Commentary: Episode #03

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Postby Brendan Brown [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:30 pm

Reichu wrote:I really need to get a good map of Japan, namely of the Tokai region... There are some geographic clues in episode #01, but they never flat-out state where Misato goes to pick Shinji up. (Assuming that city is where he had been living.)

I got the impression that Shinji rode the rails as far as he could before they were all shut down when we find him at the beginning of episode one.

Originally posted on: 03-Jan-2005, 20:00 GMT

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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:30 pm

Reichu wrote:You hear a different teacher in episode #15, but I'm not sure if that means anything. Do they spend the entire day in that one classroom (2-A), or is it just their "home room"?

I believe that it's the former - teachers move around the building to their next class (except for things like sport, and presumably any science lessons with lab work).

Hexon.Arq wrote:I mean where did he come from originally? Before he got the summons to NERV, is that ever stated? (I could swear something was mentioned in the manga

The Viz manga gives Musashino, Tokyo 180 as the district part of the address on the letter he's carrying.

Brendan Brown wrote:I got the impression that Shinji rode the rails as far as he could before they were all shut down

And then maybe started to walk/hitch, given that she's having to search for him, but has some idea of where the rendezvous was expected.

Originally posted on: 03-Jan-2005, 10:22 GMT

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Postby Devilsbane [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:30 pm

Scene 8 Cut 318: As the core's luminous properties fade, a couple of internal cracks are no long seen. At least that is how it looks in motion. I thought it was a nice effect. One that is lost if viewed one frame at a time.

Originally posted on: 11-Jan-2005, 05:49 GMT

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Postby Brendan Brown [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:30 pm

On the last part:
Mr. Tines: Cue antique telephony infrastructure. Post 2I, a wireless rather than fixed line would have been a more obvious choice, just as in developing nations today.

I'm sure its obvious that it's an artistic choice. However it might be useful to expound upon why this is so.

I don't know how many here have actually been to Japan but one of the first things you notice is the nearly-netlike criss-crossing of telephone and electrical wires above urban streets.

Anno's mise en scène and composition often dwells on the linear and technical structures that tend to define modern Japan. The train tracks in 'Shiki-Jitsu' for instance. Additionally, observe a few episodes of 'His and Her Circumstances' and observe the traffic light metaphor. In fact, during one episode of 'His and Her', there is a monologue, about isolation and loneliness which includes a quick cut to a telephone pole with all its outgoing wires severed. Observe again in Episode one of Evangelion; the whipping wires respond to the geographic tremula that announces Sachiel's arrival to Shinji.

Gundampilotspaz made keen and insightful remarks during the episode one commentary on telephone poles being used as a sign of civilisation--something that degrades over the course of the series. Indeed I would guess that Anno's general strategy is the use of these slightly antiquated but everpresent symbols of Japan's industrialisation to portray character state.

We should come up with a snappy title for this sensibility. 'Wire-punk'? 'Cable-punk'?

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2005, 01:50 GMT

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Postby Syon [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:30 pm

#240 - If you look closer - you'll notice that Toji has 2 different birthdates.
Kinda weird? isn't it?

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2005, 20:14 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:30 pm

Brendan Brown wrote:The train tracks in 'Shiki-Jitsu' One episode of 'His and Her', during a monologue, about isolation and loneliness,

Sentence fragment?

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2005, 21:26 GMT

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Postby Brendan Brown [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:30 pm

whoops, fixed

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2005, 22:48 GMT

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Postby Gundampilotspaz [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:31 pm

190 - Shinji expects it to fall over after a few rounds of ammo. Shinji can't know what to expect and his personality would expect the best. The fact that a simple volly with the rife doesn't defeat it comes as a disappointed shock to the unenthusiastic saviour. Asuka makes the same mistake in 09 by underestimating the angle based on overestimation of her skill. Evangelion is a human drama, it is important for the characters to know that they are only human, not Gods. These such instances makes them realize that the angel's will not be easy. This realization also contributes to the deterioration of the characters, mostly Asuka, by the end of the series.

