Adam's embryo, a few things concerning it...

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:47 pm

I was serious about doing a Kaworu doujinshii, and lately I have been steadliy working on it's art. (but I can't post pictures of it 'till this weekend. Image_ ) Anyway, I was thinking about Second Impact. If it's not said in any cannon NGE source of how Adam was reduced to embryo size, to limit the actual impact, then based on Seele or the Katsuragi team's technology, how do you think it was done? Where? It's hard to draw up an image of it in Anartica was melting and people were becoming souls. I need to picture this.I want to show the process in the most logical process possibly.(as much as it can be anyway) Kaworu was created on that day, quite quickly it seems, so I plan to show that as well. Any ideas are appreciated you wonderful bunch. Image

Originally posted on: 02-Feb-2005, 08:17 GMT

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Postby Jinpun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:47 pm



I have no idea how Adam went from this:
Image

To this:
Image

To this:
Image

Sorry I can't be much help...


Originally posted on: 02-Feb-2005, 08:37 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:47 pm

You have the order mixed up a little, that picture of her with the spear was the way she was found, it should be the first on top. Thanks anyway.^^ EDIT: (Remember if there is no actual information about the process, give me your own plausible idea.)

Originally posted on: 02-Feb-2005, 08:53 GMT

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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:47 pm

To the best of my knowledge, the picture of Adam with the shoulder pylons is the result of the Katsuragi expedition doing experiments on her. Since Ritsuko stated in #20 & #21 that those pylons are part of the system of bindings which allow Nerv to control an Evangelion, it would appear that the Katsuragi team were attempting to bind Adam so that she could be controlled.

I'm a bit hazy on the transition to Embryonic form myself, really, but I'd guess that when the Katsuragi team removed the LnY from Adam, her S² began to function, and that is why she looks all 'charged with energy' in the middle picture.

It is my understandind that this action caused the second impact, which took the form of an Anti-A.T. Field, tangifiying large chunks of the life on the planet, and somehow Adam was reduced to embryonic form in the aftermath of that. The details still elude me, however.

Originally posted on: 01-Feb-2005, 21:09 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:47 pm

Yes, I know the pylons and such are artifical, even on Adam. I wish I could show you the closeup of that famous OP Gaint of Light Adam I did, you see the genetic fusion, the cracking core, and her face with the black with red pupils(I believe she has them) and a look on her face that screams WTF! I'll post it as soon as I can, along with the other art. An understanding of Adam's "genetic fusion" bit will help too, guys.

Originally posted on: 01-Feb-2005, 21:14 GMT

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Postby Jinpun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:47 pm

Bah mixed up the URLs, fixed now Image.

Originally posted on: 01-Feb-2005, 21:15 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:47 pm

Thank you.

Originally posted on: 01-Feb-2005, 21:16 GMT

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Postby Treize X [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:47 pm

Hmm...tough question you've asked. Well, if they were skilled enough in genetics to be cloning Eva parts (see the ep with Iruel, forgot teh number, Ritsuko also mentions regeneration several times), then I would presume they might have the skill to do something similar to compression.

They could simply splice the original material (in this case, Adam's body) and take the soul itself and transfer it using the LnY to the embryo, made from the spliced material. Following that, the extra material could be used to make Kaworu, as well, and they might be able to transfer the soul partially to him, as well.

What did they do with the excess material? Well, that would turn to nothing more than LCL in Second Impact due to the Anti-ATF. Voila. My explanation. Image


Originally posted on: 01-Feb-2005, 21:36 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:48 pm

Thanks Treize, I'll consider that, but I need others' opinions as well first.

Originally posted on: 01-Feb-2005, 22:14 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:48 pm

Some weird stuff I translated a while back from "Eva tomo no kai" suggested that 2I was caused as a result of a contact experiment between Adam and a human subject. (See the thread for more details...) It is also worth noting that, in addition to the pylons, Adam appears to have an entry plug system "installed"*, so perhaps this contact was being made the same way as the EVA-01 and EVA-02 Contact Experiments that would follow... The unfathomable part is, of course, that those two had the result of displacing the human subject's soul INTO the Eva, whereas, in Adam's case... well, who the funocks knows! The more one thinks about it, the less sense it all makes, really.

