wasn't looking, I just happened upon it *shudder*).

something about angels having sex bothers me. (aside from the obvious) Sex is an act of reproduction and I don't see why angels would need to reproduce.

Originally posted on: 09-Sep-2003, 04:03 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Frighteningly, a song called "Angel Kiss" randomly appeared on my 11,000-MP3-long Winamp Playlist a few seconds before I clicked the "Post a Reply" button. Pointless coincidences are fun.

sadly I've seen that doujin before (I wasn't looking, I just happened upon it *shudder*).

I just "happened upon it" myself, I think... I can't remember. I just know that I found it on a Russian website. (If that means anything.) Did you see any more of it than what I posted? If so, I'll draw you a free Asuka or Rei hentai image if you can find it again!

something about angels having sex bothers me. (aside from the obvious) Sex is an act of reproduction and I don't see why angels would need to reproduce.

So they can proliferate the universe with their hordes of Evil Angel-Spawn-Minions -- of course!

Or maybe it's because angels are "humans without human form" and, like humans, angels can engage in sexual acts for reasons above and beyond the need for propagation.

Or maybe "discovering" and portraying previously-unimagined forms of sexuality is a valid and potentially highly lucrative art form in Japan, even if that means having a lanky green humanoid straddle his cylindrical and vaguely arthropodic sister. Kink-y.

Originally posted on: 09-Sep-2003, 04:29 GMT

[Crazy Penguin [ANF]]

Well, I'd say that they're female because of the nature of the Evas. All of them were built from Adam, and the dominant souls of the first three are female. This may be coincidental, but I believe it would have some meaning in that all the Angels (except Tabris, who has Adam's soul) have female souls.

Now how can you have a female soul?

Originally posted on: 09-Sep-2003, 07:50 GMT