340 - This is also a final toss of the main theme of the episode, "The Hedgehog's Dilemma", it is easier for Toji to just blame Shinji and not to but a human face on him because of what he did to his sister. Toji blames him and thinks he can just walk away, but here he can't he is torn up inside and needs to release that frustration. But he doesn't know how. He comes to the only solution that he can in the final scene of the next episdoe. He couldn't solve that over the phone, Toji needs to solve things though physical contact.

Originally posted on: 25-Feb-2005, 22:52 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:31 pm

Gundampilotspaz wrote:190 - Shinji expects it to fall over after a few rounds of ammo. Shinji can't know what to expect and his personality would expect the best.

Since when does Shinji's personality expect the best?

Toji blames him and thinks he can just walk away, but here he can't he is torn up inside and needs to release that frustration. But he doesn't know how. He comes to the only solution that he can in the final scene of the next episdoe. He couldn't solve that over the phone, Toji needs to solve things though physical contact.

Toji clearly seems to be moved to call Shinji by guilt, not the sort of frustration you speak of. Unless I'm misinterpreting...

Episode #03 should be up-to-date now. If anyone has any suggestions for images that ought to have "big" versions, tho, I'd love to hear them...

Originally posted on: 26-Feb-2005, 01:57 GMT

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Postby Hexon.Arq [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:31 pm

OMFG, are we still on this one?!!

j/k, but it looks like we're going to have a very polished first three episodes for a very long time.

Originally posted on: 26-Feb-2005, 05:27 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:31 pm

Hexon.Arq wrote:j/k, but it looks like we're going to have a very polished first three episodes for a very long time.

Don't say that yet; I still have to finish updating episode #01! (At least, I think I do...) I just need closure on these babies before I can move on. My brain can only keep track of so much stuff.

Originally posted on: 26-Feb-2005, 05:37 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:31 pm

^Sorry I made more comments for 01.....Image

Originally posted on: 26-Feb-2005, 16:14 GMT

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Postby HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:31 pm

Waaaay behind schedule, but hey, that gives me less stuff to horribly mangle.

001: "Ohhh whether you're a mother or whether you're a brother you're staaayin' alive, staaayin' alive..."

005: Maybe it's pseudo-Engrish for "pellet?" Still doesn't sound particularly threatening though...which make it rather appropriate since the weapon turns out to be all but useless, heh.

006: But if that were the case, then Shinji would have to read an onscreen display of what Misato and Ritsuko were telling him, since their voices would only be heard as funny-sounding gibberish, thanks to the limits of the Evangelion's 16-bit technology.

014: Shoulda given him a shmup to practice with instead. Image

021: Buzz: "I'm setting my laser from 'stun'...to 'kill!'" Woody: "Oh, great! You can blink them to death!"

025: I think he looks more corpse-like than anything else...the way those shadows are placed make his face look bony and stretched, almost zombie-esque...

029: "Waking Up in the Morning" is another very "retro" sounding piece of BGM; tracks like this tend to give the scenes they play in a very surreal feeling, at least I think so.

Also, while this has nothing to do with the scene at hand, it's really sad that I actually know what you're talking about when you say "Hamtonian."

049: "Opposing forces," hm? Perhaps the black and white cat figurines were a passing reference to that? Probably not...

053: That was about all I ever could bring myself to use my T-square for back when I was a graphic design major, for a brief period.

054: As opposed to all those other anime classrooms (or anime ANYthing) that don't possess such an overabundance? Image

060: I once saw "iincho" translated as "chairperson," but that circumstance was widely criticized.

062: An early indication of Kensuke's self-centered personality...he's been so engrossed in his own fantasizing this whole time that he's forgotten completely about his friend.

070: 'Cuz the jocks always get special treatment. Bet he'll go to college on a football scholarship too, while he's at it. Image

073: A bunch of fanfiction writers more or less came to a consensus on a name to call Toji's sister in their stories, I forget what it was though...

080: Seeing as the teacher is more or less a joke, you can't blame Hikari for trying to create at least some fleeting sense of decorum in the classroom.

