Commentary: Episode #01

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Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:24 pm

Reichu wrote:“Maintaining the restraints” would presumably also involve replacing the armor when it gets busted, as with EVA-01's helmet in #02 and her pectoral plates in #06. In other words, they would get free peeks of the Evas from time to time.

Free peeks? You really do have a special relationship with the species known as Evangellion don't you, Reichu?

{EVANGELION} <----- Image Image <---- {Reichu!} Image

You have to respect devotion like this.




Reichu wrote:Are you implying that Asuka is somehow an unsympathetic character?

Are you seriously trying to imply that Asuka is a sympathetic character? C'mon, Reichu, the girl is too rude to everyone she knows to get the heartfelt sympathy vote from me!

Reichu wrote:I'm not saying that you were being serious, but – episode #05's “fortuitous accident” nonwithstanding -- Shinji doesn't strike me as the kind of Typical Anime Pervert who would do that. He does crack under heavy, continuous pressure (see the beginning of #25', ahem-ahem), but otherwise he has a very refined sense of ‘decency' (not to mention he is incredibly shy). A lot of things are rolling through his head when he sees Rei, but making a deliberate attempt to “cop a feel” isn't one of them.

No, I suppose not. And being the kind of guy who would crank one out over a comatose girl is totally not the same thing. Or is it? I know what teenage boys are like -- I was one! He was thinking how nice it would be to grab her from second one. Plus, he's got the whole forbidden oedipal thing going on! That's gotta be making him nutty as a fruitcake! : Image


PS: I may (or may not) be posting while rather drunk, so please remember that this may (or may not) be just some random idiocy that popped into my addled mind late on a Saturday night. Any offence which is given is therefore pardonable under the "Temporary Insanity due to Jack Daniels" ruling. I promise not to do this too often. Maybe.

PH34R MY l33t DRUNKEN POSTING! Image

Originally posted on: 10-Oct-2004, 02:22 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:24 pm

Soluzar wrote:Free peeks? You really do have a special relationship with the species known as Evangellion don't you, Reichu?

{EVANGELION} <----- :wub: :wub: <---- {Reichu!} :D

You have to respect devotion like this.


Image Special indeed it is, though, fortunately, not in the "Japanese fanboy and his life-size Rei replica" or "Shinji locked in room with comatose Asuka" or "Starmorpher and his Asuka pics" way.

Maybe.

Are you seriously trying to imply that Asuka is a sympathetic character? C'mon, Reichu, the girl is too rude to everyone she knows to get the heartfelt sympathy vote from me!

Well, er, I'm not exactly sure WHAT I was trying to imply, come to think of it... Asuka is a total biznatch, I'll grant her that. I'll sooner sympathize with her than with Rei, though.

No, I suppose not. And being the kind of guy who would crank one out over a comatose girl is totally not the same thing. Or is it? I know what teenage boys are like -- I was one! He was thinking how nice it would be to grab her from second one. Plus, he's got the whole forbidden oedipal thing going on! That's gotta be making him nutty as a fruitcake! : Image

One has to wonder why Anno decided to make Shinji deal with Oedipal issues, since Shinji is supposed to be his avatar... Is Anno making any sort of statements about his own twisted psyche? <gasp> I suppose, if nothing else, characters that have them are strangely fun to write for. (Speaking from personal experience here. Yes, I know I'm twisted. To make matters worse, the individuals involved are Kyoko-sama and her bastard love-child son. No, you probably don't want to know who the father is.)

I also wonder, how many teenage boys WOULD be sexually attracted to a hot teenage incarnation of their mom (not knowing that it is in fact their mom)? Shinji's position is an awfully complicated one, so I hesitate to judge him too harshly. It's evident that on some level, Rei seems familiar, reassuringly familiar, and whatever he is feeling could easily be confused with boy-girl attraction. That kind of stuff is really hard to sort out, after all: "This person makes me FEEL something, but what the hell is it?!?"

PS: I may (or may not) be posting while rather drunk, so please remember that this may (or may not) be just some random idiocy that popped into my addled mind late on a Saturday night.

Bloody Brits... Image

Originally posted on: 10-Oct-2004, 02:57 GMT

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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:24 pm

Reichu wrote:Image Special indeed it is, though, fortunately, not in the "Japanese fanboy and his life-size Rei replica" or "Shinji locked in room with comatose Asuka" or "Starmorpher and his Asuka pics" way.

