The NGE Fan-Geeks Commentary Project

Over time, notable threads from ANF will be preserved here for the Benefit of All.

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Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:56 pm

EDIT: Here are the links to other commentary-related things, all in one convenient place!

- The NGE Fan-Geeks Commentary Page
Threads
- Commentary: OP
- Commentary: ED (Fly Me To The Moon)
- Commentary: Next Episode Previews
- Commentary: Episode #01
- Commentary: Episode #02
- Commentary: Episode #03
- Commentary: Episode #04
-
Commentary: References (Names)

- Commentary: Research

And now, your previously scheduled "first post":

_________________________________

This might just be a bout of temporary insanity... Certainly wouldn't be the first time for me. Image

Sharp-kun wrote:We could contact ADV and offer to do a commentary track for them if they pay for us to go to the US Image

I dunno... I think I might be afraid to work with ADV even if I had the opportunity.

But here's some ideas I got about doing a collaborate NGE-Geek commentary... Granted, the whole idea is pretty out-there, but I'm crazy enough that I would do it -- provided a few other people were crazy enough to do it too.

I agree with MDWigs about some sort of online conference being the best way to go about doing this. (Unfortunately, I have no idea how those work, but I'm never beyond looking into new stuff if I'm interested enough.) However, I think doing a commentary off the tops of our heads is out. Some interesting things happen when you go by spontaneity alone, but a commentary to something as complicated as NGE would need to be *completely* (at least, almost completely; a *little* spontaneity might be good) planned in advance. Scripted, if you will.

If there's anything I hate about multi-person commentaries, it's that people are always talking over one another -- interrupting and cutting each other off. (And oftentimes the less assertive speakers are the ones who have more interesting stuff to say. Image ) On the ANF NGE-Geek Commentary, that would be out. We would all know what we were going to say beforehand and when we were going to say it. (Even so, some audio editing would probably be a must to get things to flow right. I fool around with audio a bit, so I'd be up to the task of putting together the final cut of a particular commentary, after I get some better utilities anyway.)

And we would find a way to say everything that needs to be said, utilizing every possible second of time if necessary. When things in the series are especially hectic, further discussion on a particular subject might need to be relegated to a later time when there is less going on. (So what the heck would we do when EoE ends and we still need to throw a handful of ideas at the listener? I guess play the strings "Jesus bleibet meine Freude" in the background of the commentary, followed by "Everything you've ever dreamed", and hope the listener sticks around even though there's no more video to watch.) That means talking during every OP, every ED, every budget scene, EVERYthing.

It would be cool if as many forum folks (preferably the regulars, to keep things intimate Image ) participated as possible. Well, anyone who's not predisposed to troll-like behavior and has demonstrated that they have valid things to say. Granted, I think some of us probably have more to say than others (and there are probably those of you who'd PREFER not saying anything), but I think a lot of us should make at least SOME sort of appearance.

Not to demonstrate any kind of bias, but here are some of the people I'd want to participate (my brain will be stupid and inevitably forget some names; apologies in advance), in no particular order:

Myself (heh), MDWigs, Shin-seiki, Sharp-kun, Incisivis, tv33, Dr. Nick, Achtung_Affen, wayneiac, and, heck, I'd even want to hear some words from NakedEye, GandalfsWhisper, HWPS, and felineki. Eva Otaku would certainly be a nice addition (although he hasn't hung around here much during my stay at the forum), as well. (Granted, I don't know how good Dr. Nick and AA are at spoken English... Things wouldn't feel right without you guys, though! Image )

Granted, this kind of project would require a helluva lotta cooperative work between anyone crazy enough to become involved. But, hey, I'm all for it! Wayneiac seems to have already volunteered his soul... If there are others, I guess we might as well start brainstorming.

Originally posted on: 23-Apr-2004, 14:03 GMT

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Postby Dr. Nick [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:56 pm

I love the idea, but my spoken English is simply not good enough for this kind of project. And I believe we all have so much other things to do, that creating a full audio commentary would be nearly impossible (not to mention the time-zone problems...).

So, my suggestion is, if we're going to do some kind of commentary, it should be something text-based, maybe even in a website form. Maybe a sort of visual rundown of the series using screencaptures or something. It wouldn't be as flashy, but it is something we might be actually able to pull off.

(And Reichu, those smileys of yours need a bit of tweaking.)

