Unit 00's soul.

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Postby GandalfsWhisper [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:52 pm

(note: continuation of the "Rei's Ghostly Apearences" thread)

Gandalf452 orginally posted this:

In an attempt to not bring this thread any more off topic than it already is, im just gonna say that there are 3 theories concerning Unit-00.

1) Unit-00 has no soul.
2) Unit-00 has the soul of Nanako Akagi. (Ritsuko's mom)
3) Unit-00 has the soul of Rei Ayanami. (This is what I belive, hence my theory posted above.)

Any discussion of the theories really belongs in another thread.



I have been wondering for quite some time if Eva 00 has a soul. I always assumed it was a proto-type and therefore lacked one. I find the idea of it having Nanako Akagi's soul unjustified, as far as I can tell there is nothing hinting towards that in the series (exept perhaps some sort of paralel with Asuka's mother). Of the three theroys presented I find the third to be by far the most interesting.

BTW: how was Lilith's soul given to Rei? It seems to me that the proscess of transfering a soul is beyond human technolgy, if that is true then some non-human being must have somehow provided this technolgy.

Originally posted on: 08-Apr-2003, 19:55 GMT

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Postby Sushi [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:54 pm

Wouldn't Unit 00 have the soul of Naoko Akagi? I mean, think about it. It's always going berserk, and attacking Rei/Gendo when doing so. When Unit(s) 01/02 went berserk, it protected Shinji/Asuka. It's obvious because the souls of their mothers dwell inside the Evangelions, and why wouldn't a mother not want to protect her children? But Naoko Akagi hated Rei, and therefore the Evangelion rejected her in the syncronization tests. She probably hated Gendo too, because of what happened in the past. Eva 00 tried to kill Gendo when he was standing in the window. Do you think it's a coinidence Eva 00 is angry at both Rei and Gendo? If it had the soul of Rei, I doubt it would attack Gendo. So therefore, the logical theory is that Unit 00 has the soul of Naoko Akagi.

Originally posted on: 09-Apr-2003, 08:12 GMT

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Postby AchtungAffen [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:54 pm

This is my analisis on the three theories:
1)Eva 00 has no resident soul:
If Eva 00 has no soul at all, it means its a 'special' Eva. I mean, Evas 01 & 02 do have souls, so the only one of the 'regulars' without it would be Unit 00.
Then, it would probably mean that Rei has some special ability to pilot it, considering all the things that suggest the relation of the pilots and the resident soul, seems like synchro and resident souls are one thing.
But, if Rei has some special 'kaworu' like powers, then, how could Shinji synch with it (ep. 14)? And what is then that something that invades Shinji on the same ep, the thing that came from inside the Eva, if the Eva was empty (soulless)?

2)Naoko Akagi is the resident soul of Eva 00:
This theory is probably based on what we see on ep 14, a berserker Eva 00 hitting the control room where Rei was standing, and considering the previous relationship between Naoko and Rei 001.
We also know that the dummy plug synchs with the Eva because it imitates the pilots brain pattern and that human soul could not be digitalized, and the fact that not any pilot could synch with any Eva. Each Eva had its dedicated pilot, and we know both pilots mother souls dwelled inside Evas 01 & 02. Thus we can discount that there must be a soul in the entry plug to synch and what synchs with the resident soul is the pilots brain patters. Now we can talk about similar brain patterns, because Rei synchs with Eva 01, and Shinji synched with Eva 00. That was possible, as Ritsuko said, because Shinji and Rei's brain patterns where similars. We know that the body of Yui was used to build Rei. So we can assume that Rei has similar brain patterns to both Yui and Shinji (mother and child), because Rei and Shinji swap evas. So, it would have been impossible for Asuka to synch with another Eva, because she has no close blood-bonds to Shinji, Yui or Rei.
So, after this, how then anyone except Ritsuko could have piloted an Eva whose resident soul is Naoko Akagi?

3)Rei 001 is Eva 00 resident soul
This is my favourite. Here's why:
When on ep 14, Eva 00 goes berserk, we see this Shinji dialogue:
Shinji: Ah What is this?
Something is enterin directly in my mind. What is it?
Ayanami? Ayanami Rei? Is it Rei?, this feeling....
Ayanami? Isn't it her?


