Commentary: Episode #02

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:30 pm

Well, 5/8 of this thing are ready for you guys, so why not? (Scenes 6~8 are, of course, forthcoming.) The site's homepage is now here, and I'm sure you can find your way to episode #02 from there. (At the moment, I have no idea how to link directly to these pages without giving each individual page its own frameset. There's a way, I'm sure, but I suck too much to figure it out right now.) There aren't too many comments from me yet, just some stuff that came to mind while I was making the pages. Odds are I won't be able to add more until I get settled in at my dorm and I have time to waste, and gawd knows when that'll be. Meantime, though, have fun!

Just a note, as of this posting, most of the thumbnails have not finished uploading. (The Internet is crap tonight...) Hopefully, they'll finish up within the next hour or so unsupervised, but you never know.

And on a completely pointless side note, Maaya Sakamoto still rules. Thank you. Image

Originally posted on: 27-Aug-2004, 07:25 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:30 pm

201:
Image
Oooh! Face plant!!

213:
I wonder: just how, exactly, does one go about getting an EVA to "deploy" an AT Field? It's doesn't correspond to anything a human normally consciously does, like moving one's arms and legs...

Originally posted on: 27-Aug-2004, 11:48 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:30 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:201:
I wonder: just how, exactly, does one go about getting an EVA to "deploy" an AT Field? It's doesn't correspond to anything a human normally consciously does, like moving one's arms and legs...

In some scenes it takes up a macho pose.

Originally posted on: 27-Aug-2004, 12:50 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:30 pm

(Skipping ahead to one of my favorite moments in #02...)

073:
Image
"...and don't worry, it's not like I'm going to "put the moves" on a kid."

Here Anno presents us with a nice little "irony bomb", which will tick away, out of sight and out of mind, until it goes off around twenty or so episodes later.

Originally posted on: 27-Aug-2004, 13:43 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:30 pm

Sharp-kun wrote:In some scenes it takes up a macho pose.

I suppose you're refering to, say, this?
Image

Originally posted on: 27-Aug-2004, 14:20 GMT

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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:30 pm

013- Is it me or does the American guy look like an evil Teddy Roosevelt?

018- The abbreviations refer to the branches of the Japanese military.

JSSDF -Japanese Strategic Self Defense Forces
JGSDF- Japan Ground Self-Defense Force (Army)
JASDF- Japan Air Self-Defense Force (Air force)
JMSDF- Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (Navy)

They have to be called 20;Self defense21; forces because after WWII the Japanese were banned from using their army in an offensive manner. It's a normal army in all but name though, the Japanese spend about 43 billion dollars a year on their military, the second most in the world behind the US.

023 11; This makes me wonder how much the committee actually knows about the Eva's.

034 11; This scene style is used in episode 23 when Rei III is in the hospital.

064 11; Shinji looks away first, Gendo wins.

125 11; GAINAX is just being true to the laws of physics, well that and the laws of "service"...

Originally posted on: 27-Aug-2004, 15:23 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:30 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:213:
I wonder: just how, exactly, does one go about getting an EVA to "deploy" an AT Field? It's doesn't correspond to anything a human normally consciously does, like moving one's arms and legs...

There seem to be several functions in the Eva that are not controlled 'ordinarily', i.e., by simply thinking about it. Engaging the weapons stored in the pylons would be a prime example, as the pylons are not part of the Eva's body (perhaps the reason why 'berserk' Evas don't play with knives?). Others would be amplifying the magnification of the display screens and using the cockpit's communication capabilities.

There is a possibility that deploying the defensive emanation of the A.T. Field is one of these special functions, as well. The entry plug apparently makes contact with the core itself, so perhaps the same technology that allows synchronization with the resident soul also 'stimulates' the soul to deploy the ATF. Higher synchronization levels might 'open' the ATF's other capabilities to the pilot, such as the zippity-zoom used by Shinji in #12 and the ATF jump and offensive ATF used by Asuka in #25' (although, in the latter case, I think there was something going on besides a mere 'high synch'...).