Originally posted on: 23-Apr-2004, 14:50 GMT

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Postby Incisivis [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:56 pm

Reichu wrote:Not to demonstrate any kind of bias, but here are some of the people I'd want to participate (my brain will be stupid and inevitably forget some names; apologies in advance), in no particular order:

Myself (heh), MDWigs, Shin-seiki, Sharp-kun, Incisivis, tv33, Dr. Nick, Achtung_Affen, wayneiac, and, heck, I'd even want to hear some words from NakedEye, GandalfsWhisper, HWPS, and felineki. Eva Otaku would certainly be a nice addition (although he hasn't hung around here much during my stay at the forum), as well.

Well, I'd be up for it, though frankly I don't know what I'd offer. If the commentary is supposed to be about setting the record straight regarding the "technical" details of Evangelion, then I'm really not your person. But, yeah, anything I can do.

Originally posted on: 23-Apr-2004, 15:08 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:56 pm

Dr. Nick wrote:I love the idea, but my spoken English is simply not good enough for this kind of project. And I believe we all have so much other things to do, that creating a full audio commentary would be nearly impossible (not to mention the time-zone problems...).

So, my suggestion is, if we're going to do some kind of commentary, it should be something text-based, maybe even in a website form. Maybe a sort of visual rundown of the series using screencaptures or something. It wouldn't be as flashy, but it is something we might be actually able to pull off.

(And Reichu, those smileys of yours need a bit of tweaking.)

I agree with Dr. Nick, a website would be the way to go. Reichu, didn't you already suggest that idea, i.e. a site to compile all our fan-geek analyses of the show? I think that a lot of what has already been posted in this forum could serve as a seed for such a project...

ps the official Japanese script (from killingmantras site) that you have translated for the Rei-ep25 thread (and other scenes Image ), could form the backbone for the project.

Originally posted on: 23-Apr-2004, 15:10 GMT

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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:56 pm

I agree the technical problems involved in an audio commentary would be too great; however a web site is a good idea. A still picture commentary would be great, as well as essays and conversation that have taken place in the more complex threads. Then every time someone posts a thread like 20;Questions about Eva21; we could ***** out the site. Image

Originally posted on: 23-Apr-2004, 18:47 GMT

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Postby NakedEYE666 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:56 pm

I'd definetly do it. Mostly I'd be like "uuhh" and "yeah, what he said" but if you need someone like that I'd be pleased. It'd be a heck of a lot better than most commentaries and interveiws with people unaffiliated with the series.

Originally posted on: 23-Apr-2004, 23:36 GMT

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Postby MDWigs [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:56 pm

Website idea aside, we could make at start at scripting of sorts, by creating a thread for episode 01, discussing everything we deem important from that episode, and when that's fully run it's course, move onto episode 02, etc...

That way we at least have a groundwork for everything important that happens in a series and can at least make sure we dont miss anything out. From there we can get to the stage of delegating who says/explains what, but first things first I think.

Originally posted on: 24-Apr-2004, 01:07 GMT

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Postby NakedEYE666 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:56 pm

MDWigs wrote:Website idea aside, we could make at start at scripting of sorts, by creating a thread for episode 01, discussing everything we deem important from that episode, and when that's fully run it's course, move onto episode 02, etc...

That way we at least have a groundwork for everything important that happens in a series and can at least make sure we dont miss anything out. From there we can get to the stage of delegating who says/explains what, but first things first I think.

I think that's a great idea! Image

Originally posted on: 24-Apr-2004, 02:20 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:57 pm

Well, okay, I'll admit that the AUDIO commentary idea was a bit insane... Why didn't I think of the web page idea in the first place? Image

Incisivis wrote:Well, I'd be up for it, though frankly I don't know what I'd offer. If the commentary is supposed to be about setting the record straight regarding the "technical" details of Evangelion, then I'm really not your person. But, yeah, anything I can do.

To speak purely for myself, but I've found Amanda's essays and various posts to be extremely insightful into certain characterization issues. Ya'll have probably heard me plugging them at some point or another.

Setting the record straight would be only ONE facet of a commentary, I think. Personally, I would like it to be a compilation of many different things:

- Pure factual information. Various trivia, behind-the-scenes information, staff-related tidbits, some insight into NGE's diverse sources of inspiration, etc. (That would mean doing some research into the weird religious aspects, as well, just to make sure we get them right instead of repeating hearsay without references. )

- Observations, theories, debates, and debunks. This would probably be the biggest part of the commentary, considering how much of NGE isn't spelled out for the viewer. Common misconceptions and n00bisms are promptly dealt with. Important details are noted and possible explanations offered up. When multiple viewpoints are valid in their own right, they will be rightfully represented by their respective parties. No petty arguing -- everything will be done as elegantly and sportsmanlike as possible.

