Reichu Revelations, Part 1: Yui and Kyoko

[Reichu [ANF]]

[Disclaimer for 2006/04: This thread includes a bit of embarassing material on my part -- namely, the manic ranting. The reason why I was acting so strange is... not important. Supposedly there IS some actual worthwhile theorization/analysis in here, though, so, uh, just try to ignore the adverse influences my mental state had on my writing/behavior as much as possible... ]

INTRODUCTION

During my forum hiatus (which is still partially in effect), I've been contemplating many issues in NGE. The original purpose of such musings was for my NGE fan spin-off "Beyond Eden's Shores" -- which is still in the making and experiencing optimistically routine growth spurts -- which I, as is often the case with fan-fiction, started as a way of forming a "vision" of NGE where all of the problems could be solved, all plot holes filled, and all "wish fulfillment" satisfied. However, despite the many liberties I am taking (including the soul of EVA-00, the nature of the Spear, and the origins of Adam and Lilith), it is still fundamentally based upon the original premise and seeks to conform as much to the themes and "spirit" of the original as possible, while still allowing ample room for the expression of my own ideas and creativity. (That's why it is a "spin-off" and not just another "fan-fic". Ohhhhhh, trust me, it isn't. It so isn't. As far as I'm aware, I am not pulling that assessment out of my posterior, either.)

As it has gone, attempting to create solutions for NGE's problems in this "alternate take" has, lo and behold, yielded stuff that ACTUALLY FITS INTO THE ORIGINAL, 100%. I've been quite pleasantly surprised to, almost passively, watch the pieces fall into place right before my eyes. Very exciting stuff. And who ever said fan-fiction was a waste of time (NIKO!)?

Hopefully my confidence is not completely founded on falsehood, either. That's why I'm going to try to -- finally -- share some of these ideas in the context of the show proper, not my "other" side project. I'm sorry if the subject "Reichu Revelations" sounds like pretentious nonsense; I hope I live up to the "hype" in some way...

I'll start with the smaller of the two items, while throwing in, as asides, various ideas that have been quietly developing over the past few months. I mean, far-off episode commentaries pending, I might as well get them out there. I don't want to be an "idea miser" like SOME people around here. :nudges Shin-seiki in the side and cackles:

PART 1: THE CASE OF YUI & KYOKO

One bit in NGE that has always troubled me -- being the rather "special" fan that I am -- is the fact that Yui, despite the fact that she has an S^2 and can move whenever she so desires, decides to wait until her fellow Eva, and the love of her son's life, are very, miserably dead before she gets her big brown arse in gear. I mean, this never seemed to me like a very "Yui" thing to do. Just think about it! Her dedication to humanity and her willingness to sacrifice so much to do everything within her power to guarantee a future for people that wasn't the one Seele had in mind... That tells us, quite clearly I think, that Yui has the best of intentions and is a very compassionate human being -- even ludicrously so. (Remember "Saint Yui"?)

This is despite the fact that she encounters many "lose-lose situations", dilemmas, along the way, wherein she must choose what she deems the lesser of two evils. For instance, partaking in the slaughter of the Angels, even though she surely must know what they are, or standing by and allowing the situation with EVA-00, Rei 2, and Armisael to go completely down the shi++er. I mean, the latter, especially, is something that was completely within her power to reverse, but she did nothing; was there perhaps a genuine, calculated reason for this, as opposed to simple apathy? I think so. But that's not what this post is about.

Back to the point: She stands by in a bakelite "prison" she has no trouble breaking out of, knowing damn well that Nigouki and Asuka are totally fscked (Asuka's radio transmission is only being blasted on the loudspeakers, and all!). Knowing damn well that the outcome won't be doing her precious little boy any favors. But, for Yui, this is another lose-lose situation -- and, strange as it might sound, her duties to Shinji are what win out.

Before I begin to explain, let's consider one very important observation:

Yui is one of the very few people who actually knows what's going on. She knows what Seele is up to and she knows how to stop them. Not too many people can say the same thing! And she has demonstrated herself to be quite perceptive on many other levels, as well. (I'll eventually extract the proofs from my head, in case people don't believe me.) So, we shall proceed with the fairly logical assessment that Yui is not one to be underestimated in any way, shape, or form.

Here is a series of logical processions to demonstrate why Yui's "lack of punctuality" may have, in fact, been a passive act of compassion -- good intentions towards both Shinji and Kyoko (Asuka is more complicated), however ugly the results were due to her lack of involvement. And all of this is going somewhere, even if it at first doesn't seem to be...