I wonder if evidence for the ATF being controlled 'mechanically' might be in #23, when Rei activates "Mode D" of "Drive B" to reverse the ATF. Makes me wonder what the heck Modes A through C and Drive A are...

Originally posted on: 27-Aug-2004, 16:07 GMT

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Postby thewayneiac [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:30 pm

185: Finally! After a whole week we get to see what happens!

214: Now thats gotta hurt.

001: Hey! Wait a minute! We still don't get to see what happens?! How can they do this twice in the same fight? I suppose it means something that he's still alive.

012: I've noticed that in the credits for the French language version on ADV's original DVDs, they are billed as Mr. Green, Mr. Yellow, Mr. Red, And Mr. Blue.

023: Hey, be fair, Mr. Red. There wasn't any one else.

024: Considering what they are going to do, why do they care how much money this costs?

029: Hmmm... I thought that project couldn't be completed until the Angels had all been delt with. Did Anno not know that at this point?

030: Hey, magic!

036: Oh yeah. You're the wuss who almost made me pilot.

051: Yes, this is more of a wrist stare then a hand stare, but I think we should count it in our hand stare count. And like I said, each one seems to nearly always be in a different context than the one before it.

057: Well, at least the EVAs don't fire revolvers like the Labors from Patlabor.

073: Why don't I believe her?

084: Crow calls are often used in Anime to question the characters' intelligence, but I doubt if that's the case here.

091: The physics of this are next to impossible. Do they have any idea how much horsepower it would take to lift just one of these buildings? And as we saw in Ep. 1, the buildings are sticking down into the Geo-front, so there aren't even any elevators under them. There must just be equipment in the shafts rolling them up and down.

Whoops, gotta go. More later.

Originally posted on: 27-Aug-2004, 16:21 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:30 pm

12:
Image
Well, here they are; the true villains of this story, tho the true depth of their ruthlessness and depravity only becomes apparent towards the end...
This is SEELE (or to be more precise, the Instrumentality Committee, to which Gendo answers directly).

In closing credits for ADV's French dub...
Image

...you can see that Committee members are identified as Messieurs Vert, Jaune, Rouge, and Bleu (Green, Yellow, Red, and Blue)

Here's a pic excerpted from page 137 of the NewType 100% Collection artbook; here Yellow is identified with France, Red with England, Blue with Russia, and Green (presumably) with America. Keel, of course, represents Germany.
I wonder if they got all that right, in that Red seems to match the typical Japanese stereotype of an American (tall, blond, square-jawed), while Green, perhaps, seems more the British type, what with the bushy mustache and all...

Originally posted on: 27-Aug-2004, 16:42 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:30 pm

Hmm... A few comments right now can't hurt...

Image 194: I want shoes that look like that...

Image 200: Here, I always thought it looked like she tripped over the umbilical cable, but on closer inspection, it really is just a matter of Shinji losing balance... "Shinji, you must be one with the Eva's inner ears!"

Image Image 201: Considering the angle that EVA-01's horn is supposed to be at, how can she fall flat on her face? Is there some kind of joint or special allowance that allows the horn to shift its angle just for times like this? Honestly, I don't see how...

Image 202: Even through the armor, it still hurts.

Image 205: I have to wonder about Sachiel's palm here... Is that red structure some kind of sphincter (for lack of a better word) that opens up when he uses his lance weapon?

206: "EVA-01 is like a marionette whose strings were cut; Sachiel moves like a crane, machine-like." Interesting metaphors... The Evas are repeatedly referred to as "dolls" (ningyou) or "toys" (omocha), while both they and the Angels suffer the indignity of being compared to machines -- which, as will be increasingly apparent, neither are. Granted, here the animator certainly did his job; Sachiel's movement is very mechanical, and the accompanying sound effect reinforces this.