- Humor. After all, we shouldn't be taking EVERYTHING seriously; a little levity here and there would probably be appropriate. The forum certainly isn't a stranger to bouts of silliness. (Granted, a lot of those can be attributed to a single person... Image)

But, anyways, I'd like to see a good hodgepodge of stuff in the commentary. If it was all technical details, it would be awfully boring.

Shin-seiki wrote:I agree with Dr. Nick, a website would be the way to go. Reichu, didn't you already suggest that idea, i.e. a site to compile all our fan-geek analyses of the show? I think that a lot of what has already been posted in this forum could serve as a seed for such a project...

That would require the godawful task of weeding through the last year of threads and hand-picking the good stuff (of which there is QUITE a bit). I'd be crazy enough to do such a thing, but preferably we'd have at least a few people partaking in the procedure. That way, not just one person's idea of what is "valid" or "funny" (or whatever) will be represented, and the stuff that is "universally good" will be less likely missed in the Skimming Frenzy.

[Also, anything that our ANF folks have posted on other forums that's worthwhile -- presuming said posts are still floating around -- ought to be rounded up as well.]

Once all of the Relevant Crap is collected, some poor soul will be selected for the arduous task of organizing it under Relevant Episode and making a crude outline of sorts. (Should DEATH be covered, as well?) At the same time, all of us should go back, watch the series again, and take note of any additional things that we think ought to be said.

Shin-seiki wrote:ps the official Japanese script (from killingmantras site) that you have translated for the Rei-ep25 thread (and other scenes Image ), could form the backbone for the project.

Image@Shin-seiki

Truthfully, I'm far too incompetent in Japanese to process the entire body of scripts for NGE -- at least, anytime soon. That would be a more long-term project that doing something as crazy as a collaborative written commentary! Besides, my script pages consist of four-column tables as it is -- try to squeeze tons of commentary in there and things would get pretty ugly. However, one thing I could do is the cut-by-cut breakdown with the little screenshots (which, even in and of itself, would take a huge amount of time), which would probably suffice in providing a framework to lay out comments upon (or, rather, to juxtapose our comments to relevent scenes/individual cuts).

MDWigs wrote:Website idea aside, we could make at start at scripting of sorts, by creating a thread for episode 01, discussing everything we deem important from that episode, and when that's fully run it's course, move onto episode 02, etc...

That way we at least have a groundwork for everything important that happens in a series and can at least make sure we dont miss anything out. From there we can get to the stage of delegating who says/explains what, but first things first I think.

So how SHOULD be go about doing this? Working on an episode-by-episode basis is a great idea, I think, but I'm also quite fond of the idea of milking preexisting writings for all they're worth. So where do we begin?

I'll be waiting for everyone's input! (So, er, assuming a project of this magnitude is officially a-go, should I start breaking down the cuts and taking tons of screen captures in my pockets of spare time?)

Originally posted on: 24-Apr-2004, 02:48 GMT

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Postby thewayneiac [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:57 pm

MDWigs wrote:Website idea aside, we could make at start at scripting of sorts, by creating a thread for episode 01, discussing everything we deem important from that episode, and when that's fully run it's course, move onto episode 02, etc...

For some reason the first thing I thought of when I read this was, "Ok, we need to be sure to point out the first of the many scenes where Shinji stares at his hand."

Originally posted on: 24-Apr-2004, 03:03 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:57 pm

Just on a side note, the item that we really ought to start with is the OP rather than the body of Episode #01. Yay! That means I get to mention Sammael-sama!!

Image

The OP is rather jam-packed with information; there are some things about it that I still have questions about. How's about I throw together screenshot page for that and we start the discussin'?

Well, I should probably wait for everyone's thoughts on my other post before I get too ahead of myself... Sleep is probably a good idea right now.

Originally posted on: 24-Apr-2004, 06:03 GMT

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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:57 pm

This may have been discussed before but that picture reminds me of a Seraphim, the highest rank of angels. Apparently their true form is beyond human understanding so they have 6 wings (Though the picture has 12) that cover their entire body leaving only their heads exposed. They are the angels that talk directly to God. I wonder if there is a connection.

Originally posted on: 24-Apr-2004, 06:28 GMT

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Postby Dr. Nick [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:57 pm

Reichu wrote:Setting the record straight would be only ONE facet of a commentary, I think. Personally, I would like it to be a compilation of many different things

Well, if we ever get this project up and running, the amount of text produced will be huge. That's why heavy editing will be required, so that useless repetitions, blunders and such will be deleted from the final version. And of course, even though there are no 12-year-old aolers here, thank Jebus, spelling and grammar check wouldn't hurt either.