I'm just imagining you watching the show for the same reasons a teenage boy might have watched Baywatch -- getting nosebleeds if you ever see one of the Evas with part of her armour off! I shouldn't poke fun, but it's too good of an image. Incidentally, I know the nosebleed thing is supposed to happen to guys only, but still it just seemed the appropriate funny motif, even though it doesn't quite fit.
Image

Reichu wrote:One has to wonder why Anno decided to make Shinji deal with Oedipal issues, since Shinji is supposed to be his avatar... Is Anno making any sort of statements about his own twisted psyche? I suppose, if nothing else, characters that have them are strangely fun to write for. (Speaking from personal experience here. Yes, I know I'm twisted. To make matters worse, the individuals involved are Kyoko-sama and her bastard love-child son. No, you probably don't want to know who the father is.)

I also wonder, how many teenage boys WOULD be sexually attracted to a hot teenage incarnation of their mom (not knowing that it is in fact their mom)? Shinji's position is an awfully complicated one, so I hesitate to judge him too harshly. It's evident that on some level, Rei seems familiar, reassuringly familiar, and whatever he is feeling could easily be confused with boy-girl attraction. That kind of stuff is really hard to sort out, after all: "This person makes me FEEL something, but what the hell is it?!?"

I'm sure that Freud would say that all of them would get a kick out of it, because if I recall correctly, the partners a lot of us seek out are supposed, in Freudian methodology, to remind us of the appropriate parent, for whom we have a repressed desire.


Reichu wrote:Bloody Brits... Image

Image That's me! Well, one of 'em anyway. :p

Originally posted on: 10-Oct-2004, 16:35 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:24 pm

Soluzar wrote:I'm just imagining you watching the show for the same reasons a teenage boy might have watched Baywatch -- getting nosebleeds if you ever see one of the Evas with part of her armour off!

Good thing that doesn't really happen; otherwise, my sketchbook might seem a lot more questionable than it already is. ("Err, Rachel, what are those dark stains?") But next time I have access to a digital camera, I'll have to take you up on this. Nothing beats poking fun at oneself, after all.

I'm sure that Freud would say that all of them would get a kick out of it, because if I recall correctly, the partners a lot of us seek out are supposed, in Freudian methodology, to remind us of the appropriate parent, for whom we have a repressed desire.

I personally think Freud takes thing a bit too far in saying that we all want to screw our opposite-sex parent. (Some people, maybe, but I can't speak for them.) On the other hand, the idea that many of us seek a partner similar to our mother or father seems to hold a bit more water. In the very least, one's relationship with one's opposite-sex parent seems to prognosticate, on some level, one's degree of success with the opposite sex later in life... If a woman had an abusive father, oftentimes she ends up with an abusive husband; a loving father, a loving husband -- the rule is not hard and fast, though. But I'm getting way off subject here.

It's interesting that Anno would give these issues to both of his self-appointed "main characters", as well. As we well know, Misato's attraction to Kaji is due to him reminding her of her father, to the point where he feels like her father "reborn". This is slightly less fux0red-up than Shinji's situation, but similar, nonetheless... Does Misato qualify for an Electra Complex?

Originally posted on: 10-Oct-2004, 17:03 GMT

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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:24 pm

Reichu wrote:It's interesting that Anno would give these issues to both of his self-appointed "main characters", as well. As we well know, Misato's attraction to Kaji is due to him reminding her of her father, to the point where he feels like her father "reborn". This is slightly less fux0red-up than Shinji's situation, but similar, nonetheless... Does Misato qualify for an Electra Complex?

It's part of my dark reason for fixation on Evangelion that Misato is so screwed up. I always find myself drawn to... complicated... girls, and Misato is in a lot of ways an example of this.

You know, how you convince yourself that all they are really looking for is someone to just treat them right! It's my favourite sort of character in fiction.

I should not be revealing myself so much on a public forum... I must be quite mad. Image

Originally posted on: 10-Oct-2004, 17:45 GMT

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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:24 pm

104/105 : the thing that struck me, apart from the implication that Misato's car was a hybrid, if not an outright electric (in addition to the automatic clutch mod noted earlier), was "where did they acquire those batteries from?"

170: Why is there wind blowing? My guess, as they're just emerging into that humungous shaft, is that the shaft is part of a ventilation system, possibly driven by natural convection, possibly forced. Or maybe there's just a train coming. Image

253: Three weeks earlier, Rei had been pulled out of an over-heated entry plug. I'm thinking scalding or burning injuries, so a plasma drip (rather than any product of the Big Conspiracy) would seem plausible here. Certainly she has barely-healed wounds (290) that could still have been oozing plasma into the dressings even before more physical trauma.