Image 228: Sachiel using the same trick as he did back in episode #02...
Image

Image 230: I find it odd that there is not blood on Sachiel's lance when he retracts it, considering the amount that spouts out afterwards. It's interesting that blood spurts out at all, actually. Being as the lance is amplified by energy, I would presume that it is rather hot; ergo, might any injury inflicted by it be automatically sealed by cautery? (I remember my sister using this as an argument for why light saber duels are relatively bloodless. Image )

232: The word I translated as "critical" typically means "fatal" or "mortal", but that would sound strange, considering the bridge crew treats Eva as some kind of robotic entity. Later on, it also becomes blatantly obvious that what the bridge considers "critical damage" is just the tip of the iceberg: Evas are experts at taking punishment like nobody's business. "Broken arm? Hole in the head? Big deal. That all you got, punk!?! BRING IT ON!!!"

Originally posted on: 27-Aug-2004, 16:59 GMT

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Postby Keisuke-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:30 pm

wow Great site. I don't mind if you put my real name by the way. Gustavo Barona (aka Gus). Sorry about you havign to go through the trouble to change Washu-chan all over the commentary Image


Well heres my commentary...

201: ...I think Eva-01's horn just bent...

205: These little orbs a seem interesting. Any theories on them? All I got is that maybe they harbor their own energy to power the lance of light.

207: The entry plug viewscreen seem to have a lot of Blind spots.

213: Defense system? Like what anti-personel electrical system along the eva's armor?

220: That was rather unnecessary.

223A: hmmm. Cranium. It seems they consider the evas armor as more of an exo-skeleton sometimes...

001: ...Goddamnit...

002: You guys said the cicadas are symbolic for something and maybe they are but they are annoying as hell here in Japan.

007: On a side not; It seem to crack my Japanese friends up whenever I say "知らない天井" (shiranaitenjou=unknown ceiling)

012: Where did you get that info (countries)?

018: JSSDF I believe is Japanese Strategic Self Defence force. JASDF is just the Japanese Air Self Defense Force. SSDF is maybe just since its in Japan they assume that the Japanese part is infered.

057: Well it is just a 120mmrifle (probably weighning around 15 tons). I mean she doesn't really have to worry about people stealing it.

060: BGM Start: "Its Gendo!"

um The little button to scene 4 is missing on the page for Scene 3. Just pinting it out if you didn't notice Image

070: Translation note: 1人のほうがいいんです: That translates to "Im fine with being alone." "Id rather be alone" has a slightly differnet meaning.

107: Looks more like her appartment is the only one occupied. None of the other balconies have anything one them.

132: On a side note Gu is rock and Pa is paper and Choki is, as sais, scissors.

Thats my commentary for now.

Originally posted on: 27-Aug-2004, 17:06 GMT

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Postby evolve [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:30 pm

214: This was the point, for me at least, when I realized Evangelion wasn't your average giant robot show. The BGM they chose for this scene perfectly conveys Shinji's terror and Sachiel's viciousness.

Originally posted on: 27-Aug-2004, 17:31 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:30 pm

Keisuke-kun wrote:wow Great site. I don't mind if you put my real name by the way. Gustavo Barona (aka Gus). Sorry about you havign to go through the trouble to change Washu-chan all over the commentary Image

Heh, it's actually not a big deal. Just a matter of "Find/Replace".

201: ...I think Eva-01's horn just bent...

But it's fine later on. Image Image

205: These little orbs a seem interesting. Any theories on them? All I got is that maybe they harbor their own energy to power the lance of light.

See my post above. It certainly looks orb-like, but consider that this structure must allow the passage of Sachiel's lance. To make matters more confusing, 217 says, "A structure in the center of Sachiel's hand also begins to light up", implying that this structure serves as an energy focus point of some sort. Or perhaps the center of his palm is only lighting up because the lance (which already lit up in 216) is beginning to emerge.

213: Defense system? Like what anti-personel electrical system along the eva's armor?

Pardon? I'm not sure what you mean here.

220: That was rather unnecessary.

I always found it odd that Misato tells Shinji to "dodge". Considering the situation EVA-01 is in, the more logical course of action would be to escape from Sachiel's clutches.

223A: hmmm. Cranium. It seems they consider the evas armor as more of an exo-skeleton sometimes...

See my comments for 230 and 010... Yeah, it is a little odd that they reference the Eva's actual skeleton here. I'm also wondering exactly how the bridge monitors the Eva's body like this; what kind of technology allows them to know a single bone is in the process of being fractured?