So, Shinji feels something entering his mind, something wich seems Rei, but its not Rei (that las "it isn't her?" even though it looks like an affirmation, in fact is not. The original Japanese said "Ayanami? chigau no ka?", wich sounds more like a 'False' Ayanami, denotes a difference in general. Chigau means "to differ (from)"). So we know that there must have been a soul in Eva 00 because Shinji could synch with it, it could not be Naoko because of the brain patterns, and we know something that seems Rei but isn't Rei tried to enter Shinji's mind. Rei synchs with Yui and Shinji synchs with... Rei, Rei 001, that's the impression to me, for two reasons: first, Rei 002 doesn't seem to be wacked off like Kyouko after the contact experiment (soul imprint on the Eva, same as Yui's accident), and that bizarre image of Rei we see when Shinji loses control of Eva 00, the last image, a warped chibi looking Rei.

Originally posted on: 09-Apr-2003, 08:54 GMT

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Postby Sushi [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:54 pm

You mentioned Rei having Kaworu-like powers. Kaworu probably had those powers because he was also an Angel, and Rei is not.

Originally posted on: 08-Apr-2003, 21:02 GMT

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Postby Asuka 96018 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:54 pm

If Unit-00 had no soul or possessed the soul of Rei I, then wouldn't the current Rei have a much higher synch rate? Also, this may sound like a dumb question but I just want to double check, Rei is a clone of Yui Ikari with the soul of Lillith, right?

Originally posted on: 08-Apr-2003, 21:03 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:54 pm

No one would have bothered to put Naoko's soul in an EVA, unless they were planning to use Ritsuko as a pilot; in other words, it's nonsense. Not to mention that Naoko is dead as can be; check out the scene of her suicide, she popped like a watermelon tossed from a 5 story building!

Originally posted on: 08-Apr-2003, 21:33 GMT

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Postby Asuka 96018 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:54 pm

...she popped like a watermelon tossed from a 5 story building!



Image Image Image

Originally posted on: 08-Apr-2003, 21:39 GMT

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Postby Siendra [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:54 pm

You mentioned Rei having Kaworu-like powers. Kaworu probably had those powers because he was also an Angel, and Rei is not.



Wrong! Kaworu was created exactley like Rei. Kaworu's powers come from his A.T feild, which is generated by hi soul. Rei, possesing Liliths soul, has the ability to generate a very powerfull A.T feild. The problem with the other powers Kaworu has (Syncing with the Eva without actually being in the plug, ect) is that Rei was never given the necassary time to develop them.


Also, this may sound like a dumb question but I just want to double check, Rei is a clone of Yui Ikari with the soul of Lillith, right?



Yes, thats right.


I agree with the whole "Reis soul is in Zerogouki" theory.

Originally posted on: 08-Apr-2003, 22:41 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:54 pm

Oh Goodie! there hasn't been one of these threads for a while Image

3 Theories on the soul of EVA-00:

Theory 1: Unit-00 is Soulless and its AT-Field is generated by Rei

This can be easily disproved. The Eva needs a soul to for the pilot to synchronise with, There is a chance that Rei could maybe do this without a soul but we see Shinji, an ordinary human sync with EVA-00 in Ep 14. Therefore it must have a soul.

Theory 2: Unit-00 Has the Soul of Naoko Akagi

A popular theory, which can be disproved when the facts are properly looked at.