084: I guess that early retirement in a post-2I world really isn't much of an option...though supposedly teachers in Japan are paid better than they are around here (then again, so are garbage collectors).

096: Seems like the girls sent him a ENPM (Extremely Non-Private Message).

098: Her comment here suggests that she's as eager to find out about Shinji as everyone else, but that her duties as "iincho" are trumping her desire to know for the moment. Guess she takes the job pretty seriously...

099: "*sighh* "There he goes, revealing vital secrets about the organization which gives me reason for living...dum-de-dum...hey, look, a bird!"

106: So where are all of the impressed students ready to defend the "pride of their school?" Gotta give Gainax one thing, they definitely capture the spirit of classroom comraderie to a tee...

109: I did a quick search for "Bunta Sugawara," and discovered that he's an old Japanese actor who, I think, played a lot of "yakuza" (gangster) parts. Here's a picture I found of him:

Image

Maybe looks a little like ol' Toji.

113: Note that Toji really didn't seem outwardly angry when he first whalloped Shinji for injuring his sister: when Shinji basically says "You can't blame me for what happened," THAT'S what sets him off, since he can no longer feel any peace about having made the "scapegoat" pay for what he did.

127: I can only wonder if those leggy thingies were the inspiration for the things on the sides of Samm's head...made creating that old avatar that much more difficult. Image

Part 2 coming up...

Originally posted on: 15-Mar-2005, 08:53 GMT

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Postby HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:31 pm

Round Two...FIGHT!

134: "Especially considering that 50 percent of our current piloting staff lives there!"

142: I'd guess Misato was probably still asleep (or something like it, anyways) when the emergency call went out, as she's not fully in uniform here...guess she just threw on whatever was handy and rushed out.

163: Sneakers hanging around the neck and all...oy, what a jock!

177: Small proofreading venture: I think it should be "Judeo-Christian."

195: I half expect to see the Eva chest-deep in spent shells, a la "Hot Shots!"

204: "Well maybe I don't WANT your crummy old gun! That is SO like you, being focused on material things, all the time...well, I'm deeper than that! And furthermore..." *THWACK!*

206: "Yeah, unlike the first battle he had before you beat him up, when he was as graceful as a gazelle."

209: "You wouldn't hit a guy with, uh, solid black lines all over his face, would you?"

211: The debris! of course! THAT'S where the animation budget went!

222: Well, there's gotta be SOMEthing mechanical in there, if they hafta plug 'em in to make 'em work (sometimes). Image

225: Or else the animators just didn't care to draw in the damage...kinda like the programmers for the "Gran Turismo" games.

237: I tend to think that he just doesn't want the weight of having killed another human being on his conscience.

265: In the manga, Sadamoto chose to make Shinji the "rebel" when it came to this decision, and not Misato...if nothing else it made Shinji's next decision make a bit more sense.

275: Cuz then we couldn't see the surprise beneath the gloves, of course.

282: I might guess that its vibrating qualities and whatnot help it cut more efficiently, and thus "progress" into its target...'bout the best I could come up with.

296: Now who'd a thunk that Gainax would ever do something like that? Image

321: A new frame or two of animation, maybe. Image

340: I find it interesting that the script says he walks away "perplexed," as if he's wondering, "You know, WHY didn't I call him? I have no real reason not to." When you stop and think about almost any such thing people do, you'll likely come to the same conclusion...and end up doing the irrational thing anyway. Humanity really is frustrating, isn't it?

I'll get to episode 4 when the time is right...or possibly wrong.

Originally posted on: 14-Mar-2005, 21:37 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:31 pm

HeWhoPostsStuff wrote:005: Maybe it's pseudo-Engrish for "pellet?" Still doesn't sound particularly threatening though...which make it rather appropriate since the weapon turns out to be all but useless, heh.

"Useless" on all but the poorest excuse for an Angel, ol' #11.

006: But if that were the case, then Shinji would have to read an onscreen display of what Misato and Ritsuko were telling him, since their voices would only be heard as funny-sounding gibberish, thanks to the limits of the Evangelion's 16-bit technology.