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 04:17 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Point 1: Yui knew Kyoko

One can deduce that they were both colleagues back in the Glory Days of Gehirn: Yui was the mastermind behind Project E, and Kyoko was the one who continued Yui's work with the "next generation" Eva.^1 The D&R Program Book tells us, "[Nigouki] was designed and the components were manufactured in Japan, but the final assembly and activation tests were carried out in Germany." We need only to reinterprete that statement slightly -- with the knowledge in hand that the Evas are not dad-gum machines, already!!!-- to get an idea of what was really behind the creation of EVA-02. So, here goes:

Firstly, EVA-02 was engineered and grown at the Hakone AEL (Artificial Evolution Laboratory) with Kyoko's involvement. (If she had Asuka with her -- however neglected by her mother the child may have been -- this also quite neatly explains Asuka's fluency in Japanese.)^2 Both Yui and Kyoko were working in Japan -- and, unless Kyoko was actually at Matsushiro (what the hell do they do there, anyway?), they were obviously working together, or, at the very least, they were "in touch". After Nigouki was successfully "cultivated" (i.e., they had a big, blue, four-eyed naked Eva in a rather large "artificial uterus"), the Eva and those who were to continue working on her were transferred over to the Hamburg AEL.^3 Seele knows why.

Secondly, EVA-02 was subsequently "assembled" in Germany. You know, since the restraints and 'armor' are an actual part of the Eva and all, and the part that they grew from a wee ovum is just the "organic component". </sardonicism> New technologies were developed, and old ones improved, for "taming the Beast", and the Eva was "fitted" (or "raped and imprisoned", alternatively) accordingly. Tests -- and possibly scandals... (which I'll get to) -- followed. And we know what happened after that... right, kids?

"Well, Soryu-senpai, I guess we're colleagues again, after all! How about that!"

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 04:22 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Point 2: Kyoko ain't no Yui

We know Yui's motives quite well: She WANTED that hawt 'n' secxse Eva body. But Kyoko? I think most would agree that it is NOT what she had in mind. In fact, it is as far removed from what she had in mind as could be imagined -- however ironically appropriate, you know, for a mad scientist to be, ahem, "consumed" by her work. (Gah-hah-hahh!)

But, after what happened with Yui, the risk of taking a swim in an empty Eva core surely couldn't have been a secret anymore. Even if Gendo was too busy sobbing "like a little girl" (when no one was looking, of course) to figure it out, Kozo knew what Yui did and how she had done it. His role as her confidant certainly couldn't have been a secret, either. I'm willing to bet that Old Man Keel called him in for a little "chat" after Yui's "accident", demanding (in his oh-so-amiable way) to know how That Perfidious Woman so cleverly dodged the consumation of her own blacklisting. (The virtual perfection of Yui's solution just further proves her genius, IMO.)

Keel "And if you don't tell us, Good Professor... Well, you know, I have met a couple of rather talented metaphysical biology professors at the University who I find rather more attractive than you."
Kozo "Grumph. I wasn't aware you hired me on the basis of my ravishing good looks."
Keel "I didn't. Although I might have done so for a certain reject in the Institute for Advanced Energy who I... 'enlisted' before sending him to his death. A shame, really. He was such a good l-- Er, I mean, he had reached the end of his usefulness anyway. Kind of like how you'll end up, if you don't spill the beans. :mumbles: But who needs that bumbling femme Akira... Soon, I'll have something even better... :rubs hands together schemingly:"
Kozo " (And Gendo is friends with this guy?!?)"
Keel ":returns to reality: To the point, Fuyutsuki-sensei. Let me make this crystal clear for you, since, despite your academic distinction, what I'm telling you doesn't seem to be registering. You have two choices: (A) Tell us ex-act-ly what Ikari-hakase was up to, or (B) Prepare to find yourself face-down in a nice ditch somewhere making friends with the local worms."
Kozo ":sardonically: That almost sounds like a threat, Herr Lorenz."
Keel ":sharply: It better!"
Kozo (MONO) "Damn straight it does...! This is the second time, too! And I didn't even do anything wrong -- can't the old bastard just leave me alone?!? Well, let me consider my options. How can I better service Yui-kun? Should I refuse and leave her to Gendo's pathological obsessions and Seele's ruthless machinations? No -- that's not what I agreed to do when I signed up for this. I can't let Yui-kun down, even IF she never let me touch her b--... Well, nevermind that. I am a disciplined and principled man, unlike some. I can survive. Yui-kun would certainly prefer that I reveal the Secret of Soul Suckage than get shot in the back. Well, here goes..."

So, Seele finds out the secret and proceeds to apply it to the next Eva. (And... might there be a certain somebody who ESPECIALLY stands to benefit from this juicy tidbit...?^4)

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 04:27 GMT

[Fuzzy Chickens [ANF]]

How about a one-paragraph summary for those of us who don't want to read a bunch of crap about how hot Unit 01 is?

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 04:40 GMT

[The Eva Monkey [ANF]]

How about a one-paragraph summary for those of us who don't want to read a bunch of crap about how hot Unit 01 is?

How about you let her get to the point before you decide to be a humongous jackass?

Seriously. Not cool. I've missed Rachel around these parts. Don't discourage her.

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 04:53 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Before we proceed, let's get the first few footnotes out of the way, since I bet you just can't wait to know what they are:

FOOTNOTE 1: On Eva Restraints and the Final Combat of Team Soryu

That Nigouki was the "next grade up" from Shogouki, incorporating new technologies and all, might explain why Kyoko was never (that we know of, anyway) able to truly overcome her restraints (Yui-style) and fully override the pilot's control. Yui is 1337 enough to effectively sever all connections between herself and Shinji -- it's only because she cares -- and even "eject" the plug from her core. Then, she DOES have more than one advantage in her favor...