Evidence:When EVA-00 goes beserk it attacks the control booth where Gendo (who called Naoko an “old hag”) and Rei (who Naoko lost out to and killed) are. She would want to kill them after what they did to her.
Counter Evidence:Naoko had nothing to do with the Eva's. She only worked on the MAGI System.Ritsuko states that EVA-00 is after her “Without a doubt”. Why would Naoko want to kill her daughter. Because Ritsuko is in a relationship with Gendo? How would she know? She's in the Eva so how could she?How would Shinji and Rei be able to sync with EVA-00 if it was Naoko? There would be no mother-child bond

Theory 3: Unit-00 Has the Soul of Rei-1

The most probable option:

Evidence:When Shinji is in EVA-00 he sees an image of a childlike Rei. Maya states that this is coming from the EVA, not the plugWhen EVA-00's core (where the soul is stored) is destroyed in Ep. 23' we see EVA-00 become a giant Rei before destructionRei-1 would want to kill Ritsuko as revenge for Naoko killing her.It explains why Shinji can pilot EVA-00 and Rei can pilot EVA-01 but Asuka can pilot neither.
Counter Evidence and Reasons why its not: (Quotes from MDWigs in italics)Rei-1's soul can't be in EVA-00 as its in Rei-2.The soul imprint theory explains this:

Kyouko's soul was put into Eva-02, yet in order for Kyouko to maintain physical form she must have an AT Field, in order to have an AT Field she must have a soul. Thus Kyouko's soul must have been both in Eva-02 and in her own body at the same time. There must be some allowance for this to happen
Karowu is able to generate an AT-Field and Rei is like him (Clone with Adam's soul, Clone with Lilith's soul). She generated EVA-00's Field.Reasons why not:

Rei cannot pilot Eva-00 the same way Kaoru "pilots" Eva-02, because Kaoru doesn't really "pilot" at all, he directly controls the Eva because 1. It is also "born of Adam" like he is and 2. It's resident soul is hiding.

Also they were planning to use Shinji as a pilot for EVA-00. HE is a normal human. EVA-00 wouldn't be able to generate an AT-Field if hes was the pilot and it had no soul. The AT-Field is the Eva's greatest weapon. Why have pilot that couldn't use it? The Eva would get slaughtered and I don't see NERV wasting a good Eva.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From this it appears that the most likely is Theory 3 - EVA-00 has the soul of Rei-1. It is still never stated though and is so open for debate.

Originally posted on: 08-Apr-2003, 22:44 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:54 pm

AchtungAffen wrote:This is my analisis on the three theories:
1)Eva 00 has no resident soul:
If Eva 00 has no soul at all, it means its a 'special' Eva. I mean, Evas 01 & 02 do have souls, so the only one of the 'regulars' without it would be Unit 00.
Then, it would probably mean that Rei has some special ability to pilot it, considering all the things that suggest the relation of the pilots and the resident soul, seems like synchro and resident souls are one thing.
But, if Rei has some special 'kaworu' like powers, then, how could Shinji synch with it (ep. 14)? And what is then that something that invades Shinji on the same ep, the thing that came from inside the Eva, if the Eva was empty (soulless)?

2)Naoko Akagi is the resident soul of Eva 00:
This theory is probably based on what we see on ep 14, a berserker Eva 00 hitting the control room where Rei was standing, and considering the previous relationship between Naoko and Rei 001.
We also know that the dummy plug synchs with the Eva because it imitates the pilots brain pattern and that human soul could not be digitalized, and the fact that not any pilot could synch with any Eva. Each Eva had its dedicated pilot, and we know both pilots mother souls dwelled inside Evas 01 & 02. Thus we can discount that there must be a soul in the entry plug to synch and what synchs with the resident soul is the pilots brain patters. Now we can talk about similar brain patterns, because Rei synchs with Eva 01, and Shinji synched with Eva 00. That was possible, as Ritsuko said, because Shinji and Rei's brain patterns where similars. We know that the body of Yui was used to build Rei. So we can assume that Rei has similar brain patterns to both Yui and Shinji (mother and child), because Rei and Shinji swap evas. So, it would have been impossible for Asuka to synch with another Eva, because she has no close blood-bonds to Shinji, Yui or Rei.
So, after this, how then anyone except Ritsuko could have piloted an Eva whose resident soul is Naoko Akagi?