295: Perhaps the 89%-full figure is correct for the GeoFront - which means ten times the obvious volume, hidden below the surface (like an iceberg) in various vast chambers, including the one we see a lot later.

310: This really does look like an optical system starting up. I made the assumption that something in the headgear, the A-10 shunt, may well be feeding signal directly into the pilot's brain, and that this is the metaphor for the subjective effects, as the initial contact happens.

338: Part of the "LCL is liquid only when it suits the plot" - immersed in and part filled with water (plus unknown contaminants) the pilot would be pretty much floating, whether it's gravity or some other source of acceleration. Of course that means that most of the stress would be felt by internal organs not immediately supported by the cushioning fluid.

Originally posted on: 10-Oct-2004, 18:23 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:24 pm

Mr. Tines wrote:104/105 : the thing that struck me, apart from the implication that Misato's car was a hybrid, if not an outright electric (in addition to the automatic clutch mod noted earlier), was "where did they acquire those batteries from?"

According to the script, they were stolen. It's a pity that scene didn't make the script in any way. Misato using her authority to commit theft in a hurry would have been awfully funny.

170: Why is there wind blowing? My guess, as they're just emerging into that humungous shaft, is that the shaft is part of a ventilation system, possibly driven by natural convection, possibly forced. Or maybe there's just a train coming. Image

What was wrong with the idea about the change in air pressure, out of curiosity?

253: Three weeks earlier, Rei had been pulled out of an over-heated entry plug. I'm thinking scalding or burning injuries, so a plasma drip (rather than any product of the Big Conspiracy) would seem plausible here. Certainly she has barely-healed wounds (290) that could still have been oozing plasma into the dressings even before more physical trauma.

Ah, are plasma drips that color? That seems to hold a bit more water than the "LCL" idea. Considering Asuka had apparently cut herself in a major way before being "captured" and hospitalized, that she is hooked up to the same thing as Rei seems to make much sense.

295: Perhaps the 89%-full figure is correct for the GeoFront - which means ten times the obvious volume, hidden below the surface (like an iceberg) in various vast chambers, including the one we see a lot later.

Are you proposing that the various gi-normous sub-chambers (like in Terminal Dogma) were already excavated by the mysterious aliens?

310: This really does look like an optical system starting up. I made the assumption that something in the headgear, the A-10 shunt, may well be feeding signal directly into the pilot's brain, and that this is the metaphor for the subjective effects, as the initial contact happens.

But if signal is being fed into the pilot's brain, how do you explain the interior screens of the entry plug, with their zoom capability and pop-up windows? The pilot have to look at the screens to see what is outside; they are not seeing it by default. There are no "Ghost in the Shell"-style optics going on, either.

338: Part of the "LCL is liquid only when it suits the plot" - immersed in and part filled with water (plus unknown contaminants) the pilot would be pretty much floating, whether it's gravity or some other source of acceleration. Of course that means that most of the stress would be felt by internal organs not immediately supported by the cushioning fluid.

You could explain further how the above applies to the cut in question? I admit, I can be a bit dense sometimes. Image

Originally posted on: 10-Oct-2004, 19:59 GMT

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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:24 pm

Reichu wrote:According to the script, they were stolen. It's a pity that scene didn't make the script in any way. Misato using her authority to commit theft in a hurry would have been awfully funny.

Not so much a case of how acquired, but where it was that happened to have a suitable supply of batteries and wiring for Misato to liberate.

Reichu wrote:What was wrong with the idea about the change in air pressure, out of curiosity?

Nothing - any air motion like that implies that there is a pressure gradient, and the flow is trying to achieve an equilibrium. I was more wondering about the what caused the imbalance.

It might be that, like a clean room, some areas are kept under high pressure to stop outside environment leaking in. But in this particular case, a door has just opened onto what is in effect a chimney, which might just have air movement of its own. If there is equipment down below pumping out heat (perhaps the heat dumpt to the environment by the massive refrigeration units keeping the Evas in cryostasis?) a noticeable air movement would arise just as a side-effect.


Reichu wrote:Ah, are plasma drips that color? That seems to hold a bit more water than the "LCL" idea. Considering Asuka had apparently cut herself in a major way before being "captured" and hospitalized, that she is hooked up to the same thing as Rei seems to make much sense.

