Gender of Evangelions

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Postby OMF [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:22 pm

Reichu wrote:Still, I do not see the need to reduce the Eva to some sort of "thing", like an abstract concept, with your use of the language. The Evas are beings in their own right (only ones who require the soul of another to truly be alive), yet you -- not entirely unlike most of the characters in the show (as you mention) -- seem to (or at least feel the need to) regard them as little more than a metallic facade. If the necessity arises to make some sort of distinction, then it is simple enough. However, it's quite unnecessary IMO to consider the Evas mindless tools by default, considering we -- unlike the Evas' arrogant human masters -- know better, thanks to the revelations the series provides.


Though we as the audience know exactly what the Evas are, the majority of the characters in the show would think of them as "its" over much of the course of the show. So we can see that the concept of the "it" that is the form of the Eva is a real one, seperable from the concept of Yui or the soul inside. Calling this concept the "it" is a good way to briefly and adequetly acknowladge this difference.

Reichu wrote:I'm guessing you would, however, give both Batman and Bruce Wayne the privilege of being referred to as human beings.


Indeed. However let me stretch this argument and include Bruce Banner and The Hulk. Both linked as with Batman and Wayne, both are male. But what is their gender? Banner is exclusively a "he", and indeed, the Hulk is often referred to as a "he". However, it is often the case that a gender neutral pronoun is given to The Hulk. He becomes an "it", "What is it?" "It's a monster", "It's destroying everything".


The Bruce Banner/Hulk intimate dichotomy is really what I'm getting at here. We have a Yui/Unit-01 intimate dichotomy in Evangelion. A contrast between the serene mother and the raging beast, both of which are present in the same earthly form. We can distinguish between these two concepts in English by using different pronouns to describe them. Hence "she" is the Eva, but also she is in the "it" that is Eva also.

Originally posted on: 04-Jun-2005, 02:15 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:22 pm

We say things are "it's" sometimes because we don't want something so different(or unappealing) to be dignified with a gender, or sex, it seems.

Originally posted on: 04-Jun-2005, 02:18 GMT

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Postby OMF [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:22 pm

Magami No ER wrote:We say things are "it's" sometimes because we don't want something so different(or unappealing) to be dignified with a gender, or sex, it seems.


Does bestowing gender on something dignifiy it?
Does not having gender or sex somehow lessen something?

Originally posted on: 04-Jun-2005, 02:51 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:22 pm

If English had a standardized gender-neutral pronoun that didn't lump entities in with objects, I probably wouldn't be bitching so much. (And I might add, I find the usage of "they" are both third person plural and third person neutral singular to be a rather dissatisfying "solution". Let's let each pronoun retain its specialized duty, hmm?) Whether it is intended or not, "it" has the effect of reducing the subject to something not worthy of the recognition we give people. "He" and "she" are inherently a form of recognition. Those who call their dog "it" probably have wildly different attitudes regarding non-humans than those who call their dog "he" or "she" (depending on what is appropriate).

In any case, I still think the idea that Evas should be called "its" is silly. It goes against the general rule to call someone by vis gender whenever you have 'a pretty good idea' what it is [rather bizarre, since you seemed to concede to the Evas' femininity earlier] and assumes that your audience is incapable of discerning what aspect of the "dichotomy" you are referring to.

Oh yeah -- you'd never catch me calling the Hulk an "it", either. Image

Originally posted on: 04-Jun-2005, 03:14 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:22 pm

OMF wrote:Does bestowing gender on something dignifiy it?
Does not having gender or sex somehow lessen something?


I don't agree with that,m but that's how people usually speak. You see a cute little puppy dog, and say "good boy!^^". But then, you see the dog kill a bird and eat it, and say" That thing, it]s a monster! "It" seems to do that. It dehumanizes.

Originally posted on: 04-Jun-2005, 03:22 GMT

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Postby MagicianCamille [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:22 pm

I would never refer to an Evangelion as a "she". Image

Originally posted on: 04-Jun-2005, 03:45 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:22 pm

Reason? Image

Originally posted on: 04-Jun-2005, 03:48 GMT

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Postby MagicianCamille [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:22 pm

They're fugly.

Originally posted on: 04-Jun-2005, 03:50 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:22 pm

You don't call real-life fugly girls she? (plus, do you want Evas to be hawt(to mean, anyway) for some reason? They're made from a Human alien thing. Image)

Originally posted on: 04-Jun-2005, 03:51 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:22 pm

MagicianCamille wrote:They're fugly.



Oh yeah? Well, uh... your mom! Image

Originally posted on: 04-Jun-2005, 06:23 GMT

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Postby MagicianCamille [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:23 pm

Oh yeah? Well your mom got sexed up by your dad. Oh yeah I said it, what?

Originally posted on: 04-Jun-2005, 06:32 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:23 pm

"Oh yeah? Well at least MY mom's not on the cover of 'Crack \/\/h0r3 Magazine'!"

Okay, now this is just getting silly. Image

Originally posted on: 04-Jun-2005, 07:33 GMT

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Postby MagicianCamille [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:23 pm

Reichu wrote:"Oh yeah? Well at least MY mom's not on the cover of 'Crack \/\/h0r3 Magazine'!"



Hey, it made me more popular. Image

Okay, now this is just getting silly. Image



We passed silly 5 exits ago.

Originally posted on: 04-Jun-2005, 07:37 GMT

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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:23 pm

Reichu wrote:"Oh yeah? Well at least MY mom's not on the cover of 'Crack \/\/h0r3 Magazine'!"



"Screw you guys - I'm going home!"

Oh... wait... I am home.

Originally posted on: 04-Jun-2005, 07:37 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:23 pm

Okaeri nasai.

Originally posted on: 04-Jun-2005, 07:41 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:23 pm

Ah, the powers of chaos bring us all together. Image

Originally posted on: 04-Jun-2005, 15:10 GMT

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Postby Colossus [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:23 pm

Actually i would say that there is a gender of Evangelions.It depends on who is piloting the Eva.So it can be either male,or female.But not both at the same time.

However,in a.."Manga"..Asuka was piloting her Eva,and it was actually sexually assulted by the mass produced angels.

Looking at this closer,for the evas to even do that,the mass produced evas had to be male in gener.Or reacting to the pilot,Asuka,who was female.

Originally posted on: 05-Jun-2005, 00:53 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:23 pm

Um, Colossus, do you realize that the Evas are entities independent of their pilots? How on Earth does the pilot -- a non-intrinsic part of the Eva -- determine what the Eva is?

However,in a.."Manga"..Asuka was piloting her Eva,and it was actually sexually assulted by the mass produced angels.



Are we reading the same "manga"? Even if you're referring to the movie, you apparently watched the unpublished "Guro Edition".

Looking at this closer,for the evas to even do that,the mass produced evas had to be male in gener.Or reacting to the pilot,Asuka,who was female.



Or maybe they were just hungry and vindictive, and they could care less whether there was a little person inside the Eva or not.

Originally posted on: 05-Jun-2005, 01:02 GMT

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Postby thewayneiac [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:24 pm

Colossus wrote:However,in a.."Manga"..Asuka was piloting her Eva,and it was actually sexually assulted by the mass produced angels.



Reichu wrote:Are we reading the same "manga"? Even if you're referring to the movie, you apparently watched the unpublished "Guro Edition".



Is he maybe refering to some H-doujinshi that he read? Perhaps that would explain the quotation marks.

Originally posted on: 05-Jun-2005, 01:47 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:24 pm

Evas expressing sexuality? Do such doujinshi exist?!?

Originally posted on: 05-Jun-2005, 03:37 GMT


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