EVA-00 demonstrates that Nerv does not bother "upgrading" the old-sk00l Evas unless Seele is somehow motivated to dish over the funding (but not without moaning and bitching a lot, of course). In Zero's case, she was deep-fried by Ramiel's Heat Ray of Death* and, as a result, needed some SERIOUS rehab, and that, of course, required $$$. The trashed artificial components needed to be replaced. Plus, after getting the girl stripped down, they needed to dunk her into one of those giant tanks, sic the Scuba Dudes on her, and babble about mitosis, necrosis, apoptosis, and halitosis until she was in top form once again. The whole ordeal provided a most convenient excuse to swap some improved parts (remember, Evas are just mindless machines!) in for the crappy old ones. Except Seele, mysteriously, flaked out before Nerv could do anything about the somewhat outdated (and demonstrably defective) restraint technology...

EVA-01 was, I suspect, "well-behaved" up until her Call to Action. Even after Yui starts to fulfill her Discovery Channel fantasies, she's still "well-behaved", in a sense: She gets the Angels killed and lets the Recovery Team take her away and lock her up afterwards. So, hey, she's got nothing to worry about! That Yui -- she's a trixty one!

It is quite clear, considering all this, that Sadamoto's take on the #19-#20 Interim simply DOES NOT work. Yui let herself be recaptured intentionally: partially because rampaging around like a traditional daikaijuu doesn't serve her interests in any way whatsoever (unlike, say, lustfully devouring the contents of Zeruel's giant, red, uber-sexy core; there's just a LITTLE kink going on in that scene, don't you think? ), but also so that they wouldn't pile her down with more high-tech restraints -- only put her "under surveillance". Or "time-out", one might say, for being such a Naughty Girl. Not that Gendo would allow Them to upgrade his honey's bondage gear -- never without a fight, or some typical Gendo "tee hee, dance puppets dance!" cunning, at any rate.

But back to Kyoko! What we are shown in #25' heavily implies that Kyoko could only fight by using Asuka as a bridge between her core and her body. (There is even a symbolic visual confirmation of this that we are shown the exact moment before EVA-02 awakens. More on that later.) It might be similar to how Bardiel could not establish control over EVA-03 until the entry plug was inserted, completing the neural circuit, as Bardiel's means of control seemed to have been staged around the Eva's central nervous system -- and, not being the Resident Soul, he presumably didn't have access to the Bag of Tricks that comes with that qualification. (I'm up in the air about whether an entry plug sufficed or if Toji was actually required, however. Bardiel clearly didn't want the entry plug to be ejected, in any case.) The fact that EVA-02 is heard vocalizing is a huge clue: The Evas only ever do this if they are not under the control (at least, not completely) of a regular pilot. I believe that #25' fits into this scheme, because what happens during the Final Combat of Team Soryu is not normal.

I reiterate:This is not normal pilot-Eva synchronization we see. Kyoko is roaring and grunting. EVA-02 reawakens with a giant cross-shaped blast (just like EVA-01 when she ascends from her Prison to finally take on the Ultimate Forces of Evil... with her son only a passive passenger this time). We see ATF Magic being used on a level that is only ever seen elsewhere when Yui takes the reins. (With regard to the "original" Eva Team, at any rate.) Despite how ridiculous Takeshi Honda made her look for the big screen, this is Nigouki at her finest.

My suspicion: Asuka, whether or not she realizes it in her elation (and subsequent descent into veritable madness), is being "puppeted". "Mama" is telling her what to do, and Asuka is passing on her instructions to Kyoko's body -- and, damn, does she "get into it" or what? (This is despite the fact that her "performance" would look absolutely ridiculous were the camera actually stationary.) Plus, it's the least she can do to pay back for the protection only Mama can provide, without which Asuka would have gotten screwed by Seele's toadies ten times as quickly.

The unusual nature of this case may also provide more than sufficient explanation for the effed-up stuff that happens once Kyoko is down...

* Hey, it's a Kentucky Fried Rei we didn't acknowledge! Awesomeness! The acronym's usefulness expands!

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 05:01 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Sorry, my dear Fuzzy, but the reason I am going through these proofs in the first place is persactly because I know people will say, "WTF are you talking about?" without them. Tiers of Logic. Planning Ahead. Capische?

And thank you, Aaron-kun. Such touching words. I may weep openly!

Okay, moving right along. (BTW, the delay between posts is due to me looking back over my draft and tidying things up. Agonizing, I know, but I'll let you know when I've finished tonight's "session". It is damn far from the last...)

________________________________________ __________________________

FOOTNOTE 2: On Asuka's American Citizenship

This is scarcely related to the statement it is attached to, but I felt like getting it out, just as a random tidbit. It's real quick.

We might deduce that Kyoko was working on something in the States (for whatever period of time) circa 2000, 2001. We do know that Kyoko was definitely there when she gave birth to Asuka, since official sources tell us that Asuka is an American citizen. (I have a few lying around here that I can pull out if it is required.) It is also possible that she met "Papa Langley" during her time there, and they since moved to Germany and Japan and back again (or to Japan and then Germany -- whichever one best explains Asuka's initial cultural outlook when she moves to Tokyo-3).