You remember those crappy voices, too? :D

014: Shoulda given him a shmup to practice with instead. :D

Wouldn't a FPS be more appropriate? ;)

021: Buzz: "I'm setting my laser from 'stun'...to 'kill!'" Woody: "Oh, great! You can blink them to death!"

Yes, yes, that was the reference I was making. :)

025: I think he looks more corpse-like than anything else...the way those shadows are placed make his face look bony and stretched, almost zombie-esque...

At least they aren't giving us Shinji the Maggoty.

029: "Waking Up in the Morning" is another very "retro" sounding piece of BGM; tracks like this tend to give the scenes they play in a very surreal feeling, at least I think so.

When you say "surreal", what specifically are you referring to?

Also, while this has nothing to do with the scene at hand, it's really sad that I actually know what you're talking about when you say "Hamtonian."

I wouldn't have expected any less from you. Image I do wonder if that's the sort of reference most people who've watched NGE would pick up on. I ought to throw in an explanatory link for those who are going, "***ur?"

049: "Opposing forces," hm? Perhaps the black and white cat figurines were a passing reference to that? Probably not...

Shin-seiki will be sharing his theory on those... well, SOMEday. We can only hope.

054: As opposed to all those other anime classrooms (or anime ANYthing) that don't possess such an overabundance? :P

Heh heh, didn't you throw a similar comment out there before? The topic was on the theme of boobies in NGE... Did that even get into the commentary (at least, yet)?

060: I once saw "iincho" translated as "chairperson," but that circumstance was widely criticized.

Where was this?

062: An early indication of Kensuke's self-centered personality...he's been so engrossed in his own fantasizing this whole time that he's forgotten completely about his friend.

You think he was lying when he said nobody was at the Suzuhara residence?

070: 'Cuz the jocks always get special treatment. Bet he'll go to college on a football scholarship too, while he's at it. :P

Depends on whether or not he manages to "get better" from the injury he'll sustain later on... :(

073: A bunch of fanfiction writers more or less came to a consensus on a name to call Toji's sister in their stories, I forget what it was though...

Maiko, by chance?

096: Seems like the girls sent him a ENPM (Extremely Non-Private Message).

Yeah, how was the entire class in on it?

109: I did a quick search for "Bunta Sugawara," and discovered that he's an old Japanese actor who, I think, played a lot of "yakuza" (gangster) parts. Here's a picture I found of him:

The haircut looks vaguely similar, if nothing else. Maybe I should try tracking one of his films down.

113: Note that Toji really didn't seem outwardly angry when he first whalloped Shinji for injuring his sister: when Shinji basically says "You can't blame me for what happened," THAT'S what sets him off, since he can no longer feel any peace about having made the "scapegoat" pay for what he did.

Or didn't do, as the case may be.

127: I can only wonder if those leggy thingies were the inspiration for the things on the sides of Samm's head...made creating that old avatar that much more difficult. Image

Nawww. They were just a representation of Sammael's twelve wings. When he switches from his "corporeal" form (the bipedal hairball with dreads you're familiar with) to his "ethereal" one, his face basically detatches from his body and the energy-wings flow out from behind the head. So in the painting, which is sort of showing Samm in an intermediate form, around his face seemed to be the best place to put the wings.

Originally posted on: 27-Mar-2005, 08:37 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:31 pm

HeWhoPostsStuff wrote:142: I'd guess Misato was probably still asleep (or something like it, anyways) when the emergency call went out, as she's not fully in uniform here...guess she just threw on whatever was handy and rushed out.

Misato actually wears a number of different outfits to work (aside from her standard black one-piece with the cross pendant) in these early episodes, including jeans in the next episode. Her Official Nerv Bumfreezer seems to be the only mandatory part of her uniform, save for more formal occasions (as we'll see in episode #07).

163: Sneakers hanging around the neck and all...oy, what a jock!

But he's such a lovable jock!

177: Small proofreading venture: I think it should be "Judeo-Christian."

