What Gendou said to Ritsuko: Solved? (seriously)

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Postby Gandalf452 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:36 pm

I havent read through this whole thread yet, but let me just jump in here with my theory. Sorry Shin-Seiki but I dont agree with you.

Ive always believed that Gendo's absent line had to do with the incident that just happened. I think Gendo somehow found out about Ritsuko's little plot to blow up the facility and told her so. Possible lines might be;

"I found out about your little plan."
"I can still control your mother." I like this one personally.
"The Magi have been repaired."
"The Magi are still under my control."

Ritsuko, seeing her hopes for both revenge and for stopping Gendo's plan, as well as facing the knowledge that she's about to die, can only reply with "Liar."

Originally posted on: 18-Jun-2005, 23:35 GMT

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Postby Colossus [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:37 pm

I have heard rumors that Gendou really did say something to Ritsuko.But it was somehow edited out of the EoE.I have the dubbed english version,so when i first saw it.When Gendou was silent,i knew he had to have said something.But what?I have heard a lot of different theories...

Originally posted on: 18-Jun-2005, 23:39 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:37 pm

Gandalf452 wrote:I havent read through this whole thread yet, but let me just jump in here with my theory. Sorry Shin-Seiki but I dont agree with you.



"I haven't read the entirety of your argument or seen the evidence presented. But I still know that, whatever you say, it's wrong."

Originally posted on: 19-Jun-2005, 01:04 GMT

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Postby OMF [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:37 pm

You know, the one thing that still bothers me is Gendou's motivation for saying anything at all. He's taken a moment to mouth something rather than simply blow her head clean off. It's not a stretch to say that whatever he said, it was important enough for Gendou to drop his stony facade, even if only for a moment, and say something.
What's motivating him to say anything here?

There's only one other times Gendou ever drops his facade to any great extent are when Rei seems in mortal peril in episodes #05 and #19, and in episode #24 when we are shown a brief glimpse of Gendou being shall we say, "not quite himself".
Image
How would you say he looks here? Confused? Distressed? Remourseful? He's definitely perturbed for whatever reason. I think that Gendou probably did empathise with Ritsko on some level. She was his long term lover after all. If he did, then his hidden words to her were more likely to be sympathetic or contrite, rather than contemptuous or vitriolic.

If his words were a little softer, you could compare the scene to the one in #25' were the JSSDF soldier drops his cold professionalism for just a moment, and expresses the regret he's feeling for having to be Shinji's (would be) executioner. Nothing personal, kid.

Along the line of a more remourseful Gendou, you could postulate his words as:

"I truely am sorry. It's nothing personal."

Which might fit Gendou's motives, but could have trouble with Ritsuko's later "Liar".


That said I'm suddenly reminded of Michael Corleone's words to Tom Hagen
The Godfather wrote:Tom, don't let anyone kid you. It's all personal, every bit of business. Every piece of **** every man has to eat every day of his life is personal. They call it business. OK. But it's personal as hell.



Originally posted on: 19-Jun-2005, 02:42 GMT

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Postby ShyanHaiJin [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:37 pm

I'm pretty convinced that it's something about her mom. I thought he said something like "really, your mom's a better woman." (Casper, modelled after her mom as a woman, rejected Ritsuko in favour of Gendo) Then she would say "usotsuki!" (either as rejection [maybe she thought she did better than her mom], or she thought Gendo was lying when he says something positive about her mom) But I guess "you're just like your mom" works well.

Why don't we see what the Japanese fans think
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&a...nG=Search&meta=

Originally posted on: 19-Jun-2005, 07:18 GMT

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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:37 pm

There's a follow-up to this thread. A whole other thread where Shin-Seiki continued his analysis a long time afterwards, once he'd had chance to really think about it, and that might be relevant to you three who just posted.

Originally posted on: 19-Jun-2005, 10:30 GMT

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Postby ShyanHaiJin [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:37 pm

Lol, even on this Japanese site they think Gendou said "I love you"
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...%81%8D%22&hl=en
It's way down on line 445
「赤木リツコ君、本当に愛していたよ」
「嘘つき・・・」



Originally posted on: 19-Jun-2005, 10:57 GMT

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Postby ShyanHaiJin [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:37 pm

OR... since he said Ritsuko KUN... maybe he said

"really... you're actually a boy"
"... liar..."

Originally posted on: 19-Jun-2005, 11:14 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:37 pm

I don't know if this would make any difference, but the way "Usotsuki" is written in the script itself is: 「ウソつき」.

Originally posted on: 19-Jun-2005, 12:45 GMT

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Postby Gandalf452 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:37 pm

Reichu wrote:"I haven't read the entirety of your argument or seen the evidence presented. But I still know that, whatever you say, it's wrong."



Jeez, talk about jumping all over the new guy! Im just saying I disagree with his initial posts is all. You know, the original topic of the thread and all.