007: On a side not; It seem to crack my Japanese friends up whenever I say "知らない天井" (shiranaitenjou=unknown ceiling)

Do they have any idea that you're referencing NGE?

012: Where did you get that info (countries)?

See Shin-seiki's post; the old farts' countries of origin are provided in production drawings.

um The little button to scene 4 is missing on the page for Scene 3. Just pinting it out if you didn't notice Image

Yeah, I noticed that after the fact. Heh. I'll fix it later.

070: Translation note: 1人のほうがいいんです:;: That translates to "Im fine with being alone." "Id rather be alone" has a slightly differnet meaning.

Hmm, good point. I'll fix that later, as well.

BTW, if anyone can view Word documents in Japanese, I have the scripts for the first two episodes all typed up. Available upon request!

107: Looks more like her appartment is the only one occupied. None of the other balconies have anything one them.

Hmm, interesting... That probably wouldn't have registered with me unless someone pointed it out. I guess when Shinji remarked on how desolate the city was, he really did have a point.

132: On a side note Gu is rock and Pa is paper and Choki is, as sais, scissors.

The Literal Translation Project has a full explanation:

#JANKEN is similar to TOSSING A COIN. JANKEN is a convenient
#and popular way to decide the winner because many people can
#do together and need only their own hands.
#Rule: You can do three kinds of hand's forms, GU, CHOKI, PA.
#GU is 'stone', CHOKI is 'Scissors' and PA is 'paper'. GU can defeat
#CHOKI, CHOKI can defeat PA and PA can defeat GU. Guess the
#reasons. The situation when no one wins is called AIKO.
#In this case, Misato who showed GU finally win the game over
#Shinji who showed CHOKI after four AIKO.

Sometime, I hope to get in touch with Wada-kun and ask if we can use some of his notes. If I don't get a response... we'll just use them anyway. Image

evolve wrote:214: This was the point, for me at least, when I realized Evangelion wasn't your average giant robot show. The BGM they chose for this scene perfectly conveys Shinji's terror and Sachiel's viciousness.

Aw, come now, Sachiel's not really "vicious". He's just in a rotten mood. "Man... First I get duped into walking on an N2 Mine, and now this? What's wrong, losers? Your ultimate weapon can't even walk? Let's see if it can take this... And maybe a little of this... Oh crap! I pissed it off!! Please forgive me please forgive me please forgive me! I didn't mean to almost step on your son, honestly! And I'm really sorry about your eye, ma'am -- I really am! No, dear god, not the core...! Not the core...!!!! AHHHHHhhhh I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!" :bear hug: :kaboom:

Heh, enough fooling around for me... I seriously have to get stuff done!

Originally posted on: 27-Aug-2004, 17:39 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:31 pm

053B:
Image

ADV has helpfully provided us with a translation of all that:

The most interesting tidbit of info here is the completion date, August 2015, which maybe implies that Shinji arrived in Tokyo 3 sometime in the summer. This would indicate that the whole story plays out over the course of six months or so (assuming that the reference to 2016 in #26 is implying that the climax of the story is at the very end of 2015...)

Originally posted on: 27-Aug-2004, 17:46 GMT

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Postby thewayneiac [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:31 pm

201: Hah! Clumsoid.

213: Yeah, Shinji should have to yell something like, "EVA AT-Field, Deploy!", (in English.)

105-106: This is a rather important exchange of dialog, which will be repeated Ep. 4, and again, most notably, in EOE. This is the traditional thing to say when arriving home.

108-111: She's going to have a bug problem if she doesn't do something.

117: I'm not sure you want to know.

120: The camera, (so to speak), should have been placed in a more advantageous position.

128: If you ask me, she's already, "putting the moves", on him here.

130: O.K., now she's putting the moves on us.

135: Probably in their original translation they just didn't want to go there, so they went out of their way to make it look as if she weren't implying anything, but as I said in #128, I think she is deliberately flirting with him here. Plus, they thought it made it funnier. The way things turned out, they were probably right to eliminate this change.