FOOTNOTE 3: Hamburg vs. Berlin

I say "Hamburg" because I think Seele is the one located in Berlin. I think this is a fairly logical deduction: Berlin is, of course, the capital of Deutschland, and it's more appropriate for the "soul" of the organizations plotting the fate of the world to be located in an important place like a capital. Sort of like how Nerv Headquarters is located in the so-called capital of Japan. So what if Seele decided to locate their "brains" elsewhere? Seele would have their own MAGI system because -- geez, why the hell not?!?

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 05:10 GMT

[Fuzzy Chickens [ANF]]

persactly?

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 05:17 GMT

[The Eva Monkey [ANF]]

persactly?

Don't make me put my foot up your ***.

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 05:42 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

FOOTNOTE 4, Part 1: "So different, yet so similar."

One pet theory of mine is that Papa Langley is actually a hotshot who enjoys a good standing with Seele* and Gehirn/Nerv -- rather suspiciously like Gendo. This is based on the concept of the twisted parallelism (might not be the right word) between Shinji and Asuka. Both children of Project E scientists. Both "motherless". Both "abandoned" by their fathers: Asuka emotionally, Shinji all-around. To compensate for this thematic imbalance, Shinji's mother was totally cool and completely dedicated to him**, whereas Asuka's mother was somewhat neglectful of her daughter (see: the scientists attending her funeral) and planted some totally fscked-up psychological complices into Asuka's skull (though that might not have been COMPLETELY her fault...).

There may be other things I can't think of right now. In any case, despite the attacks of anti-shippers (here's looking at you, 'Tines), Shinji and Asuka are absolutely depicted in the show as being inseparably intertwined. They could even be considered "complementary". That is, wherever they don't "line up", what is missing in one is made up for in the other, more or less. Shinji and Asuka are like two pieces of paper that were originally a single leaf, irregularly cut down the middle. Two halves of a whole.

This concept clearly relates to the whole Seele thing about humans being screwed so long as individuality exists, "So let's just meld everyone together and we'll be one big happy family!" (Niko, you forged a really wild and wacky description for HIP, but I can't remember it right now! ARGH!!!) So long as Shinji and Asuka are separate people, of course they're going to have to "work at it" -- as long as the invisible handcuffs Anno wrote into their characters are in place. Sure, if you're writing fanfiction or playing a crappy dating sim you can take those handcuffs off, but we're talking about the actual SHOW, mmkay? Anno's insanity overrules all else!

But, in actuality, all that is not the point -- simply the basis for my reasoning. So if this turns into another horrible A/S debate, I will officially become a homicidal maniac: If you moan and bitch about my logic, I will impale you on a stake, flay you alive, bathe in your blood, and turn your organs into jewelry. </irony> Hence, we now move onward and upward!

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 05:46 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Yes, Fuzzy. PERSACTLY!!
________________________________________ ________________________

FOOTNOTE 4, Part 2: "Shinji-kun's father... Is he like me?"

Papa Langley, if he is who I think he is, is almost certainly the underlying force behind Kyoko's ... "accident". I mean, is there any particular reason why she, the Eva's figurative mother ("I'm my own Mama! It sounds funny, I know, but it really is so!..."), had to be the one to perform Contact? If the Secret of Soul Suckage remained a secret held only by a select few (the guys pulling the world's strings), Yui's "accident" surely couldn't have been. If you worked on Project E, how could you not have heard about it? It was even in newspapers, for crissake!

Kyoko didn't want to be an Eva. Despite being a little nutty (which is pretty much a requirement for employment at Gehirn/Nerv -- "are only weirdoes allowed to work here?"), she apparently had plans of her own. Stuff to do. New indigo-blooded monsters to create. Dolls to decapitate. All that jive. So, knowing that the last person who had engaged in a Contact Experiment ended up legally dead as a result of some "horrible and unforseen accident", why on Earth would she want to take the risk?

Hubris? Maybe. But consider this. If one follows the premise of A/S parallelism (which bears far too much fruit for me to abandon), it makes perfect thematic sense if Papa Langley is somehow responsible for "motivating" Kyoko's decision. Yes, one can assume that she did it voluntarily in the end, but who convinced her to do it? And, exactly, why...?

We know for a fact that Langley had no particular attachment to his wife (at least, not anymore, assuming he ever did). Sort of like Gendo and Naoko, Kyoko had, as far as he was concerned, outlived her usefulness. Was she hindering his plans in any particular way? We can't say anything about the "professional" arena, but we do know about the personal one. (See: Flashbacks in #22 and #25.) His commitment to his wife and daughter were slipshod at best. If Deranged Kyoko is right, he may have only ever "recruited" her in the first place because of her brain. Again, similar to Gendo humoring Naoko -- only he never went to the trouble of marrying her. (But Ritsuko's dad obviously wasn't around, so I suppose we can deduce that Naoko wasn't particularly interested in that possibility anyway.)

When EVA-02 was all ready for the finishing touch, somebody needed to be the Sacrifice. And who better than Langley's beloved wife?

