OMF wrote:I'd have to say that you may be too quick in knocking down this "soul font running dry" theory. It would clear up a good many issues, not least of which is the theorised "inevitability" of third impact. If souls really were in short supply, then perhaps humanity's only recourse was to initiate third impact to "replesh" the supply of souls/soul enegry... or something.
You pulled that last line out of thin air, didn't you?
I don't see how 3I would cause something like that: an angel-induced 3I would simply have destroyed humanity. Seele's version doesn't really differ from it very much, as it permanently erases all individuality. And if 3I is aborted, humanity basically returns to its pre-3I status quo.
OMF, It greatly interests me what kind of issues the soul reserve theory (is that an OK name?) supposedly clears, because in my opinion it turns the entire story upside down.
Let's assume that there is some place from where all souls originate. Considering how 3I affected "all life", it must mean that all Terran organisms have some kind of soul which animates them, right? Now, if this soul reserve was indeed running dry, that would mean that the entire biosphere of the planet was on its way to a total extinction. That would make a gigantic plot point, possibly the biggest one in the whole show, don't you think? Why then is this plot point never brought up in the show? Why don't the characters talk about it? Why doesn't it affect to the key players' motives?
If the whole world was dying, then Seele would actually have had a more noble motive for their plan. If they succeeded, at least then one life form would remain, as opposed to none. That would also make Yui and Shinji the bad guys of the story, as they destroyed humanity's only hope of continuing to exist at least in some form.
But this obviously is not the case. When the gramps of Seele talk about their motives, they do not mention any such "lesser of the two evils" cause. Instead, they refer to the world as a "colony of worthlessness" that needs to be purged. Old, impotent cultists chasing after a false immortality because they suck at life.
Talking about motives, also think about the Lake Ashino flashback in the end of EoE: Why does Yui want to become "a proof of humankind's existence"? Because our race is going to wither away in a manner of few years? Nope. "Humans can only live on this planet, but Evangelion can live forever... together with the human soul that dwells within it.
Even after 5 billion years, when the Earth, the Moon, and even the Sun have disappeared, it will still exist as long as even one person still lives." Basically, humanity will continue to live as long as our Earth is in a habitable state. Absolutely nothing about a quick extinction lurking in a near future.
thewayneiac wrote:While I agree with you that these "soulless children" theories are nonsense, I don't agree that Ritsuko is talking about the Reiquarium in ep. 23. She makes 3 relevant statements:
1. Rei has a salvaged soul.
2. The tank Reis have no souls.
3. The chamber of Gauf is empty.
I interpret this as meaning:
"We were originally going to use unborn souls from the Chamber of Gauf for the Reis, (and perhaps for the EVAs as well), but because the Chamber was empty, we were forced to use salvaged souls."
Indeed, the tense here is problematic. When I wrote my initial post, I remembered Ritsuko saying "the chamber is empty", in which case the connection would have been quite clear. But now that I've checked different translations of the scene, I see I was wrong - it's always in a past tense: The chamber "was emptied" or "had been emptied".
And therefore I admit it can't really refer to the Reiquarium.
But Wayne, your theory doesn't make sense: If the entire soul reserve of all living beings was emptied, let's say just before Rei's creation, there shouldn't be any living things left on Earth in 2015. Okay, that "all life forms must have souls" part was only my speculation; but even if we assume that the chamber only contains human souls, the problem doesn't really go anywhere: If no new children had been born in over 10 years, that whould be a massive plot point and definitely mentioned in the show (not to mention that the overall atmosphere everywhere in the world should be suicidally depressed). Two options, ladies and gentlemen: Either Anno miserably fails in storytelling, or some people here are chasing a big fat red herring.
To what does the chamber refer here, then? I haven't really thought this one out completely, but I'd like to propose a new idea: The chamber in this context refers to the "place" where Rei's soul originated - Lilith! When the original Rei was created, the "chamber" was emptied since there were only one soul to begin with, and thus the subsequent clones naturally became soulless. Come on, gimme feedback.
Takumi wrote:It's The Chamber of [b]Guf
Yes... I'll try to remeber that.
OMF wrote:There were Gauf "doors" in the geofront at least. Maybe, there was a place in the geofront that was ferred to as Gauf's chamber, but from Fuyutsuki's tone and the context, I would hold that he is speaking largely metaphorically.
Fuyutsuki:
The Chamber of Guf (Hall of Souls) has been unsealed...
Has the door to the world's beginning and end finally opened?
Why is the Spear of Longinus in NGE called that way? Because of its superficial similarity between the original item - it's a mystical, spear-looking thing that can pierce anything and has also other "magical" properties. Why are both Black and White moons called chambers of Gauf? Because of a same kind of similarity: They're both places where life began, angelic life from the White moon, human (and other Terran) life from the Black Moon. As simple as that.
Originally posted on: 05-Oct-2005, 22:02 GMT
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