Originally posted on: 28-Aug-2004, 08:13 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:31 pm

Just going to reply to a couple of points before my afternoon outing:

Shin-seiki wrote:Here Anno presents us with a nice little "irony bomb", which will tick away out of sight and out of mind, until it goes off around twenty or so episodes later.

In the final, would it be okay if we just linked to the corresponding scene from #23? (Granted, there won't be a page for #23 for some time. Image ) I suspect that we will be linking around the commentary pages quite a bit before this is through.

tv33 wrote:023- This makes me wonder how much the committee actually knows about the Eva's.

C "We understand that you gave that toy to your son, did you not?" <-- What about that puts the committee's knowledge of the Evas into question? Just curious.

thewayneiac wrote:185: Finally! After a whole week we get to see what happens!

Ah, the wonders of watching shows on DVD long after they have aired...

Hey! Wait a minute! We still don't get to see what happens?! How can they do this twice in the same fight?

Because they know how to manipulate their audience. Image

024: Considering what they are going to do, why do they care how much money this costs?

It gives them something to gripe to Gendou about.

029: Hmmm... I thought that project couldn't be completed until the Angels had all been delt with. Did Anno not know that at this point?

Hmm, yeah, really. Is there really anything Gendo is supposed to be doing to further the project aside from overseeing the slaughter of Adam's offspring? (Do all of the stuff with the Spear and Lilith, I suppose.)

030: Hey, magic!

NGE has a very strange combination of the high-tech and the low-tech (the latter being technology that, in 2015, is crappier than what we have now). This is obviously a case of the former. Hologram technology (is such a thing even scientifically feasible?) has become quite impressive, able to generate in mid-air giant tactical displays, computer monitors, interactive panels, creepy committee men, and, later on, the infamous Seele monoliths. Apparently real-time translation technology has been developed as well -- or perhaps the fact that they all speak Japanese can simply be attributed to the Magic of Fiction.

091: The physics of this are next to impossible. Do they have any idea how much horsepower it would take to lift just one of these buildings? And as we saw in Ep. 1, the buildings are sticking down into the Geo-front, so there aren't even any elevators under them. There must just be equipment in the shafts rolling them up and down.

The physics of NGE in general are impossible. I'm sure whatever mystical force permits immense 50-meter-tall entities to sprint across the Japanese countryside -- or to move at all, for that matter -- makes the technology behind the ceiling buildings elementary. Speaking of the ceiling buildings, did anybody actually download that Newtype stuff tv33 and I translated...?

Shin-seiki wrote:I wonder if they got all that right, in that Red seems to match the typical Japanese stereotype of an American (tall, blond, square-jawed), while Green, perhaps, seems more the British type, what with the bushy mustache and all...

I think tv33 was onto something when he said, "Is it me or does the American guy look like an evil Teddy Roosevelt?"

ADV has helpfully provided us with a translation of all that

I'm actually going to look over this sign later and make sure they got it all right...

Originally posted on: 27-Aug-2004, 21:50 GMT

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Postby Keisuke-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:31 pm

[quote]See my post above. It certainly looks orb-like, but consider that this structure must allow the passage of Sachiel's lance. To make matters more confusing, 217 says, "A structure in the center of Sachiel's hand also begins to light up", implying that this structure serves as an energy focus point of some sort. Or perhaps the center of his palm is only lighting up because the lance (which already lit up in 216) is beginning to emerge.[\quote]
So maybe instead of harboring its own energy it channels energy from Sachiels core.

Pardon? I'm not sure what you mean here.

Well they seem to be suggesting that the Eva has a system to pretect itself that is seperate from the pilot commands. Vehicles sometimes have anti-personnel systems on them like the Nautalis from 20,000 leagues under teh sea. Its has and electrified hull in case some injuns drop by and try to get in. Im sure the Eva doesnt have one of those but they are implying that some kind of defense system is present.

I always found it odd that Misato tells Shinji to "dodge". Considering the situation EVA-01 is in, the more logical course of action would be to escape from Sachiel's clutches.

And judging from Shinjis previous performance I doubt he could manage that.