"Straw coloured" is the usual description of blood plasma. I think that may apply to plasma that still has platelets in (supplying clotting factors, amongst their other functions) rather than the pure serum.

In Asuka's case, if we are to interpret the bathwater's colour as resulting from her making an attempt to take the Roman way out, as opposed to just rusty plumbing, I would have expected whole blood in the short term, and then feeding by IV later. Those IV drips tend to be clear.

Reichu wrote:Are you proposing that the various gi-normous sub-chambers (like in Terminal Dogma) were already excavated by the mysterious aliens?

Yes; or rather "were already there when the GeoFront was first entered by humans after 2I", neatly dodging the "whodunnit" question. Not only does it save the 89% figure, but it also explains why Tokyo-3 isn't surrounded by massive spoil heaps (or land reclamation projects).


Reichu wrote:But if signal is being fed into the pilot's brain, how do you explain the interior screens of the entry plug, with their zoom capability and pop-up windows? The pilot have to look at the screens to see what is outside; they are not seeing it by default. There are no "Ghost in the Shell"-style optics going on, either.

If you're directly feeding an image into the optical cortex, then placing overlays on, or rescaling, the image is the easy bit.

Now it may just be old age creeping up on me, but I don't recall much in the way of normal cockpit instrumentation in any of the interior shots of the entry plugs, just the two control handles, so I would expect any instrumentation to be "soft" - the question is more where the "screen" is.

It does depend whether some of these Eva-internal scenes are interpreted as literally what a camera floating in the entry-plug would record; or whether they are a metaphorical painting of what the pilot would see for the benefit of the third-party watching the series (because a blank plug interior would be very boring for us). I tend to the latter approach, as it allows some of the inconsistencies to be handwaved away - and it also means that the level of synchronization is really that much more important.

Thinking on it, this is to some extent a testable hypothesis. There are a few scenes that I'm working on memory of: first, are the multiple FEHLER reports when Shinji is riding shotgun with Asuka confined to the normal wrap-wround screen area; second, do we see any external view when Asuka's failed to synch but has been sent up against the 16th Angel anyway; third when Shinji's synch ratio is cut for the dummy plug activation, what definite inside looking out views do we have.

Reichu wrote:You could explain further how the above applies to the cut in question? I admit, I can be a bit dense sometimes. Image

Shinji wouldn't have to bear quite as much strain if the LCL is blood-like liquid at the time - this is from a Nasa document (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/Hi...4201/ch2-4.htm)
recounting an early entry-plug acceleration type scenario:

In 1956, R. Flanagan Gray, a physician at the Johnsville laboratory, designed an aluminum centrifuge capsule that could be filled with water and was large enough to hold a man. After some initial troubles installing the contraption on the centrifuge and perfecting an emergency automatic flushing mechanism, the "Iron Maiden," as it was rather inaccurately nicknamed, went into use. In March 1958, Gray, immersed to his ribs in a bathtub-like device developed at the Mayo Clinic during the Second World War, had endured 16 g of headward (head to feet) acceleration. Then, the next year, Gray enclosed himself in the Iron Maiden and, positioned backward to the center of rotation and immersed in water above the top of his head, held his breath during the 25-second pattern to withstand a peak of 31 g transverse acceleration for five seconds. This performance with the water-filled aluminum capsule established a new record for tolerance of centrifuge g loads.



Originally posted on: 11-Oct-2004, 21:08 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:24 pm

Mr. Tines wrote:Not so much a case of how acquired, but where it was that happened to have a suitable supply of batteries and wiring for Misato to liberate.

They were driving on a highway; perhaps there was some kind of automobile facility on the way. It wouldn't have been too much trouble for her to commit theft, assuming they were inside the region for which evacuation had been declared at the beginning of the episode.

"Straw coloured" is the usual description of blood plasma. I think that may apply to plasma that still has platelets in (supplying clotting factors, amongst their other functions) rather than the pure serum.

In Asuka's case, if we are to interpret the bathwater's colour as resulting from her making an attempt to take the Roman way out, as opposed to just rusty plumbing, I would have expected whole blood in the short term, and then feeding by IV later. Those IV drips tend to be clear.

"The Roman way out"? Image The script doesn't seem to elaborate on what's in the tub, but Shin-seiki has been a rather avid advocate of the "suicide" idea. We'll debate that point when we get to it, though. Just out of curiosity, though, in your opinion, why would they be IVing Asuka blood plasma?