My personal pet theory is that Professor Katsuragi is the one who went into Adam (ohhhhh baby...). Shin-seiki even suggested at EvaMonkey's forum that the REAL reason Misato was there at Antarctica is for a reason paralleling Shinji's presence at Yui's Contact Experiment: "I want to show my child the bright future." But considering Katsuragi had time to escape with Misato (and he doesn't seem to be wearing a wetsuit, either Image ) once things went haywire, this theory only really works if there was some kind of delay between the initial "Contact" and the "physical fusing" that made Adam go apeshit.

Whatever did happen, it somehow had the result of producing Kaworu (presumably in embryonic form) -- who, if the above theory works, would be a clone of Katsuragi -- and reducing Adam herself to an embryo. The soul transfer may or may not have occurred at that time; Seele could have done it after recovery. To make matters more complicated, the White Moon's Gauf Room opened up shortly before Adam went ka-boom; some possibilities for what that might have meant are discussed here.

The glowing is reminiscent of what happens later to EVA-00 (who becomes a bioluminiscent, naked Rei before blowing Tokyo-3 sky-high), and is probably symptomatic of the fact that Adam creates a big-arse explosion that vaporizes the White Moon and melts Antarctica. An AATF was formed beforehand, and we can see its effects (in DEATH only) when Adam spreads her wings -- souls are scattered everywhere.

However, an AATF was generated by the Katsuragi Team, as well, "to minimize the damage". Does this mean that if they had not done that, Adam's AATF would have spread across the planet? Or is their AATF what retrograded Adam into an embryo?

The circumstances behind 2I, I think, are doubtless the most baffling thing in this entire goddam show. :gives Anno the finger:

On an aside, when I draw Adam, I make her almost identical physically to Shogouki, except with pale whiteish skin and eyes that have a black schlera and red iris. When Adam goes nutzoid, though, the eyes become completely black (inverse of the Evas), like we see in #12. Here's a sketch I did, in case it gives you any ideas. Image

* Though whether or not any additional crap was put onto her, I have no idea. Is Adam "armored up", or is she just walking around with the pylons, entry plug, and her birthday suit?

Originally posted on: 01-Feb-2005, 23:18 GMT

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Postby thewayneiac [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:48 pm

Soluzar wrote:I'm a bit hazy on the transition to Embryonic form myself, really, but I'd guess that when the Katsuragi team removed the LnY from Adam, her S² began to function, and that is why she looks all 'charged with energy' in the middle picture



Actually, nothing happened when they pulled the Lance out. Then they shipped it off to the Dead Sea, where they did something or other to it and shipped it back. All Hell broke loose when they stuck it back in. The workings of the Lance are rather unfathomable. With Adam, nothing happens when they pull it out, but she revives when they put it back; With Lilith nothing happens when they stick it in, but she regenerates when they pull it back out. Not to mention the fact that the Lance was apparently left just lying around in Antarctica for fifteen years until Gendo and Fuyutsuki retrieve it. I suppose it would have been rather difficult for just anyone to steal it, but wouldn't you think that Seele would have secured it long before?

Reichu wrote:Shin-seiki even suggested at EvaMonkey's forum that the REAL reason Misato was there at Antarctica is for a reason paralleling Shinji's presence at Yui's Contact Experiment: "I want to show my child the bright future."



I still think that you don't just bring your daughter along to the South Pole when you're conducting a dangerous and top-secret experiment. She was there for some fiendish reason, like a contact experiment between her and Adam.

Originally posted on: 01-Feb-2005, 23:45 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:48 pm

thewayneiac wrote:Not to mention the fact that the Lance was apparently left just lying around in Antarctica for fifteen years until Gendo and Fuyutsuki retrieve it. I suppose it would have been rather difficult for just anyone to steal it, but wouldn't you think that Seele would have secured it long before?



Yeah, honestly, how could they have gone down there and found two embryonic objects, but completely glossed over the enormous red pitchfork??

I still think that you don't just bring your daughter along to the South Pole when you're conducting a dangerous and top-secret experiment. She was there for some fiendish reason, like a contact experiment between her and Adam.