Papa L "Oh, hey, Kyoko! ...Sweetie! You know, I -really- think you should do the Contact Experiment yourself! I mean, it's only right, isn't it? That Eva is your baby. She deserves to meet her Mama. Don't you think?"
Kyoko "Hmm... I guess you may be right, Juli... I feel confident that we won't make the same mistake as those idiots in Hakone."
Papa L "Pffft! Of course not. Why? Because we're Germans, that's why! And we're BETTER!"
Kyoko "I am, Dear. You're not."
Papa L ":waterfall tears: Can't I pretend?"

Okay, well, moving on... Papa Langley surely must have been "pleasantly surprised" with the way things turn out. I mean, things just went absolutely IMPECCABLY. Okay, so, yes, they technically didn't make the same "mistake" as Hakone AEL. They got a different outcome: A complete Eva, and a deranged Kyoko shell.***

Papa L (MONO) "Oh, darn, Kyoko decided to leave me something to remember her by... That's too bad. Nice thing her doctor is hawt. Ooo, and intelligent too. And just look at the way she's checking me out...! I'm tingling all over!"
(ON) "Hey, Frau-Doktor, this stuff about dolls and God is quite interesting. How about we take it into the empty room next door? Asuka's good and busy watching Kyoko's freak show. She won't even notice we're missing! Here, let me help you with that uniform..."

I'm sure Langley wasn't mourning when Kyoko found a way to kill herself (and apparently take her "daughter" with her, if the deranged depths of Asuka's memories are to be believed****). I'm sure he was pleased, as well, with the whole thing about children piloting their mothers (a finding that I actually suspect Third Branch discovered themselves; that, however, is an idea for another time...).

Papa L (MONO) "Okay, so the babe is right. I can't stop being her dad. It's a shame, but it's true. Even so... this way, the organization will take of my little girl. She's a valuable asset that they need to maintain. I don't have to do anything anymore!"
(ON) "So... hey, Frau-Doktor... How about you and me get funky!"
Frau-Doktor "Oh, Juli, you're such a love machine!"
Papa L "I am with you, mein Leibchen. But that Kyoko tramp got slender pickins'."
Frau-Doktor "Is this what you call 'slender'?" :giggles: "You're such a horrible man, Juli! I love it!"
Papa L "Let me show you just how horrible I really am..."
Frau-Doktor "AHHHHHH! <3"

Okay, enough of that. To get back to the Langley-Gendo dynamic -- consider this, and the final piece ought to fit into place. Kyoko voluntarily became an experimentee, and she officially killed herself. Even though it was "everything going according to plan" for Papa Langley, he got off scott-free. Anyone who suspected he was behind the experiment's outcome wouldn't have anything on him.

Contrast this with the outcome of Yui's experiment. For Yui, it was "everything going according to plan", but it sure didn't look that way to anyone else (except Kozo). It was, as we know, labeled a "freak accident"... and what bullshit propaganda was fed to the public?

"He killed his own wife!"

I probably don't need to tell you that this is absolute nonsense. If Gendo had known what Yui was up to -- well, let's just say that Yui's "Operation Save Humanity" would have become a WEE bit more complicated than it was in the first place.

When it comes to how they view their wives, Gendo and Langley are opposing forces. Sort of like how their wives viewed their respective children.

________________________________________ ______________________

* It would have been cool if his seiyuu was recycled for one of the Monolith Dudes, but it isn't. But fair enough -- Gendo was never a Monolith Dude, either.

** She found time for both work AND motherhood, at least until the Time came and Shinji had to suffer the consequences -- albeit for the sake of his own future. I guess for Yui, "work" and motherhood are inseparably intertwined...

*** I know OMF doesn't buy into this, but it's something I think I am en route to finally solving. More on that later.

**** Oooo, hold that thought... I just got an idea that totally explains Kyoko's Doll Fetish...

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 06:23 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Okay... okay... must restrain compulsion to remove all typos from what I've written... :huff huff:

The above took HOURS to type out and organize into a cohesive essay, so, understandably, I'm completely burnt out for tonight. But that should, hopefully, get some of my latest (and greatest?) ideas into the arena, and provide some rather cruel teasers as to what is eventually to come.

I will attempt to answer the question in Part 1 within the next couple of days.

And now, for further cruel teasers:

Part 2: Gendo's Retribution
This is rather less complicated, but it involves me completing another "temp CP"* (e.g., go here and scroll down to the relevant heading-- I'll put "add a goddam anchor" onto my queue). All it entails is unveiling a somewhat... interesting visual hint that the crazy boys of Gainax snuck into a VERY important, and much disputed, little scene to let us know how we're supposed to ultimately interpret it. Shin-seiki, you probably know what I'm talking about. And you, too, Dr. Nick. But, shhhh -- don't say a THING!

Okay, the teaser for Part 3, coming up next... Will this night of madness never end?

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 07:13 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Okay, I lied. The "exclusive preview" needs its own thread, so take a look here.

This wraps up my work on this thread, for the moment. Feel free to discuss. You can even try guessing where I'm taking all of this. Hell, go for it! It will save me work later! And I've got enough on this Sahaquiel-sized platter as it is!

Have fun, kids!