Yes; or rather "were already there when the GeoFront was first entered by humans after 2I", neatly dodging the "whodunnit" question. Not only does it save the 89% figure, but it also explains why Tokyo-3 isn't surrounded by massive spoil heaps (or land reclamation projects).

We are going to mention the aliens when #21 rolls around, since the only two clues in the series (as far as I know) pointing to them are in that episode. Since you seem to have made the 89% figure work, should we still include all of the math that you did in the commentary?

If you're directly feeding an image into the optical cortex, then placing overlays on, or rescaling, the image is the easy bit.

Hmm? How is this easy?

Now it may just be old age creeping up on me, but I don't recall much in the way of normal cockpit instrumentation in any of the interior shots of the entry plugs, just the two control handles, so I would expect any instrumentation to be "soft" - the question is more where the "screen" is.

What do you mean by "soft", specifically?

When I have a moment, I'm going to go and scavenge through the entire series to find all of the evidence pertaining to the entry plug interior visuals (and resurrect my old thread on the issue while I'm at it). Perhaps we'll be able to reach some kind of consensus on the issue, being as its such an annoying one.

Shinji wouldn't have to bear quite as much strain if the LCL is blood-like liquid at the time - this is from a Nasa document (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/Hi...4201/ch2-4.htm)
recounting an early entry-plug acceleration type scenario:

According to Dr. Nick's ideas, the LCL is supposed to automatically "liquify" to cushion the pilot at moments of great strain. (Least, if I remember correct) That it is not doing so here may well be one of those niggling oversights. Image

Originally posted on: 11-Oct-2004, 22:52 GMT

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Postby Hexon.Arq [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:24 pm

Is the repetition here a mistake?

No.

Are you saying that Shinji's reaction to the Geofront has more to do with getting out of an uncomfortable social situation than seeing a giant semi-spherical underground cavity straight out of a sci-fi film?

Maye a little from Column A, and a little from Column B. Image No, after actually watching this episode again, his astonishment seems genuine. My mistake.

The lake, you mean?

I always hesitate to call it a lake. Lakes, to me, tend to have a more natural appearance.

Why would there be blank pages in the book to begin with?

Image Notes maybe?

I think it depends on what kinds of acoustics one prefers. I tend to prefer studio recordings to ones of live performances, myself.

It's not just acoustics. The arrangements are almost completely different. As much as I love the music of Evangelion, I could never become quite fond of the tracks on the OSTs. Drums, electric bass, and honkey-tonk pianos are no match for symphonic rage.

While I think I have a vague idea of what you're referring to, I'm one of those evil heathens, so you'll have to explain to one to me.

You know, when God tells Moses to go free the Jews, and Moses says, "I can't. I don't know what to do." And then God says, "You will be instructed," or something like that. My aunt was all over that one. While the Father-Son dynamic there is not as solid as between Jehovah and Jesus, it sort of has the same feel to it.

“Longshoreman”?

“Maintaining the restraints” would presumably also involve replacing the armor when it gets busted, as with EVA-01's helmet in #02 and her pectoral plates in #06. In other words, they would get free peeks of the Evas from time to time.

I meant the walls. Their work might entail something similar to docking a cargo ship. It's a stretch, alright?

Heh, is this in response to my “suspiciously orange” comment?

Heh, yeah.

Speaking of which… Why is there even a sound effect for the eyes “turning off” and “on”? Realistically, they are just opening and closing, so I don't see how a sound effect befitting a large light switch would be appropriate.

The eye stand-ins you see might very well be electrical. Do giant humanoid monsters naturally have zoom vision?

Please explain (Dope Show) reference to Reichu!

It's of no consequence. Shots where nurses rush people on stretchers hurriedly often call to mind memories of similar depictions. This one, with Rei in her white plug suit, being rished through sterile, light-toned halls, evokes a laugh from me every time in that it reminds me of Marilyn Manson's "The Dope Show" video. (In fact, Rei tends to reminds me very much of the character Coma White from that album, though I've never been able to figure out why. In many respects, numerous aspects of Manson's work have sort of fused with my emotional and aesthetic impressions of Evangelion. More on that if I feel like it. Image )

Are you implying that Asuka is somehow an unsympathetic character?

You know what I mean. At this point, Rei is not quite Rei.