I think both spellings are valid. The "ae" variation is a bit less common, but you see this sort of thing a lot in English. (archaeology, encyclopaedia, aesthetic, etc.)

222: Well, there's gotta be SOMEthing mechanical in there, if they hafta plug 'em in to make 'em work (sometimes). Image

The mechanical crap is all concentrated in the upper vertebral region... The Eva's locomotive processes seem to be entirely organic. I can't imagine what would be making that sound.

225: Or else the animators just didn't care to draw in the damage...kinda like the programmers for the "Gran Turismo" games.

Cynical, ain't ya?!

237: I tend to think that he just doesn't want the weight of having killed another human being on his conscience.

"Another"? Who was the first?

282: I might guess that its vibrating qualities and whatnot help it cut more efficiently, and thus "progress" into its target...'bout the best I could come up with.

Interesting. Although about the "cutting", I think technically the knife doesn't really do that... Here's what Ye Olde Platinum Booklet says:

[Progressive Knife]
The close-quarters combat weapon that is standard issue for the Evangelions. It is normally stored in the shoulder and is ejected and used when necessary in combat. The abbreviated name is prog knife. Unlike an ordinary knife, which cuts apart the target object with its hardness and sharpness, the prog knife uses a blade made of particles oscillating at high frequency and separates and severs any matter it comes in contact with at a molecular level. From EVA-02 and onwards, a box cutter-type (even if the blade is damaged, it can be made useful again by pushing out more of the blade) is adopted for the units.

321: A new frame or two of animation, maybe. Image

Image

340: I find it interesting that the script says he walks away "perplexed," as if he's wondering, "You know, WHY didn't I call him? I have no real reason not to." When you stop and think about almost any such thing people do, you'll likely come to the same conclusion...and end up doing the irrational thing anyway. Humanity really is frustrating, isn't it?

Hells yeah! I do stuff like this all the bloody time. I exist to frustrate myself.

Speaking of this cut, I took a look at the Checkpoint comment for this scene in the film book...

Toji is told Shinji's telephone number by Kensuke. But partway through pushing the buttons, he hung up. Did he not make the call because of his "stubborn personality" (according to Kensuke), or...?



Originally posted on: 26-Mar-2005, 21:18 GMT

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Postby HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:31 pm

Reichu wrote:You remember those crappy voices, too? Image

How could one forget? Actually, I've heard that a certain "doujin" programmer made a shmup spoof of Star Fox, which pays "homage" to the old gibberish voices, though I haven't played it.

Wouldn't a FPS be more appropriate?

Bah...well, an FPS for shooting and a shmup for dodging skills, definitely.

When you say "surreal", what specifically are you referring to?

Mainly in the sense that NGE overall is focused on the divisions between people, the things they do to hurt each other, etc., while such "Leave it to Beaver-esque" tunes as this one are unapologetically happy-go-lucky, as if the soundtrack is trying to ignore what's going on and half-heartedly attempting to put a happy "spin" on it...in this scene, for instance, Misato is more or less completely brushing Shinji off and making him feel worthless, but the music suggest a scene along the lines of "Honey, I'm home! And guess what, I got a raise and Junior won the science fair!" "That's just spiff-er-iffic, darling! The house is spick and span and the pork chops with applesauce are just about ready, here are your slippers!" The latter scenario, and the music which suggests it, is otherwordly enough as it is, but putting it on top of a scene like this one only makes it even weirder to listen to, from my point of view.

Heh heh, didn't you throw a similar comment out there before? The topic was on the theme of boobies in NGE... Did that even get into the commentary (at least, yet)?

I don't know, you're the one who decides what gets added and what doesn't, heh. But seriously, whenever anyone feels it's necessary to note "Wow, there sure are a lot of aesthetically-pleasing underage girls and large mammary glands in this...oh, and giant mecha too!" seriously, this is all anime bread and butter.

Where was this?

A certain video game I own, called "Project Justice," sequel to high-school-anime-stereotype fighting game "Rival Schools," I think I once showed it to you. Pretty obscure, but such a translation has happened, not really necessary to include in the commentary though.