A contact experiment DID happen; aside from the fact that Misato was THERE, what logical reason do we have for suspecting she was used? (And not the "14 years old" bit, please...) Assuming Kaworu was produced as a result of the fusion, it obviously COULD NOT have been her. Her father seems the considerably more likely option; if the subject was anyone we "know", it was him.

I think Shin-seiki's suggestion has a kind of twisted elegance to it. Image

Originally posted on: 01-Feb-2005, 23:54 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:48 pm

Reichu wrote:Some weird stuff I translated a while back from "Eva tomo no kai" suggested that 2I was caused as a result of a contact experiment between Adam and a human subject. (See the thread for more details...) It is also worth noting that, in addition to the pylons, Adam appears to have an entry plug system "installed"*, so perhaps this contact was being made the same way as the EVA-01 and EVA-02 Contact Experiments that would follow... The unfathomable part is, of course, that those two had the result of displacing the human subject's soul INTO the Eva, whereas, in Adam's case... well, who the funocks knows! The more one thinks about it, the less sense it all makes, really.

My personal pet theory is that Professor Katsuragi is the one who went into Adam (ohhhhh baby...). Shin-seiki even suggested at EvaMonkey's forum that the REAL reason Misato was there at Antarctica is for a reason paralleling Shinji's presence at Yui's Contact Experiment: "I want to show my child the bright future." But considering Katsuragi had time to escape with Misato (and he doesn't seem to be wearing a wetsuit, either Image ) once things went haywire, this theory only really works if there was some kind of delay between the initial "Contact" and the "physical fusing" that made Adam go apeshit.

Whatever did happen, it somehow had the result of producing Kaworu (presumably in embryonic form) -- who, if the above theory works, would be a clone of Katsuragi -- and reducing Adam herself to an embryo. The soul transfer may or may not have occurred at that time; Seele could have done it after recovery. To make matters more complicated, the White Moon's Gauf Room opened up shortly before Adam went ka-boom; some possibilities for what that might have meant are discussed here.

Ok, so Keel has to have met Katsuragi-san somehow in the past, fallen secrectly in love, and....nevermind for now. Image A parallel to the Gendo/ Yui dynamic, ecept Keel is a cyriptic ol' religous Zelot, so everyone's going down with him, in the name of love and freedom from pain...and becoming 'one" with everything! Image With regards to the White Moon's Guaf, it could be the destruction of the white moon, and the release of destrado, vaporizing everyone and letting their souls fly free, until the Katsuragi AT field(generated by what?) reduced Adam to embronic state, and later it was retrieved by Keel and the Geheirn team via their surprisingly resistent helicoptor. Image Once they got back to German Hidaway Throne of Doom, the soul was somhow extracted of the embryo (in which I'll make up a process)and Nagisa Kaworu (or Katsuragi Tabris, to be proper^^)and 13 copies of him were than created from the Katsuragi genetic material, and Adam's soul. Basicly, just a container for Adam's soul...who happanes to be hot. Of course, Ka-chan would be a smartass who reads people like a book, like Rei 1. He'll also obviously have a taste for music, and be more well-informed about "lilum", and other such things. And other ideas will keep my story going all through Kaworu's life,(including...what else, but angst!...and of course a homage kitten. :snickers: ), until his role in the series and movie apears anyway. I'll also go into his discovery of the clones, and TEH HARPIES! This will be quite interesting. Image Anyway, I hate to say it, but the reason I believe the Second Impact is so damn confusing with regards to Kaworu is that Anno at first was going to make him as a young boy with a cat, who was the true angel.(Sadamoto's reason for the "homage", bastard manga Kaworu killing the kitten) I don't know when he decided to make him into a boy born on Second Impact, it could've been well after he was into the series for all we know.
The glowing is reminiscent of what happens later to EVA-00 (who becomes a bioluminiscent, naked Rei before blowing Tokyo-3 sky-high), and is probably symptomatic of the fact that Adam creates a big-arse explosion that vaporizes the White Moon and melts Antarctica. An AATF was formed beforehand, and we can see its effects (in DEATH only) when Adam spreads her wings -- souls are scattered everywhere.

However, an AATF was generated by the Katsuragi Team, as well, "to minimize the damage". Does this mean that if they had not done that, Adam's AATF would have spread across the planet? Or is their AATF what retrograded Adam into an embryo?