I'm not saying that you were being serious, but – episode #05's “fortuitous accident” nonwithstanding -- Shinji doesn't strike me as the kind of Typical Anime Pervert who would do that. He does crack under heavy, continuous pressure (see the beginning of #25', ahem-ahem), but otherwise he has a very refined sense of ‘decency' (not to mention he is incredibly shy). A lot of things are rolling through his head when he sees Rei, but making a deliberate attempt to “cop a feel” isn't one of them.

Yeah, I sorta wasn't serious. Image

“Get into the action! Get into the fun! Get into the romance! Get into… Evangelion!! Premiering this Friday at 9PM on the Anime Network!”

Christ, is that for real? : <

When the Evas are juxtaposed to Giant Naked Rei (who gets ridiculously huge once 3I starts), I suppose so. Otherwise, when is size a problem?

I was referring to Asuka's ***-kicking. Eva looks like she could step on the whole city... that used to be there, anyway.

Originally posted on: 11-Oct-2004, 23:48 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:25 pm

Hexon.Arq wrote:I always hesitate to call it a lake. Lakes, to me, tend to have a more natural appearance.

The script and production drawings refer to it as an "underground lake".

It's not just acoustics. The arrangements are almost completely different. As much as I love the music of Evangelion, I could never become quite fond of the tracks on the OSTs. Drums, electric bass, and honkey-tonk pianos are no match for symphonic rage.

I tried listening to the symphonic tracks in the past, but they just never never caught my ears, for some reason. Incidentally, I'm not too fond of the other "symphonic" + "Sagisu" mixture, the "Final Fantasy VI: Grand Finale" album. All boils down to inexplicable personal taste, I suppose.

I meant the walls. Their work might entail something similar to docking a cargo ship. It's a stretch, alright?

If the grunts in orange don't maintain the Evas' 'armor', then who the heck does? One of the missing numbers from #01 speaks of workers in the coolant, probably the same guys in scuba gear that we see reattaching EVA-02's head and arms in #20. In all honesty, I think these guys are the Evas' caretakers, as it were.

The eye stand-ins you see might very well be electrical. Do giant humanoid monsters naturally have zoom vision?

There's no indication that the Evas themselves have zoom vision; that comes courtesy of the cameras that apparently provide the cockpit visuals. As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm planning to tackle that issue aggressively as soon as possible.

Just to reiterate, here's what was already said in the commentary on the issue:

Reichu: The representation of the Evas' eyes as stylized white (or yellow, or red) slits has long been a pet peeve of mine. Realistically, you'd be able to see EVA-01's actual big, green eyes through the apertures in the helmet (unless shadow completely obscured them). Having the white slits = "eyes open", darkness = "eyes closed" doesn't really make much sense. The eyes only glow when the Evas go into 'overdrive', not when they're just sitting around in their Cages.

felineki: I had thought that perhaps the "slits" were actually lenses that covered the eyes (somewhat like the eyes on a traditional mecha), and one scene in the next episode seems to support this -- but many more go against it, so just forget I said anything. ::p

Reichu: Yamashita's work pretty much derails this idea, as well -- in particular, the painting of Shogouki's hand holding her helmet. While her design here is not the final one, it's damn close, and one can clearly see an opening for the eye.

The eye slits are obviously a matter of stylization -- they're not SUPPOSED to be a realistic representation. IMO, though, it would have been so much cooler to see this big green eye open up and stare at Shinji here. But either way, if I were Shinji I don't think I would have turned away so quickly.

Some examples I can think of offhand that seem to lend credence to the idea of the eye splits simply being "stylized stand-ins":

#02, when Sachiel pulverizes EVA-01's right eye, the slit vanishes:

Image Image Image

When EVA-02's helmet pops open, we see the eye slits and not her actual eyes:

Image

#18, EVA-03's "eyes" are depicted with blood vessels. Honestly, they might as well have just shown her eyes for what they really are.

Image

And, of course, in episode #19, EVA-01's beautiful green eyes (or swollen glowing ones) are visible, seeming to cement the idea that it really is just an aperture in the helmet and they just show the actual eyes when it suits their purposes. (Of course, there is also the nagging question of where the red "teeth" went, but we'll deal with that later.)

Image

Image

[quote]Christ, is that for real? : No. Image

I was referring to Asuka's ***-kicking. Eva looks like she could step on the whole city... that used to be there, anyway.