Originally posted on: 24-Apr-2004, 09:14 GMT

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Postby Springymajig [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:57 pm

Not that I bothered to read all of this but I think a website could be more comprehensive and would avoid people like me asking questions every 2 minutes.

Originally posted on: 24-Apr-2004, 09:38 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:57 pm

Very nice idea. Image

When would we be planning to do this? I know I've got degree exams coming up in a couple of weeks, and I'm sure other members do as well.

Originally posted on: 24-Apr-2004, 10:59 GMT

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Postby MDWigs [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:57 pm

Reichu wrote:So how SHOULD be go about doing this? Working on an episode-by-episode basis is a great idea, I think, but I'm also quite fond of the idea of milking preexisting writings for all they're worth. So where do we begin?

I'll be waiting for everyone's input! (So, er, assuming a project of this magnitude is officially a-go, should I start breaking down the cuts and taking tons of screen captures in my pockets of spare time?)

Perhaps we can combine the two, work through the episodes, providing both new analysis as well as searching for previous writings that are applicable and then putting them together.

Of course there will be meta-topics that cover multiple episodes, so we will have to think about how we will treat those. Also we need to consider how to bring forth ideas such as (to pick an arbitrary example) whose soul is in Eva-00. There are a lot of important scenes in episode 5 on this issue, but it's not until episode 14 where you can really make some sort of confident comment. And there are all sorts of tangents that run off this, like the comment in episode 17, when Touji is chosen as the Fourth Children, that all the potentials are being kept in Shinji's class. That comment (and the subsequent mother/child link that it implies) is important when considering Eva-00, but doesn't come into play until later.

These issues shouldn't be hard to overcome; we just need to agree on a uniform way in which we should treat them.

I agree with Reichu on the general makeup of the commentary, it%ံDs got to be something people want to listen to, so it has to be funny in places, and informative, but also give opinions and impressions, and not have everyone talking over the top of everyone else. The technology to do online conferencing is fairly straight forward, everyone just needs a microphone basically (a good quality one if possible) and a relatively fast internet connection.

As for when we can do it, well like Sharp-kun I'm coming up to my University exams. Not that it has really stopped me before, but I will have to pull back a little then. From June onwards though I'm on summer holidays till about mid-semester, and though I'm planning on doing some travelling, I'm sure I'll have lots of time then to help out.

I wouldn't start collecting screenshots just key though Reichu, we can probably share that burden.

Originally posted on: 24-Apr-2004, 12:19 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:57 pm

MDWigs wrote:Perhaps we can combine the two, work through the episodes, providing both new analysis as well as searching for previous writings that are applicable and then putting them together.

Of course there will be meta-topics that cover multiple episodes, so we will have to think about how we will treat those.

Well, just to start out, we can dump the important multiple-episode issues into their own categories and figure out how we want to present the information later. Other stuff can be organized more succintly under the relevant episode or even scene/cut. I could throw together a webpage of sorts that would be our 'working blueprint', into which both new and old writings would be collected. The per-episode discussions should probably occur in this thread, unless we really want to make a new thread for each one. (Sharp-kun's the mod; what does he think?)

But how to handle something like which old stuff goes into the blueprint? I say everyone who has some time to kill goes through the past year of stuff, hand-pick anything we might want to use, and send the snippets to me so I can compile them into the blueprint. (And those of you with less free time... Er, I guess you can just look over the work the rest of us have done and make suggestions on anything we've blatantly missed that you think should be there, or whatever.) Assuming everyone's okay with me taking on this arduous task; I'm a sucker for punishment sometimes, so I think I'd actually *enjoy* putting it together. Image

Spamming the forum with the "old stuff" is probably a no-go, so how about this... PM me with the additions. (I say "PM" because my e-mail is currently being stupid... Image ) Copy+Paste the bits of text that you think should be added and include a link to the original thread (or particular page of threads). When I incorporate it into the blueprint, I'll include information like who made the original post and who recommended it for inclusion. It's perfectly okay to forward stuff you yourself have written, provided you're only doing it because you think it's valid/thought-provoking/witty/funny/whatever -- i.e., it's something that SHOULD be in the commentary, or is at least worth considering for inclusion. As I get 'recommendations', I'll update the website so everyone can check out what people are submitting, and all the meantime we'll be having 'new' discussions here. How does that sound to everyone?

<>

Wait... I thought there was a general consensus among the others that this should be written as opposed to spoken? That doesn't really matter at the moment, though, as everything needs to be scripted in advance anyway.

These issues shouldn't be hard to overcome; we just need to agree on a uniform way in which we should treat them.

Image So everyone who's planning on participating, share your thoughts!