Soluzar can you point us in the direction of this other thread?

Originally posted on: 19-Jun-2005, 16:13 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:38 pm

Gandalf452 wrote:Jeez, talk about jumping all over the new guy! Im just saying I disagree with his initial posts is all. You know, the original topic of the thread and all.

New guy?! You were here when I first arrived more than three years ago!
Soluzar can you point us in the direction of this other thread?

http://www.animenation.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=170703

Originally posted on: 19-Jun-2005, 16:21 GMT

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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:38 pm

Gandalf452 wrote:Jeez, talk about jumping all over the new guy! Im just saying I disagree with his initial posts is all. You know, the original topic of the thread and all.



Well, while I can understand that, if you do find time to read everything that Shin-Seiki has written on this topic, you might find that you come to agree with him more. His views on this matter appear to have been refined over time, and his new thread has an enormous amount more to say on the topic.

Soluzar can you point us in the direction of this other thread?



Gomen. The author himself beat me to it.

Perhaps you could answer one thing for me yourself, Shin-Seiki. I lost track of that thread somewhat, towards the very end of its active life, and I never was entirely clear if you managed to finish what you set out to do? I think when I have a few hours free, I need to read through your work on this topic again.

Originally posted on: 19-Jun-2005, 16:26 GMT

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Postby Gandalf452 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:38 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:New guy?! You were here when I first arrived more than three years ago!http://www.animenation.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=170703



I meant new to this thread, but thanks for rememberin me. Image

I think im gonna stay out of both these threads till im done reading them. Ive spoke my peace.

Originally posted on: 19-Jun-2005, 16:26 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:38 pm

Soluzar wrote:Perhaps you could answer one thing for me yourself, Shin-Seiki. I lost track of that thread somewhat, towards the very end of its active life, and I never was entirely clear if you managed to finish what you set out to do? I think when I have a few hours free, I need to read through your work on this topic again.

No, I just intended to take a short break to catch my breath and collect my thoughts. But, me being me, laziness and procrastination have made that short break drag out for months now. However, I certainly have plenty left to say about the Requarium scene, and Gendo's confrontation with Ritsuko in #24, etc...

Originally posted on: 19-Jun-2005, 16:34 GMT

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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:38 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:No, I just intended to take a short break to catch my breath and collect my thoughts. But, me being me, laziness and procrastination have made that short break drag out for months now. However, I certainly have plenty left to say about the Requarium scene, and Gendo's confrontation with Ritsuko in #24, etc...



Such was my suspicion. It is good to know that you intend to continue, and heaven knows you got enough done back then that you should feel quite entitled to a break, however long it is. Image

I for one will be awaiting your further findings with interest.

Originally posted on: 19-Jun-2005, 16:44 GMT

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Postby OMF [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:38 pm

Reichu wrote:I don't know if this would make any difference, but the way "Usotsuki" is written in the script itself is: 「ウソつき」.



I am highly nonplussed. Is there implied meaning in the way the word is written?

Originally posted on: 19-Jun-2005, 17:38 GMT

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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:38 pm

OMF wrote:I am highly nonplussed. Is there implied meaning in the way the word is written?



katakana U SO, hiragana tsu ki - it's a mix of the two syllabic scripts. Hence Reichu's musings.

To the extent that katakana function like block capitals, perhaps it might indicate some emphasis on the first part; or perhaps some other fracture in the parsing of the word.

Originally posted on: 19-Jun-2005, 17:53 GMT

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Postby ShyanHaiJin [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:38 pm

ウソ = 嘘 = lie
Add つき and it becomes 嘘つき = liar
But why use Katakana for uso...
Also, just discovered 君 = -kun can be used for girls too. The person addressing the girl-kun must have higher social status. Sometimes teachers can address both boys and girls as -kun

Originally posted on: 20-Jun-2005, 08:44 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:38 pm

Well, certainly, the way the line is written would influence the sorts of results you get in Google.

Strangely, I don't think I've ever needed to deal with the kanji form of 'uso' before. Some kanji have gone out of favor over the years (I don't know if 'uso' is one of them, tho) and you'll commonly see the word rendered in katakana instead. (That's one of the uses for katakana 'they' don't tell you about. Image )

Originally posted on: 20-Jun-2005, 08:59 GMT

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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:39 pm

ShyanHaiJin wrote:ウソ = 嘘 = lie
Add つき and it becomes 嘘つき = liar
But why use Katakana for uso...
Also, just discovered 君 = -kun can be used for girls too. The person addressing the girl-kun must have higher social status. Sometimes teachers can address both boys and girls as -kun



Or upperclasswomen. Which doesn't sound right. What I mean to say is that just as an older boy in school might expect to be called -sempai, (like my charming avatar) he might call the younger boy -kun. The same seems to apply to girls.

Originally posted on: 20-Jun-2005, 08:59 GMT


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