See my comments for 230 and 010... Yeah, it is a little odd that they reference the Eva's actual skeleton here. I'm also wondering exactly how the bridge monitors the Eva's body like this; what kind of technology allows them to know a single bone is in the process of being fractured?

Probably not that fancy. It doesn't sound too impractical to me at least...

Do they have any idea that you're referencing NGE?

After I told them. They've seen the show but they haven't memorized the lines or anything. I also call my friend つまらない男 . He finds that kind of funny too.

See Shin-seiki's post; the old farts' countries of origin are provided in production drawings.

Yeh I saw that after I posted. This probably shouldn't be put until we see the monoliths but when seele uses sound only there are a lot more members.

BTW, if anyone can view Word documents in Japanese, I have the scripts for the first two episodes all typed up. Available upon request!

Could I get episode I and the completed Episode II?

Interesting... That probably wouldn't have registered with me unless someone pointed it out. I guess when Shinji remarked on how desolate the city was, he really did have a point.

We never really see evidence that Tokyo 3 is very populated (besides a couple traffic jams but that is expected when you evacuate a city). I expect that half the people who live there are Nerv personnel (mind Nerv would have a ****-load of employees. Not just for the command center but janitors, gaurds, office ladies, scientists, reception, maintenece, engineers, architects, ect, ect. Reis apartment building seems to be empty too.

The Literal Translation Project has a full explanation:

theres also a variation called "Gu, choki, pa" (or "Gu, Pa" "Choki pa" "gu choki") Its bascially for picking teams. I play it all the time in kyudo to pick which set we will be in. I think the chant goes something like "Gu pa choki wo wakaremasho!" Im probably a little off on that Image

Originally posted on: 28-Aug-2004, 05:41 GMT

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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:31 pm

Reichu wrote:C "We understand that you gave that toy to your son, did you not?" <-- What about that puts the committee's knowledge of the Evas into question? Just curious.


To me it seems to imply that he thinks anyone can pilot an Eva. Gendo did not give it to him, Shinji was the only one who could pilot it (Well except for Rei, but she was in no condition).

Originally posted on: 28-Aug-2004, 05:41 GMT

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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:31 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:213:
I wonder: just how, exactly, does one go about getting an EVA to "deploy" an AT Field? It's doesn't correspond to anything a human normally consciously does, like moving one's arms and legs...

Well, it is clear to see in many shots that the pilot of an EVA has his hands on what appear (at first, before one knows better) to be a control console. In fact on my first viewing of NGE, for a good few episodes I was convinced that this had as much to do with piloting one as any neurological elements. How little I knew! Image

On the other hand, as Reichu stated, there are many functions to the EVAs which would seem to be under mechanical rather than neurological control, weapons and such. I prefer to believe that the EVA pilot must deploy an AT field by strength of will alone, that it is something which EVA pilots can do to differing levels of power and control.

On a rather surprising third hand, which will no doubt come in useful for many things (Image), I'm certain that some of the EVA's more 'mechanical' parts are controlled through the hand grips.

On a side note:

Reichu wrote:I wonder if evidence for the ATF being controlled 'mechanically' might be in #23, when Rei activates "Mode D" of "Drive B" to reverse the ATF. Makes me wonder what the heck Modes A through C and Drive A are...

I thought that it had been firmly established that Rei was capable of generating her OWN AT field, independantly of the EVA unit? I was certainly under that impression. Although my understanding of the latter part of the series is patchy, to say the least, I was under the impression that she, and not her EVA was the source of the AT field that she employed. I run the risk of looking irretrievably stupid here...

Originally posted on: 28-Aug-2004, 06:34 GMT

Keisuke-kun [ANF]
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Postby Keisuke-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:31 pm

I don't think she knows she can do the AT field untill Kaworu shows up. He tells her that they are the same and she wonders how and then he goes and does his little thing and she realizes what he means. Thats what I think.

I think the ATF is something they do through will but can't do it right away. They need training. Like mediatating. Most people can't do it but if they train they learn how

Originally posted on: 28-Aug-2004, 20:26 GMT


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