3)Rei 001 is Eva 00 resident soul
This is my favourite. Here's why:
When on ep 14, Eva 00 goes berserk, we see this Shinji dialogue:

So, Shinji feels something entering his mind, something wich seems Rei, but its not Rei (that las "it isn't her?" even though it looks like an affirmation, in fact is not. The original Japanese said "Ayanami? chigau no ka?", wich sounds more like a 'False' Ayanami, denotes a difference in general. Chigau means "to differ (from)"). So we know that there must have been a soul in Eva 00 because Shinji could synch with it, it could not be Naoko because of the brain patterns, and we know something that seems Rei but isn't Rei tried to enter Shinji's mind. Rei synchs with Yui and Shinji synchs with... Rei, Rei 001, that's the impression to me, for two reasons: first, Rei 002 doesn't seem to be wacked off like Kyouko after the contact experiment (soul imprint on the Eva, same as Yui's accident), and that bizarre image of Rei we see when Shinji loses control of Eva 00, the last image, a warped chibi looking Rei.



Curses! Image I'm meant to be the one who posts a response like that Image Image

Originally posted on: 08-Apr-2003, 22:45 GMT

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Postby Siendra [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:54 pm

Yeah, that unusual. You always post the huge, long responses.

Originally posted on: 08-Apr-2003, 22:46 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:55 pm

siendra wrote:Yeah, that unusual. You always post the huge, long responses.


I've got something related to this I've been thinking about for a while now, relating to Asuka, EVA-00 and Lilith. I might post it tommorow, once I've collected my thoughts on it into something coherant Image

Originally posted on: 08-Apr-2003, 22:49 GMT

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Postby Siendra [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:55 pm

Asuka, ooo and Lilith? This should be interesting.

Originally posted on: 08-Apr-2003, 22:50 GMT

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Postby GandalfsWhisper [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:55 pm

I've always wondered about how the souls got into the Evangelion, Yui was absorbed into unit 01. If it is the only way for an eva to gain a soul it disproves the posibility that unit 00 had Rei 1's soul or Nanoko Akagi as well as unit 02 having Asuka's mother's soul. I feel that this cannot be the only way for an Evangelion to gain a soul. But how else could it happen.

Originally posted on: 09-Apr-2003, 01:33 GMT

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Postby AchtungAffen [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:55 pm

Some speculate the reason why Rei 001 said the now famous "baasan" to Naoko, was because she had been through a 'contact experiment' and suffering the same side effects as Kyouko.

Originally posted on: 09-Apr-2003, 03:27 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:55 pm

GandalfsStudent wrote:I've always wondered about how the souls got into the Evangelion, Yui was absorbed into unit 01. If it is the only way for an eva to gain a soul it disproves the posibility that unit 00 had Rei 1's soul or Nanoko Akagi as well as unit 02 having Asuka's mother's soul. I feel that this cannot be the only way for an Evangelion to gain a soul. But how else could it happen.


I know what you mean, just what is involved in obtaining a soul, and placing it in another vessel? Is there Special Section of NERV for Black Magic and Necromancy?

Originally posted on: 09-Apr-2003, 03:31 GMT

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Postby subiechan [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:56 pm

i didn't think unit 00 had a soul...




post #500!! Image Image Image Image

Originally posted on: 09-Apr-2003, 03:33 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:56 pm

AchtungAffen wrote:Some speculate the reason why Rei 001 said the now famous "baasan" to Naoko, was because she had been through a 'contact experiment' and suffering the same side effects as Kyouko.


Isn't the simplest explanation that she was parroting what she heard Gendo himself saying; you know, "little pitchers have big ears"?

Originally posted on: 09-Apr-2003, 03:44 GMT

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Postby subiechan [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:56 pm

naoko became the magi, not an eva

Originally posted on: 09-Apr-2003, 03:45 GMT

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Postby AchtungAffen [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:56 pm

subiechan wrote:naoko became the magi, not an eva



Hmm, I don't agree on that. First, have in mind that in the Eva universe, souls cannot be digitized (ep 14), and because of that Naokos soul cannot be in the magis. What she had was a personality transplant to a 7th generation computer (ep13), but her soul, she kept.


Shin-seiki
Isn't the simplest explanation that she was parroting what she heard Gendo himself saying; you know, "little pitchers have big ears"?



But when adding the belief that Rei-001's soul is Eva 00 resident soul, everything has a new light, doesn't it?

Originally posted on: 09-Apr-2003, 04:04 GMT


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