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 07:58 GMT

[Oryval [ANF]]

I never really thought about Papa Langley and all this stuff about him is very interesting, and must have some truth in it. Interesting as barely a minute of flashback can be this revealing.

I, as you, thought about the restrains of the EVA and even if it wasn't as well developed as your essay, I agree for the most part with you. I'm not really sure if Yui was really conscious in her EVA, but now when I read your arguments and 'kind-of' proof, it leads to reflection.

But Unit-00 didn't have restains as strong as Unit-01, but somehow the soul inside didn't control the EVA, and barely go berserk sometimes during activation. It's rather uncanny in relation to your essay.

As for the awakening of EVA Unit-02 in the first part of 'End of Evangelion', it's shown as some kind of co-operation between the EVA and the pilot [roaring&co].

It's clearly said in the series that EVA-02's armor [&restains?] is stronger than EVA-01's, hence not full control, but a partial one, even if Asuka has definitely some skills, there is a very large gap between her abilities in the serie and in the movie, some movements she made were certainly too complicated to be executed by an EVA, and they were very fluids, almost humans, it was certainly Kyoko-sama's touch there.

=====

Anyway, even if you have some merit I don't think that the soul in the EVA are really aware, I think it functions more as instincts, a presence, or Yui can make a very good imitation of a beast [&ape?] against the 14th. Yui gave a hand to Shinji in the movie because she sensed his desperation and felt the need to help him, as she felt the need to protect him in episode01 or in her berserker states.

The same [more or less] can be said about Asuka's fight against the harpies, where I prefer to think that Asuka has made some kind of bound with the soul of her mother in the movie, maybe a consequence of the mental-rape. Kyoko's mother 'sensed' the distress (understatement) of her daughter and tried to comfort her. Afterwards somehow their souls connected with each other hence the full control that Asuka's was having in her EVA. The roaring and the cross-shaped explosion were the consequences of the will of Kyoko-sama to defend her daughter against the aggressors.

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 11:32 GMT

[Mr. Tines [ANF]]

Magnificent work here, Rei-chan! It will take some time to absorb and provide sensible comment on - and possibly it will need the whole picture.

One point worth noting now about footnote 1, though, since this gives opportunity:

they needed to dunk her into one of those giant tanks, sic the Scuba Dudes on her, and babble about mitosis, necrosis, and apotheosis until she was in top form once again.

The DC sub fixes this to the much more plausible apoptosis i.e. controlled cell suicide, as happens when "scaffolding" is taken down, to leave the new-completed structure that was being supported or nourished by that matrix.

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 13:02 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

I never really thought about Papa Langley and all this stuff about him is very interesting, and must have some truth in it. Interesting as barely a minute of flashback can be this revealing.

And that, right there, is the Magic of "Evangelion".

I, as you, thought about the restrains of the EVA and even if it wasn't as well developed as your essay, I agree for the most part with you. I'm not really sure if Yui was really conscious in her EVA, but now when I read your arguments and 'kind-of' proof, it leads to reflection.

What do you mean, "kind-of"? I haven't gotten around to addressing the full picture yet, but I think most of what I've said so far has plenty of evidence in its favor. Let me know if you need more in a specific arena.

But Unit-00 didn't have restains as strong as Unit-01, but somehow the soul inside didn't control the EVA, and barely go berserk sometimes during activation.

EVA-00's soul didn't control her during the "berserk" incidences? That didn't seem to be the case, last time I checked...

As for the awakening of EVA Unit-02 in the first part of 'End of Evangelion', it's shown as some kind of co-operation between the EVA and the pilot [roaring&co]

For the reasons I stated. Think about it like this: Yui "kicks Shinji out" when she takes over. Why do you think this is? EoE does demonstrate that she CAN be in control with Shinji still connected to her. (I'm not sure why she does this in the movie -- I'm sure she has her reasons. She always does.) But prior to that, all evidence suggests that she cuts him off. (See: technobabble in episode #02.) This is actually a Good Thing. Think about the stress that Eva synchronization has on a pilot and maybe you'll see my point.

That said, since Kyoko apparently does care about Asuka, deep down, why on Earth would she want Asuka to be open to her own pain and the neurological (even physical...) stress of piloting? Why not defend her daughter WITHOUT putting Asuka herself at risk? Maybe because there was no other way.

some movements she made were certainly too complicated to be executed by an EVA, and they were very fluids, almost humans, it was certainly Kyoko-sama's touch there.

I don't understand? The Evas are the ones who DO the complicated stunts. They have access to powers that the pilots simply DON'T.

Anyway, even if you have some merit I don't think that the soul in the EVA are really aware, I think it functions more as instincts, a presence, or Yui can make a very good imitation of a beast [&ape?] against the 14th.

You don't think they're aware? Ohhhh, I beg to differ. They're as aware as you or me, even if they don't give any sign of it (mostly because it's kind of hard for them, for obvious reasons). It is not just a "presence". Yui is effectively EVA-01, just the same way that Lilith is effectively Rei. (But that goes into metabiological terrain I'm going to skirt right now.) Are you going to tell me that Rei is not "aware", just because her soul isn't in the vessel of its origin? (Well, depends on how you want to define "aware".) And unlike Rei, Yui went into the Eva possessing her memories and knowing fully who she was and where she is heading.