As for when we can do it, well like Sharp-kun I'm coming up to my University exams. Not that it has really stopped me before, but I will have to pull back a little then. From June onwards though I'm on summer holidays till about mid-semester, and though I'm planning on doing some travelling, I'm sure I'll have lots of time then to help out.

We certainly need you and Sharp-kun, though personally this is a project that, if we're really going to go through with it, I'd like to have completely finished by the end of the summer. (Assuming I get into the university I'm applying to, I will have absolutely no free time starting this fall...) Certainly, we can start the 'skimming old materials' process now, at least...

I wouldn't start collecting screenshots just key though Reichu, we can probably share that burden.

Heh-heh, thing is, I already have a ridiculous number of screenshots already on my computer. Just counting all the files in my "Snappies (Unorganized)" folder, there are some 6,960. And anyways, if we do agree on using a webpage format where the episodes are broken down by cut number or something, I'd be the one who would have to put the screenshots together anyway, being as I can't think of anyone else around here who wants to look at the Japanese scripts and figure out the individual cuts.

I personally think having full episode screenshot breakdowns by cut number would be a very useful tool for throwing this together. It would give everyone a definite numerical way to refer to a particular scene, and such.

Dr. Nick wrote:Well, if we ever get this project up and running, the amount of text produced will be huge. That's why heavy editing will be required, so that useless repetitions, blunders and such will be deleted from the final version. And of course, even though there are no 12-year-old aolers here, thank Jebus, spelling and grammar check wouldn't hurt either.

Yes, I agree that the final product should be immaculate -- no typos or random spelling/grammar errors (unless they're done completely on purpose Image). Editing -- and lots of it.

tv33 wrote:This may have been discussed before but that picture reminds me of a Seraphim, the highest rank of angels. Apparently their true form is beyond human understanding so they have 6 wings (Though the picture has 12) that cover their entire body leaving only their heads exposed. They are the angels that talk directly to God. I wonder if there is a connection.

Well, that image would be one of the things that would be covered by the commentary. Indeed, that is a seraph, but it has twelve wings because it's not just any seraph -- it's Sammael (aka Satan), the greatest of the seraphim before his fall (and arguably after Image ). Obviously, that's the sort of topic for which we'd have to hit the books to make sure we get it completely right.

Originally posted on: 24-Apr-2004, 13:22 GMT

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Postby Dr. Nick [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:57 pm

Just a quick suggestion, what about color-coding the script passages according to their general topic category? For example, when we're killing classic n00b or AWL-errors, those should be written with flaming red, technical BS could be blue, highly controversial issues with orange etc.

Originally posted on: 24-Apr-2004, 13:34 GMT

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Postby MDWigs [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:57 pm

On the issue of actually doing an audio commentary, I was thinking more down the road, post website creation. If we have a website with all of this information there, we can use that as a script to do an actual audio commentary. Just a thought.

Everything else seems great to me. I've got some free time in the next couple of weeks before I really need to start studying so I'll do my best to go over what we've discussed here and pick up some good stuff (though I think the PM's have a character limit, so I'll stick all the stuff I find into a big file and upload it somewhere).

Colour coding sounds like a good idea too, I like flaming red for newb errors Image

I think we could produce some very good work out of this.

Originally posted on: 24-Apr-2004, 13:47 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:58 pm

MDWigs wrote:On the issue of actually doing an audio commentary, I was thinking more down the road, post website creation. If we have a website with all of this information there, we can use that as a script to do an actual audio commentary. Just a thought.

Hmm, yes, that is true... But, still, what about great ANFers like Dr. Nick (and Achtung_Affen, when he does show up)?

Everything else seems great to me. I've got some free time in the next couple of weeks before I really need to start studying so I'll do my best to go over what we've discussed here and pick up some good stuff (though I think the PM's have a character limit, so I'll stick all the stuff I find into a big file and upload it somewhere).

Hmm, I forgot about the damn character limit... Blah, whatever, send stuff to me via e-mail after all. Outlook Express is being a harpy, but I know a way to read my e-mails without it.

Colour coding sounds like a good idea too, I like flaming red for newb errors Image

Heh, we can figure all of that out later when we put the page together. I like the idea too, though.

So, er, I guess: SEND ME STUFF! [I.e., stuff that you should should be considered for inclusion in this commentary thing.] SEND ME YOUR MONEY AND YOUR VIRGIN SONS, TOO! [Probably kidding about that one.] And I'll start looking through the forum crap, myself, when I'm not trying to get some of my art projects done.

Originally posted on: 24-Apr-2004, 14:12 GMT


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