Hey! You mean Kyoko-sama and Asuka's ***-kicking. Evas tend not to roar and grunt when we have an ordinary pilot-in-control situation going on, after all.

The battle in #25' takes place in the Geofront, so there isn't supposed to be a city down there, just random buildings here and there. I don't recall seeing any indication that the Evas are diverging from their "default" 50-meter height.

Originally posted on: 12-Oct-2004, 00:52 GMT

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Postby Hexon.Arq [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:25 pm

The battle in #25' takes place in the Geofront, so there isn't supposed to be a city down there, just random buildings here and there. I don't recall seeing any indication that the Evas are diverging from their "default" 50-meter height.

There are no buildings, but there are hills and trees aplenty. Admittedly, those trees could be shrubs; it's been ages since I saw the movie.

And the dealie with the eyes makes sense. I suppose it's a lot like the cartoon version of Batman. Bruce Wayne's eyes are by no means big white triangles, but it makes him look more dramatic as Batman. Just for sanity's sake, we'll say that the click has nothing to do with the eyes closing, though it does sound an awful lot like the shutting-off of big halogen lamps.

Hey! You mean Kyoko-sama and Asuka's ***-kicking. Evas tend not to roar and grunt when we have an ordinary pilot-in-control situation going on, after all.

Naturally... Image

Originally posted on: 12-Oct-2004, 04:21 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:25 pm

Hexon.Arq wrote:There are no buildings, but there are hills and trees aplenty. Admittedly, those trees could be shrubs; it's been ages since I saw the movie.

No buildings, eh?

ImageImageImage

ImageImage Image

Kyoko-sama and the harpies seem to be the right size while they're duking it out on the Geofront. (There are production drawings that show how big an Eva is supposed to be relative to the pyramid and such, and this doesn't seem to be violated in EoE.) The trees are conifers, but, last I checked, not all conifers were towering giants... And you do have to remember, 50 meters is really quite tall.

And, hmm, speaking of production drawings, I have this one that DOES show the monorail connecting to the Subterminal, and a bunch of lines sprouting from it that go further underground. Apparently, the "railway"-style definition of "terminal" was the right one. I'll post some scans later.

And the dealie with the eyes makes sense. I suppose it's a lot like the cartoon version of Batman. Bruce Wayne's eyes are by no means big white triangles, but it makes him look more dramatic as Batman.

That's actually a good comparison, now that you mention it.

Just for sanity's sake, we'll say that the click has nothing to do with the eyes closing, though it does sound an awful lot like the shutting-off of big halogen lamps.

A lot of the sound effects associated with the Evas seem inappropriate upon closer scrutiny... Lots of mechanical buzzing and whirring as that seems entirely inconsistent with the Evas' organic nature. (Just off the top of my head, listen to EVA-01 when she lurches forward in #02 -- before bleeding all over the place -- and EVA-02 in #25' when she's getting ready to crack the first harpy open.) But their roaring is so cool, I can only complain so much.

Naturally... Image

Is that disbelief I smell...?

Originally posted on: 12-Oct-2004, 05:17 GMT

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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:25 pm

Reichu wrote:Just out of curiosity, though, in your opinion, why would they be IVing Asuka blood plasma?

If it's for maintaining someone in a coma, I'd think plasma would be unlikely, as opposed to IV feeding (glucose/saline solution), which is clear. We pass over the fact that the patient doesn't appear to be catheterized (fluid in, fluid out, you know) in 25' despite the IV drip.

Reichu wrote:We are going to mention the aliens when #21 rolls around, since the only two clues in the series (as far as I know) pointing to them are in that episode. Since you seem to have made the 89% figure work, should we still include all of the math that you did in the commentary?

Just add the rider "So there must be ten times as much void space that we don't see".


Reichu wrote:Hmm? How is this easy?

If you're able to feed a high quality image directly to someone's brain, that's the difficult part. Real-time videoprocessing to dress up the camera feed that you're feeding is old tech (1980s, LA Olympics, if not before, for TV quality images).

Reichu wrote:What do you mean by "soft", specifically?

As in software, appearing programmatically, on demand, like an aircraft HUD.

Originally posted on: 12-Oct-2004, 19:01 GMT

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Postby Hexon.Arq [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:25 pm

What I had in mind when I said that the Evas seem a lot larger in EoE was the part when Eva-02 wields the (I know there's a name for these) big blade. Something about the downward shots always seemed to make Eva look bigger than she should have been. Again, I don't have the movie, so the last time I saw it was about a year ago.