Yui gave a hand to Shinji in the movie because she sensed his desperation and felt the need to help him, as she felt the need to protect him in episode01 or in her berserker states.

In the latter case, Yui also had an obligation to take care of the Angels, being as it was an unfortunate but necessary prerequisite to her primary mission. Protecting Shinji was just part of it. But, you could say that Yui was "protecting" Shinji regardless of whether or not she was fighting with him safe inside... For her, Shinji symbolizes the future that she is fighting to protect. "That is why I am with Seele... For Shinji's sake." (I think that translation might be off a little, but it serves its purpose for now.)

In the movie, she really was not giving Shinji a "hand" at all. She was taking him straight into the Hell of Third Impact -- and quite aware of what she was getting them both into. Although it wasn't clear to me for a long time, I think I understand now why on Earth Yui would do something that seems, off the bat, to be completely batshit crazy: Like, say, throwing herself right into Seele's clutches. Yeah, why WOULD she do that? As always... Yui has her reasons...

You have to remember: Why is Yui in the Eva? What are her motives? What is she trying to do? What does she succeed in doing, and how? If these points are unclear to you, I suppose I can elaborate at some point. I've done it in the past; it used to be standard policy to assume Yui was batshit crazy until I set everybody right. (That was me, wasn't it?) But that's a whole essay in and of itself, and one best tackled after translating the script for the key scenes, since those things are usually quite awesome when it comes to clearing this insane mythos up.

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 13:08 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

POINT 3: "Please die with me!"

This part is a bit less refined, considering most of the ideas for it only started to come into focus with my realization about the significance of the doll motif... But we can extract the dirt from the water later. This is just "food for thought".

Reiterating an important point: Kyoko didn't enjoy being an Eva. (She makes this pretty obvious ESPECIALLY with her behavior after Arael's mind-hack, which Kyoko was the initial target of, before Arael found the "toy inside the box", as it were.) I don't think she had the slightest intention of "pulling a Yui".* What option was there for her, really? Was there any guarantee for her that she'd be able to be a normal woman again? (But hold onto that thought.) Probably not as far as she was aware. How was she going to get her body back? Her life? Her career? Who was going to help her with that? She was $#1+ out of luck, any way you looked at it. Protecting Asuka was, at that point, her only reason for existing. There was nothing else.

Kyoko probably had an inkling that they were both going to die that day. Like the title says -- it was the End. Everything would be decided there. Did Kyoko even know what the hell she was fighting for? Was there any real purpose to it, aside from blowing stuff up and tearing things apart? Wasn't there any other way to protect Asuka, since that was, apparently, her only real purpose? Who knows. I think it's a safe bet that Kyoko was harboring just a little bit of a death wish: I don't think her psychological complices are any secret, thanks to the empty shell that went and revealed all of them without Kyoko's permission.

Kyoko's strength in life may have, much like her daughter's, come from one thing: Displaying her talent to the world. I mean, just look at the Eva she came up with. Is that something a humble, just-doing-my-job bioengineer would "design"? Hell no! Kyoko's work says much about its creator, and Kyoko seemed to be as much of a show-off as Asuka. Why stop with just a run-of-the-mill Eva? Let's mess around with her blood composition! And I bet four eyes would look real swell, too! (Although the four eyes may have just been an inadvertant effect of Kyoko's mad tinkering... No way to know, really, but it IS an established fact that the Eva's eyes are pretty much "for show".) Kyoko had the nerve to go against the grain and be a pioneer. Maybe even waste a lot of Keel's money, too.**

That's quite a lot of extrapolation, but it fits. Kyoko's confidence was absolutely precarious; it ought to be safe to say that her work was the only thing sustaining her. She knew that her husband didn't love her. And she knew that she was a poor mother -- although she clutched onto the concept of Asuka like a child clutching a doll. What it is with dolls, anyway? Why are Asuka and dolls inseparably linked, in Kyoko's mind? Well, think about it. Langley and his lover give it all away. What is a doll? An inanimate object created in the likeness of a human. What is its purpose? A play-thing. In some cases, something that is intended only for show: It is there to look pretty. Provide human pleasure without asking for anything in return. (Good grief...) If Kyoko was devoted to research, why on Earth did she have a child? Because her motivations were a classical case of misguided motherhood.

"They're like a doll mother and a doll daughter."

I don't think this would be an isolated instance of a woman having a child just to have a miniature version of herself around to look pretty and cute, without considering the obligation that a child represents. But that is exactly it: Kyoko expected no more of Asuka than that. And, just like a doll, she did not expect that she would need to provide Asuka any nurturing or maintanence. As long as she was there and did as she was told, that was all that Kyoko cared about. "You're just my doll. So do what I tell you to, and don't say 'no'."