I think it was both, and that is exactly what I needed help remembering for this, thanks..^^
The circumstances behind 2I, I think, are doubtless the most baffling thing in this entire goddam show. :gives Anno the finger:

I usually like to think of it as a "I really could care less" situiation, but it I really needed to show SI and Kaworu's creation for the being. BTW, if you look at Mistato's father's hand, you see a little bit of it melting(I've checked many times, it's his skin, not jacket), as well as a big bleeding slice on is plam. Does that have anything to do with the "gentic fusion", ya think?
[quote]On an aside, when I draw Adam, I make her almost identical physically to Shogouki, except with pale whiteish skin and eyes that have a black schlera and red iris. When Adam goes nutzoid, though, the eyes become completely black (inverse of the Evas), like we see in #12. Here's a sketch I did, in case it gives you any ideas. Image
Looking at Eva's head, I have come to realize those things that look like Sachiel's head, on their own head, is not a natural part of Adam's/Eva's body.
I came to this conclusion looking at them in the manga, they apper bolted on, the 'eyes' look artifical. Therefore, I don't draw them on Adam nor Lilith.
My Adam does the same think with the eyes, though I've only draw her once, and she was "nutzoid"
* Though whether or not any additional crap was put onto her, I have no idea. Is Adam "armored up", or is she just walking around with the pylons, entry plug, and her birthday suit?

I think it might have been the latter, the team really wasn't interested in hiding the fact that Adam was living, not a armored robot mecha. While that doesn't really explain the pylons, I think they were there to give a EVA-Adam reference for veiwers. Plus, you can see the core, which I think Lilith doesn't have because it was taken off to exract Lilith's soul for Rei. Theories are fun. This is why I love Kaworu so much, besides the conforting personality, the bishie hotness, and his ambiguoity; never has a bish made me think so hard, yet still be important for understanding the series!^^

Originally posted on: 02-Feb-2005, 01:03 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:48 pm

Magami No ER wrote:Ok, so Keel has to have met Katsuragi-san somehow in the past, fallen secrectly in love, and....nevermind for now. -_-;



Maybe now we know the REAL reason behind the Katsuragi's divorce. Image Katsuragi, attempting (without complete success) to balance family life, teaching at a college, and his current research, is approached by a certain Herr Lorenz. Keel is recruiting talent and needs someone daring enough to head a research expedition he is planning (for several years down the road), and, with his cunning intellect and audacious theorism, Professor Katsuragi is just the man. In the process of making overtures to Katsuragi, the unexpected happens -- they fall madly in love. Now that Katsuragi has come out of the closet, he can't go back, nor can he deny the tremendous research opportunities Seele would provide. He breaks the news to his darling wife -- who no longer arouses him -- and she remorsefully files for divorce.

The homosexual part is, of course, kept secret from Misato. At that age, does a child need to know that her father has become the lover of an older German man in charge of the organization that secretly runs the world?

Okay, so that story might need a little work, but perhaps it will provide some deranged inspiration. ;)

Once they got back to German Hidaway Throne of Doom, the soul was somhow extracted of the embryo (in which I'll make up a process)and Nagisa Kaworu (or Katsuragi Tabris, to be proper^^)and 13 copies of him were than created from the Katsuragi genetic material, and Adam's soul.



Problem is, as you noted elsewhere, Kaworu's creation was supposed to have been on the date of Second Impact... An embryo was created, and later collected by Seele, along with Adam.

and of course a homage kitten. :snickers: ), until his role in the series and movie apears anyway.



Well, why not give him a pet cat at his German abode, whom he leaves behind when he shipped to Japan?

I'll also go into his discovery of the clones, and TEH HARPIES! This will be quite interesting. Image



It's also apparent that Kaworu became aware of his angelic abilities early on... Levitating, generating the ATF, etc.

BTW, if you look at Mistato's father's hand, you see a little bit of it melting(I've checked many times, it's his skin, not jacket), as well as a big bleeding slice on is plam. Does that have anything to do with the "gentic fusion", ya think?