As for the "screen":

Image

It's an awkward reach, but you can see it.

Originally posted on: 13-Oct-2004, 00:46 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:25 pm

Hexon.Arq wrote:What I had in mind when I said that the Evas seem a lot larger in EoE was the part when Eva-02 wields the (I know there's a name for these) big blade.

The official name for that is "heavy lance/spear" (omoi yari). That's in the script, anyway. I think they've been called ken elsewhere.

Again, I don't have the movie, so the last time I saw it was about a year ago.

Goodness gracious! Definitely do yourself a favor and get a copy, by whatever "means" necessary. Image

As for the "screen":

Image

It's an awkward reach, but you can see it.

Does this image illustrate something that the show normally doesn't? I'm just wondering why you decided to post this pic specifically. My brain seems to be being dense again.

Originally posted on: 13-Oct-2004, 05:04 GMT

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Postby Hexon.Arq [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:25 pm

Does this image illustrate something that the show normally doesn't? I'm just wondering why you decided to post this pic specifically. My brain seems to be being dense again.

This was the only image I could think of where you can actually see just what's in front of the seat. (I don't have your plethora of thumbnails Image ) To quote Mr. Tines:

Now it may just be old age creeping up on me, but I don't recall much in the way of normal cockpit instrumentation in any of the interior shots of the entry plugs, just the two control handles, so I would expect any instrumentation to be "soft" - the question is more where the "screen" is.

Like I said, the reach is somewhat awkward, but there aren't that many instances where controls other than mind and hand come into use right in the heat of battle. At the very least, it might have a few gauges on it.

Originally posted on: 13-Oct-2004, 06:42 GMT

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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:25 pm

The results of rewatching the first DVD include spotting where I mis-remembered salient details, and providing some more quantitative data.

Mr. Tines wrote:338: Part of the "LCL is liquid only when it suits the plot" - immersed in and part filled with water (plus unknown contaminants) the pilot would be pretty much floating, whether it's gravity or some other source of acceleration. Of course that means that most of the stress would be felt by internal organs not immediately supported by the cushioning fluid.

Cut 337 shows about the launch covering about 2 Eva heights (100m) in well under a second - if we say 1/2 second for the time, that's an average velocity of 200 m/s, and an acceleration of 400 m/s^2 or 40g averaged out over the period. Taking the NASA figures quoted above, I guess Ikari-kun has a valid excuse for hurting, even with liquid LCL.

OTOH, that also means they're going faster than sound (330 m/s) at this point, and the air in the launch shaft just isn't going to be able to get out of the way!

Mr. Tines wrote:253: Three weeks earlier, Rei had been pulled out of an over-heated entry plug.

Checking the internal chronology, ep#3 states that over 2 weeks have already elapsed since the 3rd Angel was defeated; and then some more days pass; and it's episode 5 that states "22 days previously" - so when we first see Rei, only hours can have passed since the Eva-00 activation failure, so would definitely be receiving acute care.

---

Ep#3 also casts more light on the cabin instrumentation, so I'll wait until that's up before saying any more on that subject.

Originally posted on: 13-Oct-2004, 22:41 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:25 pm

Misato states that she's been in town for a couple days in #02, and Rei's accident occured before she arrived, since she doesn't know the details of what happened, so I'd say Rei was in the hospital at least 72 hours, if not more, when we see her in #01. Perhaps the fact that Rei was hors de combat, and Unit 00 out of commission, was the actual reason that Shinji was abruptly summoned to Tokyo 3, tho honestly, Gendo and Fuyutsuki had to know that they would need him eventually, so why wasn't Shinji at NERV already?

Originally posted on: 14-Oct-2004, 03:29 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:25 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:Perhaps the fact that Rei was hors de combat, and Unit 00 out of commission, was the actual reason that Shinji was abruptly summoned to Tokyo 3, tho honestly, Gendo and Fuyutsuki had to know that they would need him eventually, so why wasn't Shinji at NERV already?

Didn't we cover that one at the beginning of the episode #01 thread?

I've heard that there were actually problems with the "22 days ago" statistic, which is why Sadamoto changed it to 32 days in the manga. I forget the reasoning proposed behind the change, though.

Another question worth asking is why the hell they waited so long to conduct the synchronization experiment between Rei and EVA-00...

Tines-san, what do you mean by "cabin instrumentation"?

Originally posted on: 14-Oct-2004, 06:30 GMT


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