You think he was lying when he said nobody was at the Suzuhara residence?

Why do you think he tries to hide all the papers he was supposed to have given Toji when Hikari comes by? I'll bet they never even left his desk.

Maiko, by chance?

It's been a long time since I last heard it, but it was something along those lines...

But he's such a lovable jock!

Closest thing to an oxymoron I've heard in some time. Image

The mechanical crap is all concentrated in the upper vertebral region... The Eva's locomotive processes seem to be entirely organic. I can't imagine what would be making that sound.

Is there a drawing or the like which can semi-definitively prove that? Most of the few times we see the Evas "nekkid" it does seem that there isn't much cybernetic stuff on most of their bodies, but considering that their "armor" is attached to something beneath their skin, and are supposed to act as "restraints," one might figure that they'd have to be attached to something non-organic to do their job...

Cynical, ain't ya?!

Who, me?

"Another"? Who was the first?

By "another" I just meant "a different human being than himself," no one in particular...I just figure that Shinji wouldn't particularly like the idea that he was responsible for killing anyone, especially considering his reaction (or lack thereof) when he faces Toji in a slightly more intense situation...

Interesting. Although about the "cutting", I think technically the knife doesn't really do that...

Well, "cut," "atomize," whatever, it basically amounts to "make a really big owwie." I think my idea for the origin of the term "progressive" is at least a possibility either way.

I think that covers most of the stuff that might need further comment at this point...

Originally posted on: 26-Mar-2005, 23:08 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:32 pm

^ NGE always seemed to be the kind of show that covered up the "darkness" of its own premise, and it was easy to forget how bad it was then....and it got more and more open about this "darkness".The manga is less discreate obvisously, as are many "dark" anime. And of course, EOE goes all out. That's what I find so attractive about this series, it's much like a human (mind, heart?) in that respect (or as Sadamoto put it, "a delinqent"...or something to that effect....
(I GOTTA use this somewhere in the commentary, HWPS's statement above just made me think of it now.

Originally posted on: 26-Mar-2005, 23:17 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:32 pm

HeWhoPostsStuff wrote:Why do you think he tries to hide all the papers he was supposed to have given Toji when Hikari comes by? I'll bet they never even left his desk.

It was a pretty good lie, then, being as Toji flat-out tells us that his father and grandfather are always at work, and Toji himself has been keeping his sister company at the hospital.

Is there a drawing or the like which can semi-definitively prove that? Most of the few times we see the Evas "nekkid" it does seem that there isn't much cybernetic stuff on most of their bodies, but considering that their "armor" is attached to something beneath their skin, and are supposed to act as "restraints," one might figure that they'd have to be attached to something non-organic to do their job...

There is a layer of stuff beneath the shiny armor plates that seems to all be directly bolted onto (or otherwise unpleasantly affixed) the skin; I'm guessing they hold the "exo-armor" in place. (You can see some of this stuff in #19, after (A) Zeruel blasts Sho to get at the core and (B) Yui-sama pops off the pylons and various other things.) The standard pectoral plate, at least, seems to "snap" into place, judging by the little "pegs" we see on the underside (EVA-03's in the manga after Sho rips it off). The infrastructure remains entirely organic, however.

As far as the visual evidence goes, I'll pull it all out when I make my Uber-Presentation on the Evas, sometime in the future.

Originally posted on: 26-Mar-2005, 23:24 GMT

HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF]
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Postby HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:32 pm

Reichu wrote:It was a pretty good lie, then, being as Toji flat-out tells us that his father and grandfather are always at work, and Toji himself has been keeping his sister company at the hospital.

Either scenario is possible, I suppose, but if he actually tried to get the stuff to Toji, then what does he have to feel guilty about, and thus try to hide the papers for?

I'll get to ep. 4 when I get the chance...'course, the comment of mine which you already put there will make my rather unflattering Toji comments for this ep look downright hypocritical in retrospect, heh.

Originally posted on: 26-Mar-2005, 23:29 GMT


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