Hard to say... If he was inside an entry plug for Contact, one has to wonder how this genetic fusion occurred. Or perhaps I am just going nowhere with the entry plug stuff, and "Eva tomo no kai" is just being confusing by drawing a parallel between Adam's contact experiment and the later ones... The hand business is interesting, as, in #21', there is a lingering shot of a glove that looks like it could be his. If so, perhaps he intentionally sliced his hand open, and Adam was subsequently exposed to it. (Maybe he touched her in an inappropriate way, and that's why she got so upset. :P ) Of course, it could just have been an injury he acquired in the process of getting the hell out of there, not unlike Misato's wound.

Still, since Gendo is connected to Adam by a hand, it is tempting to think that Katsuragi might be, as well.

Looking at Eva's head, I have come to realize those things that look like Sachiel's head, on their own head, is not a natural part of Adam's/Eva's body.
I came to this conclusion looking at them in the manga, they apper bolted on, the 'eyes' look artifical. Therefore, I don't draw them on Adam nor Lilith.



Depends on where you look... In episode #02, they are merely dots, not the implanted electrodes you see elsewhere. At any rate, I think making the dots (freckles, in a way Image ) a natural part of the Evangelion face is an appropriate liberty to take. Sachiel's face is essentially the symbol of the Angels, and that a facsimile of it would be centered on an Eva's brow is rather fitting. I draw Adam with it because, well, she's the mommy of the Angels; but Lilith doesn't get it.

Plus, you can see the core, which I think Lilith doesn't have because it was taken off to exract Lilith's soul for Rei.



Look at the image of Lilith and Sho attached; the only one with a core is Sho. I think Lilith simply does not have the feature because she is a different type of lifeform than the Adam lineage.

Originally posted on: 02-Feb-2005, 02:51 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:48 pm

Reichu wrote:Maybe now we know the REAL reason behind the Katsuragi's divorce. Image Katsuragi, attempting (without complete success) to balance family life, teaching at a college, and his current research, is approached by a certain Herr Lorenz. Keel is recruiting talent and needs someone daring enough to head a research expedition he is planning (for several years down the road), and, with his cunning intellect and audacious theorism, Professor Katsuragi is just the man. In the process of making overtures to Katsuragi, the unexpected happens -- they fall madly in love. Now that Katsuragi has come out of the closet, he can't go back, nor can he deny the tremendous research opportunities Seele would provide. He breaks the news to his darling wife -- who no longer arouses him -- and she remorsefully files for divorce.


The homosexual part is, of course, kept secret from Misato. At that age, does a child need to know that her father has become the lover of an older German man in charge of the organization that secretly runs the world?

Okay, so that story might need a little work, but perhaps it will provide some deranged inspiration. Image



Problem is, as you noted elsewhere, Kaworu's creation was supposed to have been on the date of Second Impact... An embryo was created, and later collected by Seele, along with Adam.

True,I was implying rather vaugly in my post that this was on the same day, which may be the only thing that seems plausible.


Well, why not give him a pet cat at his German abode, whom he leaves behind when he shipped to Japan?


Yes, I was planning to do that, I really have to get thses pictures scanned, 3 months without a scanner is really taking a toll on me. Image_

Originally posted on: 02-Feb-2005, 03:24 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:49 pm

Geh? You put two of the things I wrote outside of the "quote" part, and you didn't even respond to it! Image

Originally posted on: 02-Feb-2005, 04:05 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:49 pm

I'm tired, sorry. Image_

Originally posted on: 02-Feb-2005, 04:28 GMT

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Postby AchtungAffen [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:49 pm

If that's the story, then I bet Katsuragi had a lot of stamina, as Keel ended up using the mechanical vertebrae. I bet that Kaji enjoyed having tasted Katsuragi familiy's stamina. You know... genes and stuff.

Originally posted on: 02-Feb-2005, 18:05 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:49 pm

Keel apparently became a cyborg sometime AFTER 2I... Perhaps he attempted suicide in a really bad way when he learned that his lover had not escaped Antarctica with Gendo, but was convinced at the last possible moment that he still had something to live for, leading to him becoming the test subject for radical cyborgization procedures.

Naww, that doesn't work. Just ignore me. Image

Originally posted on: 02-Feb-2005, 19:48 GMT

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Postby AchtungAffen [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:49 pm

I tell you: Keel's advanced arthritis and Katsuragi's stamina are an explosive combo.

Originally posted on: 02-Feb-2005, 19:51 GMT


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