Perhaps until she went batshit crazy, Kyoko did not make her attitude so obvious. She was simply a "neglectful mother". But with the psychological collapse caused by you-know-what, Kyoko lets us know what she was really thinking. Without her work and without a source of love, Kyoko had nothing left but her "doll". Asuka, or the symbol she represented, had been reduced to a source of comfort for an irreparably insane woman. And Kyoko, still, considered her daughter to be nothing more than a little version of herself, without thoughts of her own, without dreams or desires of her own. When Kyoko lost the will to live (something that may have eventually happened even without the catalyst of, you know, losing her soul and all), Asuka no longer needed to exist. She would "save" her doll from the apathetic husband. "So die together with Mama. Papa no longer needs us."

Kyoko doesn't know what she wants, quite clearly. Does she want to live or die? Does she want her DAUGHTER to live or die? Why does she tell Asuka to live, again and again, only to throw in the obligatory, "Please die with me!"? Did she just want Asuka to live long enough so that they COULD die together? Was that Kyoko's ultimate wish? To go out together in a blaze of glory?

When reality caught up, it wasn't too surprising that Kyoko would suddenly "change her mind" at the last possible second. But, by then, it was too late.

--------------------

* You know, not only destroying Seele's plans once and for all -- and hoping like mad the people of Earth will rebuild once again, after all the crap you had put yourself through -- but hot-footing it off the planet to, one could say, "carry on the legacy". Remember who Shogouki's "parents" are (one biological, one surrogate). She's kind of obligated to carry on the family business, no? It's the least Yui can do for the "necessary evils" she had rendered upon them both -- but especially Lilith.

** "That loathsome Evangelion." Perhaps the brutality of the harpies' attack was something he had, in fact, ordered... "She hurt my babies! So much for good sportsmanship -- Soryu has made Keel angry for the last time. Now that bitch will SUFFER!! Sic, girls! While she's down!"

--------------------

That probably needs to be badly edited, but I'm very tired. I'll do it later...

More to come later. The next point may be the final leg of the journey. We'll see.

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 15:14 GMT

[Magami No ER [ANF]]

Excellent reads, I love this stuff.
There's nothing wrong with filliing in the unknown with what we're presented, with the most probable conclusions. Better then forgeting and moving own, to those who wamt to continue to enjoy the series, even after the end. Oh, and <3 Akira. XD

The Kyouko you describe just....seems more understandable(abiet seen less) then the (OC) manga, where she strangles young Asuka....though who knows, maybe she wanted Asuka to die first, before her own hanging. But I haven't read vol 9 in English yet.....I really shouldn't say more. In anycase, Sadamoto doesn't seem to like her much(compared to Rei), he might've wanted to draw that.^^;
Oh, and Juli? When was this annouced?

Edit: I just got the urge to redraw Akira now because of this...and general, fresh look on Eva in general.....yay.^^
But Amuro X Frau Bow(I should say XXX ) have my skillz to attend to before that.

Originally posted on: 24-Dec-2005, 17:58 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Oh, and Juli? When was this annouced?

"Juli" just comes from my own name for ol' Langley, since he's never given one. "Julian" is the name of a German exchange student I met a number of years ago, and, for some reason, what little we are seen of Langley reminded me of ol' "Juli" (a cruel but hilarious-sounding nickname if ever there was one, IMO). So, there you go. "If no name exists for the character you're talking about, make one up." I haven't thought of one for the Frau-Doktor, tho, as you might have noticed. Anyone got a German WWII vessel to start us off?

Just me having a little fun. Remember, the greatest discoveries are made by not taking anything seriously!

There's nothing wrong with filliing in the unknown with what we're presented, with the most probable conclusions. Better then forgeting and moving own, to those who wamt to continue to enjoy the series, even after the end.

This actually sounds a lot like a paragraph waiting in my "working draft" that I'm saving for the first accusation of overanalysis. Good call, m'girl!

The Kyouko you describe just....seems more understandable(abiet seen less) then the (OC) manga, where she strangles young Asuka...

OC? In any case, in the anime, Kyoko symbolically strangles Asuka. And decapitates her, too. And hangs her. Sadamoto just, uh, gave us his own take... however much it falls apart due to his liberties in other areas. (Taking Papa Langley out of the picture? Oh, dear... There goes our S/A parallelism, Sadamoto-san! But who cares about Asuka, anyway? Rei is hotter in bandages!)

Time to get ready for the "Christmas Eve" (or "Yule Eve", as far as I'm concerned... trees and snow ain't got a THING to do with ol' JHM, but I digress -- a lot) gathering... Hope anybody else who is into such things has fun with whatever they're doing, too. Heck -- have fun even if you're not! We don't need institutionalized holidays to enjoy life! (But we DO need Naked Evas. Mochiron!)

Next time, I'll give you plenty of saabisu, saabi-SU! <3

____
EDIT: Oh duh me. @Steve-ojisan! Yeah, I did think "apotheosis" sounded a little... "off", but all I have on my HD for #22 is the LTP script and that particular point wasn't quite important enough for me to drag the DVDs out, heh. Good to know for the future, though!

Originally posted on: 25-Dec-2005, 08:07 GMT

[Magami No ER [ANF]]

OC-Outta Character
But I guess she wasn't quite so.
Edit: Awesome avatar. I was just gettong around to finishing mine. XD

Originally posted on: 25-Dec-2005, 08:26 GMT